asked the Minister for Local Government if he is satisfied that the system of selecting builders by the NBA for the provision of local authority houses at Athy and Kilberry, County Kildare, conforms to the system of competitive tendering which his Department normally requires; and whether the agreed price in both these schemes is too high.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - County Kildare Housing.
20.
I am satisfied that the contracts for these schemes were awarded in accordance with well-established and generally accepted tendering practice. These schemes are being carried out at the request of the housing authority by the National Building Agency under the Government's emergency supplementary housing programme. Because of the emergency nature of the programme and because it was intended to supplement the resources normally available to local authorities for the building of houses, the procedure adopted in this programme was a selective tendering procedure which complies fully with current EEC Directives on the award of public works contracts. The agency advertised the programme extensively in May, 1973, and on a Community wide basis, for contractors willing to take part in it. A short list was then prepared of contractors who were accepted to carry out work under the programme. This list has been used by the agency for the selection of three contractors to submit tenders for each scheme, in consultation with the housing authority. The contracts for the Athy and Kilberry schemes were awarded on this basis to the tenderer who submitted the lowest quotation.
I am advised that the prices in the accepted tenders were fully competitive, and generally in line with the costs of comparable local authority houses in the area.
Would the Minister not agree that selective rather than competitive tendering was sought in the building of these houses and that genuinely good builders within the county who had done work for the local authority were never asked or allowed to tender and that this system has now developed into a closed shop? If I tell the Minister I am confident that the houses were £500 dearer per house and that other builders were building, and would be prepared to build, these houses in Kildare, does he not think it is time he should institute an investigation into this matter?
That is a long question, Deputy. I am anxious to help the Deputy.
There is a lot of money involved when you consider that there is £16,000 involved in this scheme in Kilberry alone. Does the Minister not feel it is time to put a stop to this practice? Should he not institute an investigation immediately?
I want to make it very clear that, while I am aware Deputy Power is genuinely interested, there is no question of anything being wrong with what happened. In fact, the Kildare county manager asked the NBA to take on the schemes because at the time local contractors were overloaded with work and he particularly asked the NBA not to poach his contractors. Previously contractors were asked to have their names listed on the list which was being prepared. This was publicised widely so that contractors could be given the opportunity of participating in this type of selective tendering.
Far from what Deputy Power says about the price being wrong, the most recent comparative ordinary price for housing in Kildare is £6.58 per sq. ft. while the two tenders talked about are £6.54 and £6.14 for Kilberry. While, on the face of it, it might appear to those who did not know as if something peculiar had happened, in fact it was quite above board. What happened was in the best interest of the people waiting for the houses, of Kildare County Council and of the ratepayers. Another scheme is coming up now and it is being put up for general contract, because the people involved in these schemes at local level are no longer so involved. There is nothing peculiar about it. I think a good job was done.
I should like to impress on the Minister, if I can, that the present price per house in the contract for Kilberry is £500 dearer than the house could and should be built for?
That is not correct.
I am positive I am right.
We cannot have an argument about it today. Question No. 21.
The Minister claims he is right, but I am confident I am right.
This is Question Time, Deputy. The Deputy is imparting information rather than seeking it.
I hope the Minister will not just dismiss this as being something not worthy of his consideration. I ask the Minister to investigate this.
I have had it investigated following Deputy Power's question, because he usually puts down a reasonable question. For the Deputy's information may I repeat that the up to date figure for this type of housing in Kildare is £6.58 per sq. ft. and the one he is complaining about particularly, Kilberry, is £6.14 per sq. ft. Where could there be a loss of £16,000?
We never built a house in Kildare like the houses now being built.
I am using the county council's information.
The officials in Kildare are worried; maybe the Minister is not.
The officials in Kildare have given me this information and say they are perfectly satisfied. Therefore, they are not worried.
Could I ask the Minister if the square footage costs for the houses constructed by the NBA quoted by him includes the 5 per cent payable by the local authority to the NBA for the services provided by them?
I am sorry I cannot give Deputy Molloy that information but I would imagine that the figure here is an all-in cost.
Does the Minister consider that the position which obtains where the NBA provide the service for the local authority could be considered duplication, since the services provided could be undertaken by the officials employed by the local authorities?
The Chair is passing on from this question. We have already dwelt on it too long.
As Deputy Molloy knows, this was done in his time and a very bad job was produced as a result, because nobody carried responsibility for the supervision.