asked the Minister for Industry and Commerce the name of the firm of auditors which certified to him the accounts of the Equitable Insurance Company Limited.
24.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Equitable Insurance Company Limited.
23.
Mr. Belton
asked the Minister for Industry and Commerce whether he is aware that the Equitable Insurance Company Limited, which is a small company, have about 80 per cent or 90 per cent of their risks reinsured with other insurance companies; whether the companies which underwrote the risks can be held liable for meeting policies of the Equitable Insurance Company Limited; and what steps he can take to see that such companies meet their liabilities in respect of such policies.
25.
asked the Minister for Industry and Commerce whether he is aware of disquiet amongst the public in relation to the insolvency of the Equitable Insurance Company Limited; and whether any steps are contemplated to secure greater protection for the public against losses such as are likely to occur in this case.
26.
asked the Minister for Industry and Commerce if in view of the public concern any amendment of the law relating to the control of insurance companies is contemplated; and, if so, when it may be expected.
I propose, with the permission of An Ceann Comhairle, to take Questions Nos. 23, 24, 25 and 26 together.
The name of the firm of auditors may be ascertained at the Companies Registration Office.
The balance sheets of insurance companies show amounts due from and amounts due to re-insuring companies. The question of set off of these amounts is a complicated legal matter which will fall to be determined by the court.
I am prepared to consider any suggestions for the amendment of the law to afford better protection to the insuring public but until the liquidation of the Equitable Insurance Company has reached a more advanced stage it may not be possible to say what amendment of the law may be necessary to prevent a recurrence of what has happened in this case.
Is the Minister aware that, during the period when this company were seeking from him an extension of time to submit the required documents and while the request in that connection was under consideration, they were also receiving premiums from persons to insure cars and other goods for the ensuing 12 months, although it must have been obvious to them at the time that they were insolvent and unable to pay? Would the Minister say whether he proposes to take any steps in respect of these people, who innocently continued to pay their premiums to the company, because it was still functioning, and who found only after the company had been granted an extension of time that the company was not, in fact, solvent when it was receiving their money?
It is possible, and even likely, that the company did know they were no longer solvent when they accepted premiums during the extension period.
In regard to the second part of the Deputy's supplementary, I propose discussing with the other Irish insurance companies the possibility of providing assistance in hardship cases.
Is any legal action contemplated in this case, in view of the fact that they obtained money by false pretences? Although they were insolvent, they continued to take in people's money. Surely that is fraud? Surely criminal proceedings should be considered in such a case?
As the House is aware, I stated last week that this matter is now being dealt with by the High Court as a result of a petition made by me for the compulsory liquidation of the company concerned. I take it, therefore, that any necessary legal action will be taken under the jurisdiction and orders of the court.
Could the Minister say whether it is possible in the case of really needy people—people who were badly stung by this company—to give them a refund of the contributions they paid at least during the period when this company was clearly under a very dark cloud?
I cannot say if a refund of the premium can be made. That would be a matter for the liquidator and the court.
The Minister said he was going to consult with the Irish companies to see whether or not they would provide assistance. Does he intend to consult with the British-based companies towards the same end?
Not at this stage.
Why not?
Could the Minister tell us whether the discussions he has in contemplation with other companies will be directed to protecting the interests of innocent third parties, particularly those who have claims against their employers under the Workmen's Compensation Act and where the employer is bankrupted by his failure to have indemnity from his insurance company, with the resultant danger that the insured person will be unable to recover the compensation awarded to him by the court on account of the inadequacy of the assets available to his employer?
I have these cases particularly in mind in connection with these discussions.
Mr. Belton
In the case of the Equitable Insurance Company, would they not re-insure with other insurance companies to the extent of 80 per cent of the original premiums? Where that is accepted, they are automatically in insurance. That company surely should carry 80 per cent of the risk by the insurer originally because they cannot give back money they have already accepted as insurance——
That is not a question.
As I said, that will be a matter that will fall for determination by the court.
Is it not very important that the confidence of the Irish people should be restored in Irish insurance companies?
We are keeping that in mind.
Does the Minister intend to take any action in the type of insurance mentioned by Deputy Dillon? I am sure the Minister is aware that a number of employers are unable to meet the demands made on them and consequently the workers have to do without their money. In other cases to meet the demands was a bit too much for the employers——
Would the Deputy ask a question?
That is a question.
It is a statement.
It is a question, Sir, because the House is well aware that the Minister has responsibility to the people in this matter. He allowed this particular company six months to gather in premiums——
The Deputy is not asking a question. He must put a question to the Minister.
What action does the Minister propose to take so far as workmen's compensation is concerned?
I have answered that question in reply to Deputy Dillon's supplementary question.
Does the Minister propose——
I shall allow no more questions on this.
The Ceann Comhairle is only leaving himself open to more trouble, in that case.