Vol. 241 No. 10
asked the Minister for Education whether he is aware that the operation of a means test in relation to secondary education for Protestant children has resulted in many such children being refused free secondary education; and whether he will take steps to end the operation of such means test and thus ensure equality in this respect for all children within the Republic.
296.
asked the Minister for Education if he is satisfied that the current means test system of the assessment of entitlement of Protestant children to free secondary education is fair and equitable; and if he will make a statement on the apparent anomalies in this scheme.
With your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 295 and 296 together. The general scheme of free education was introduced and continues to be operated on the basis of schools which in return for a certain subvention from the State were prepared to abolish school fees. On this basis very few of the schools under Protestant management would have been able to enter the scheme.
Accordingly, with a view to meeting their special problem, the Government made available a block grant to the Commission for Protestant secondary schools, who agreed to be responsible for the distribution of the moneys to those Protestant pupils most in need of assistance. The only way by which this aim could be achieved was through the operation of a means test. I am satisfied that the members of the Commission have operated the means test fairly and equitably.
I may add that the block grant for Protestant pupils has been increased considerably this year and on a per capita basis has been and continues to be far higher than that available to the other schools which entered the general scheme.
While the Minister has stated accurately what the position is, would he not agree that the end result of the arrangement made is that, in fact, Protestant families under the operation of the means test do not get free secondary education and, to the extent that they do not, there is as a result an apparent difference between the treatment accorded to them and that accorded to children of other families in the State? Would the Minister not agree that in these circumstances it is a bit ridiculous to say that we are providing free secondary education when in fact we are not? The means test is operating and by reason of its operation many children in Dublin city and elsewhere are not accorded free secondary education? Does the Minister not feel that this matter could be re-examined?
In some instances it is true that Protestant children are not getting free education. It is also true, of course, that there are certain instances where Catholic children are not getting free education either.
It is a matter of choice.
To a certain extent. We have improved the grant very considerably in relation to Protestant boarding schools. As I mentioned in my original reply, this scheme was operated on the basis of schools, and free education was made available through the schools accepting a certain sum of money. For obvious reasons it was impossible for the Protestant community to do this and, therefore, we went a very considerable distance to meet them. As I say, particularly in relation to boarding schools we have increased the grant very considerably. It is very much higher than for Catholic schools. We have also recently made a school transport system available which will be of very great help to them.
Can the Minister indicate what is the lump sum? What is the difference involved?
It is considerable.
While appreciating the Minister's efforts to ensure that no imbalance develops, nevertheless would he not agree that the general principle seems quite questionable? It certainly seems unsatisfactory to a number of parents in my constituency. As Deputy O'Higgins has pointed out, the net result is that for some Protestant families there is free secondary education and for others there is not? Would he not consider, conscious as we are of the efforts he has made in this direction and the large amount of money involved, that perhaps in consultation with the interests concerned he might further review this system or at least keep it under sharp annual review? It appears now that certain anomalies have developed. I certainly would not wish that this should develop into a purely political atmosphere as in the case of the rationalisation of some schools.
I can tell the Deputy that I have been in consultations very recently with a deputation from the Protestant community.
From the parents?
I could not say. They were led by a bishop and I expect some of them represented parents but I cannot be certain of that. I discussed this whole matter with them. We made some further concessions. The matter is kept under review. I would not like it to go out from here that we are not giving very favourable treatment to Protestants. If the Deputies wish I can send them the full information in relation to the scheme.
I would be glad to receive it.
297.
asked the Minister for Education if he will make a statement concerning the application of the Cork Protestant Parents' Association for a comprehensive school for Protestant children in Cork.
I am not satisfied that, having regard to the continued existence of Midleton and Bandon schools, sufficient numbers would be available to justify at present the provision of a State comprehensive school for Protestant pupils in Cork city. The number of new entrants to the two schools in Cork city this year was 59.
I consider that the best course to take is to proceed with the amalgamation of Rochelle and Cork Grammar schools, without prejudice to the issue of whether the school will be comprehensive. The maximum state assistance will be forthcoming towards the cost of the necessary school building work.
An opportunity will be afforded of reviewing the position later on and accepting the amalgamated school as a comprehensive school, should the numbers warrant its recognition.
