asked the Minister for the Environment if, prior to granting approval for the new buildings proposed for the Wood Quay sites in Dublin, the Government had access to detailed costings and specifications of the proposed council offices.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Wood Quay (Dublin) Site.
21.
Ministerial approval was sought in respect of this project under a number of heads.
The corporation acquired the site for civic offices by compulsory purchase order, and this was confirmed by the Minister for Local Government in 1964. This decision related solely to the intended use of the site and no details of the offices proposed were required.
Subsequently the corporation issued an invitation to developers to submit proposals for the construction—including its financing—of the offices. The proposals would have to relate to a corporation brief which required developers to take account of the architectural and environmental characteristics of the site. A number of proposals were developed and six firms were invited to submit detailed architectural and financial proposals. These were assessed by a special board of assessors and one firm was adjudged the best. This firm then submitted the proposal for formal planning permission to the corporation. It was granted, but appeals were lodged against it by a number of third parties. The appeal then lay to the Minister for Local Government. In connection with the appeal, which related to various planning considerations, the information furnished included a copy of the brief prepared for the corporation by the developers, a copy of the report by the city manager on the recommendations of the assessors, and detailed plans and specifications including a model of the proposed development; the city manager's report included comments on the financial implications. The Minister granted permission, subject to conditions, in 1972.
The firm which had put up this proposal was unable to follow through on its financing proposals, which had provided for a lease of the property to the corporation with an option to them to purchase. The corporation then decided to proceed with the scheme themselves.
No specific State grant or subsidy is payable towards schemes for local authority offices and local authorities are therefore not subject to any State sanction in regard to them except in so far as they may decide to finance a scheme by way of a loan, to which ministerial sanction is required. In examining an application for sanction to a loan in such a case, it is not the practice to go into detailed costings and specifications but rather to consider the overall need for the scheme and its general financial implications. Sanction to the corporation's borrowing proposal issued from the Minister for Local Government on 19th April, 1973. The proposal involved the raising of a bridging loan to finance the full scheme, on the basis that long-term loan arrangements would be settled after the bridging period of seven years.
Subsequently, in November, 1973, the Government of the time considered that the use of the site for civic offices should be reappraised having regard to various planning and archaeological considerations. The corporation was asked for a full report accordingly, and in the subsequent examination an amended layout was submitted by the corporation providing for a redistribution of the office buildings. Following consideration of the subject by the Government in 1974, the corporation were advised in February, 1974, that there would be no objection to the amended scheme proceeding. The report submitted on this occasion did not involve detailed costings and specifications.
In April, 1977, the corporation submitted revised loan proposals, taking account of the substantial increase in costs that had occurred since 1973. They now proposed to undertake the scheme in phases, and for the first phase proposed the borrowing of a sum over a period to 1980, the borrowing to be repaid in the period 1981 to 1984 out of revenue. As in the case of the previous loan proposed, it was not necessary to go into detailed costings and specifications. The sanction of the Minister for Local Government issued on 11th May, 1977.
22.
asked the Minister for the Environment if he will consider recommending to Dublin Corporation to take steps to preserve the archaeological remains of the medieval town at Wood Quay.
Dublin Corporation have available to them the advice and assistance of the National Museum and, as disclosed in the recent proceedings in the High Court, have been acting in a responsible manner in relation to the Wood Quay site. As matters stand, it is for the corporation to decide to what extent preservation of features is practical and desirable and, at this stage, I do not consider it necessary that I should make any recommendations.
Has the Minister power to make a recommendation? Has he authority to override the corporation decision in a matter of this kind?
It is primarily for the corporation, as owners of the site, to decide if this is so and, accordingly, whether the feature is worth preserving or not. The National Monuments Act, 1930, defines a national monument as a monument or remains of a monument the preservation of which is a matter of national importance by reason of historic, architectural, traditional, artistic or archaeological interest attaching thereto. Section 12 requires the local authority, the owner of such monuments, to maintain it, irrespective of whether the monument is being listed as a national monument by the Commissioners of Public Works. I should add that the commissioners have over-riding power.
The Minister has no power at all?
The commissioners have over-riding power, not the Minister.
Why would the corporation have to submit their plans to the Minister?
Only for the sanction of a loan.
On this point which has raised a lot of concern within the Dublin area, have the Department at any stage communicated to the corporation their attitude on the necessity to preserve the archaeological remains on the site, those which have been found and the possible new finds which might exist there? Has there been any formal communication from the Minister's Department since he became Minister?
I recall one communication. I am speaking from memory. I think it had to do with whether everybody was satisfied the archaeological site was being protected. That is as I recall it.
Was an inquiry ever made to the corporation from the Department?
Those are separate questions.
I cannot be definite speaking from memory, but there was an inquiry at some level.
Would the Minister agree to exercise the not unsubstantial influence he would have with the powers that be to ensure that the wishes of the Dublin City Council and the Dublin City Manager with respect to this site are carried out, that is, that every last spoonful of worthwhile material would be excavated before any destructive building could be carried out? Will he take the initiative in expressing his will in this matter?
Since the National Museum are involved I would think the Department of Education would be involved as well as the Department of the Environment.
I will ask the Minister for Education about it, but will the Minister do his bit?
Can these bodies influence the corporation if the corporation decide to go ahead? Can the commissioners prevent the corporation from going ahead?
As I have said, the corporation——
The corporation have the final word?
The commissioners have over-riding power.
Over the corporation?
The Commissioners of Public Works have over-riding power. They may make a preservation order under section 3 of the 1954 National Monuments (Amendment) Act whereby they would undertake the preservation of the monument.
Will the Minister take an initiative with the corporation?
I have not got the over-riding power.
I know that, but as a concerned Minister?
Question No. 23.