asked the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries if he is aware that the United Kingdom's average price for fat cattle on 16th October was 164s 2d per cwt; and that on 19th October the average price on the Dublin Market, as worked out by the Central Statistics Office, was 122s 3d per cwt; and, if so, if he will give the reason for this difference.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Fat Cattle Prices.
19.
The United Kingdom estimated average price of 164/2d per cwt. liveweight for fat cattle, inclusive of guarantee payment, for the week ended 16th October covers considerable variations between prices in different parts of the UK. For example, while the average for Scotland was 178/2d per cwt the average for Northern Ireland was 144/11d per cwt. Moreover, the United Kingdom prices quoted relate only to cattle of a standard eligible for guarantee payments under the Fatstock Guarantee Scheme. The average price of 124/6d per cwt liveweight at Dublin Cattle Market in the same week relates to fat cattle of all qualities and types. Further factors affecting the difference between the Irish price and the average price in the United Kingdom are transport and other export costs from here to British markets and the fact that in periods of heavy supplies and weak demand, imports are affected more than home production.
Does the Minister say that it is right that there should be a difference of 42/- between the price here and the price in England?
It is not a real difference.
Does he account, or try to account, for that by transport costs?
It is not a real difference of 42/-.
It is only the Minister who thinks that.
No.
Everybody else feels that the real difference should be, at most, £1.
In the past, the only difference between the two prices was from 17/- to 20/-. Yet, with the present prices, with the subsidy you are paying, the exporter could buy beef and could get £2 2s 2d per cwt on a 12 cwt beast, plus the subsidy you are giving.
I do not give them any subsidy.
Is the Minister aware that the farmers are not getting the advantages of this and that the exporter can and is earning a huge profit? Does he not agree that in the past the variation was never more than 17/- to 20/- per cwt?
The Deputy does not understand the first thing about it.
The Minister does not seem to understand anything about it.
Will the Minister come down to brass tacks on this and say if this is an equitable difference and if there are not more reasons than the reasons he has given today?
I have given the full reason. The Dublin cattle market price relates to fat cattle of all sorts, irrespective of quality and type. The British guaranteed average price quoted relates exclusively to cattle of a certain standard and quality which qualify for the guaranteed payment. Inside Britain there is a bigger variation between what is paid for certain types of cattle in different areas and the guaranteed price than there is between us and Great Britain.
The Minister knows that the only difference that exists is the fact that in Ireland cows are included but it is such a small percentage of the total as to have no effect.
The Deputy is all wrong. I have discussed this closely and in great detail with officials of the British Ministry of Agriculture. It is a complex situation and not too easy to understand. I want to make this point to the Deputy, if he is interested to know the real situation. There is a greater difference between the top and the bottom prices in the United Kingdom than there is between our average and the United Kingdom.
Why?
Because of fluctuations in quality and in the supply and demand situation in the different areas in Britain.
Surely an average is an average?
The average in Britain taken for the purposes of the guaranteed payment scheme is for a special type of animal.
What is that special type?
The standard of quality that qualifies for the guaranteed payments scheme. It includes as components top quality Aberdeen-Angus beef in Scotland, which commands the highest price, and also barley-fed beef. These are the ones that give this high price in Great Britain whereas our local cattle market price is an average of all types.
The standard that would qualify for a subsidy is too high.
This is developing into a debate and I cannot allow any more questions.
The only thing I am saying is that it is a mistake to think that the average as determined for the purpose of the British guaranteed payments system is anything like a constant price throughout Great Britain.