asked the Minister for Justice the mileage recorded in respect of journeys by each member of the Government and Parliamentary Secretaries in State vehicles in the financial year ended 31st March 1974 or the nearest 12-month period for which figures are available.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - State Cars.
89.
The answer is in the form of a tabular statement which, with the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, I propose to have circulated with the Official Report.
Following is the statement:
Mileage recorded in official vehicles allocated to each member of the Government and each Parliamentary Secretary in the year ended 31st March, 1974.
|
Member |
Mileage |
|
An Taoiseach |
33,544 |
|
An Tánaiste |
35,692 |
|
Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries |
32,755 |
|
Minister for Defence |
50,175 |
|
Minister for Education |
36,891 |
|
Minister for Finance and the Public Service |
34,168 |
|
Minister for Foreign Affairs |
22,881 |
|
Minister for the Gaeltacht |
53,176 |
|
Minister for Industry and Commerce |
50,783 |
|
Minister for Justice |
53,222 |
|
Minister for Labour |
35,499 |
|
Minister for Lands |
36,344 |
|
Minister for Local Government |
52,147 |
|
Minister for Post and Telegraphs |
47,119 |
|
Minister for Transport and Power |
36,773 |
|
Parliamentary Secretary to the Taoiseach |
22,681 |
|
Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries |
51,267 |
|
Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Education |
35,421 |
|
Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Finance |
37,338 |
|
Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Health |
45,111 |
|
Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Local Government |
50,118 |
|
Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Social Welfare |
24,993 |
Is it possible for the Minister to tell the House the total involved?
I am afraid the individual mileages have not been totalled in the information given to me.
90.
asked the Minister for Justice the cost of providing vehicles and drivers in respect of each member of the Government and Parliamentary Secretary for the year ended 31st March, 1974.
Any attempt to work out costings in respect of individual Ministers and Parliamentary Secretaries would present considerable difficulties especially as certain overheads, such as the cost of relief drivers, would have to be assigned on an arbitrary basis.
An analysis made last November, based on costs obtaining at that time and on the average mileage then being done, indicated that the total annual cost in respect of the 22 persons referred to in the question was £89,400 in respect of the provision of the cars, £93,400 in respect of Garda pay, £75,900 in respect of Garda allowances, including overtime, plus an element of about £25,000 towards Garda pensions. Some of the costs involved have increased since the analysis was made but these increases have been offset to some extent by the fact that the mileage currently being done is somewhat lower than that used for the purpose of the analysis.
The reply to a question put down by Deputy Barry Desmond in March, 1973, included figures of £72,500 in respect of the cost of the provision of cars and £45,000 in respect of allowances paid to drivers of ministerial transport. I now understand that these figures were incorrectly calculated and should have been £83,500 and £75,000 respectively. I apologise to the Deputy and to the House for the error.
Is the Minister saying there is no accurate estimate or knowledge of the cost of providing each Minister and Parliamentary Secretary with a State car and driver? Is the Minister only offering the House an estimate, which may or may not be correct?
I am not offering the House an estimate. In relation to the individual costings, this would present considerable difficulties because certain overheads, such as the cost of relief drivers, would have to be assigned on an arbitrary basis. They could not be assigned specifically to an individual Minister. Consequently, what I am telling the House is the result based on an analysis made last November of the costs obtaining at that time which indicated the total annual cost. It is not an estimate.
Surely each State driver records in the Garda depot at the Phoenix Park the hours on duty when driving a State car? The mileages must be recorded on the mileage meters in the cars. Surely the Minister is not telling the House it is not possible to assess exactly the amount it costs to provide each Minister and Parliamentary Secretary with a car?
No, I am not telling the House it is not possible. If the Deputy listened to what I said he would have heard me say that to do that would present considerable difficulties because there are certain overheads, such as the cost of relief drivers. Relief drivers are engaged from time to time on an arbitrary basis, depending on where the need arises. It might be more in relation to one Minister because of the illness or absence of his driver. It would be a matter of considerable complexity to work out in accurate detail to the last penny the information the Deputy seeks.
Is the Minister saying this will never be worked out because it is deemed to be too complex?
I am not saying it will never be worked out. I have given the Deputy the information in regard to the costs involved for the 22 persons referred to in the question. That total can be divided by 22 and the Deputy will get a pretty accurate figure of the cost per individual. It will not be precisely accurate because there are certain variable overheads which, if taken into account in making the calculation for each individual car, would be an inordinately expensive and time wasting exercise.
If I were to repeat the question in four weeks' time, would the Minister then be able to supply this House with the specific information requested?
It is a pity the Deputy did not think of that four years ago.
Possibly I could, but I would suggest to the Deputy that to ask for the resources needed to be allocated to getting out that information for him would be unreasonable.
The Chair is of the opinion that enough mileage has been given to Question No. 90 and we should move on to Question No. 91.
I do not accept that my request is at all unreasonable and I am giving the Minister notice now that this question will reappear in four weeks' time and I will expect to get the information then.
It is a matter for the Deputy how much of Question Time he wants to waste.
There is no rush about it. We will be here for a long time.
That is, if you are there in four weeks' time.