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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 14 Feb 1978

Vol. 303 No. 7

Financial Statement, 1978: Motion (Resumed).

Debate resumed on the following motion:
That Dáil Éireann takes note of the Financial Statement made by the Minister for Finance on 1 February 1978.
—(The Taoiseach).

When speaking on the budget last Thursday I made the initial point that the budget was cohesive, courageous and imaginative. It is putting fairly and squarely to the people a situation where they can improve themselves and the country. The magnitude of the budget was mentioned and, in particular, the sophisticated means by which it can be implemented. Among those I mentioned were the various banking activities and the terms of business that were influenced by the different Governments as to how the banks conducted their business. I made a plea that the running overdraft be restored. The abolition of that facility to the business and farming community was a retrograde step. In the present circumstances it would help the budgetary requirements if it were reintroduced.

I pay tribute to the activities of the banks in their ability to introduce foreign capital here for the benefit of the people as a whole. I also made a plea that the declaration of the £70 interest in the implementation of that policy would be a positive step forward. Undoubtedly the budget is promoting a positive encouragement of industry and in this context the semi-State bodies, with their access to large amounts of capital and their ability to use it, should be used to the maximum. These companies have within them entrepreneurial ability of a very high order but occasionally this ability is not utilised to its full extent or to the extent hoped for in a budget of this kind. I suggest that the typing of this ability to a narrow concept of just providing jobs might not be in the best interests of attaining the budgetary goals. I would suggest that if some of these companies have middle and top management—and they undoubtedly have such people— who are capable of using foreign capital and even foreign labour they should be allowed to do so in order that every facet of our national ability may be utilised for the benefit of all. For instance, I suggest that the buying of hotels abroad and staffing them is a worth-while contribution towards the budgetary aims. I suggest also that Irish shipping should not be tied down so tightly that they must use 100 per cent Irish materials and labour if there is a market in a far-off place that can be used for the generation of capital. If middle and top management is capable of benefiting the country perhaps by unorthodox methods, they should be given the go-ahead and allowed to do so. In certain circumstances it might be necessary and it would be to the benefit of the country.

The whole aim of the budget has been towards job creation and wealth creation, coupled with a strong social bias towards a situation where people can help themselves. The situation here so far as health is concerned is that a health policy that is openended is bound to fail. The aim of this budget where situations are created in which people can help themselves is much more practical than telling the people we will give them what they want. It is much more practical that people should be in a position to pay their own bills and look after themselves rather than having to depend on the State to do it for them. The budget is a practical step towards that direction and is worthy of support. Practical solutions of this type are much more realistic than empty formulae that may be based on foreign ideological ideas that are totally irrelevant to this country.

In this context the abolition of wealth tax has removed the doctrinaire bogey from the back of every businessman, farmer and fisherman. Its retention always carried the fear of the lowering of the threshold and if the previous Government had their way all of us would be paying this tax. There is no doubt that the wealth tax was totally unsuited to a country drastically in need of establishing new businesses and expanding existing enterprises. Therefore, its effect was one of stagnation and it was a typical example of doctrinaire legislation enacted to satisfy empty egos with no regard whatever for the good of the country.

The mild restructuring of farmer taxation must be constructive in its effect. This restructuring must encourage farmers to keep books and to conduct their businesses on a more businesslike and budgetary-conscious basis. In turn, it must have an enervating effect on farm business. In this context it must be said that no longer can the finger be pointed at farmers or the farming community to suggest that they are not meeting their obligations with regard to financing the machinery of State. Therefore, hopefully, we can expect that the climate of urban-rural misunderstanding or even animosity that the previous Government allowed to develop will be removed. In some cases farmers are paying more than their fair share of taxation, in the case of low taxation and high rates. I suggest that occasionally a rate burden may be heavier than an income tax ability. I have no doubt the farmers will rise to the occasion. Agriculture and its associated businesses are the most important source of wealth in the country. The greatest achievement of Fianna Fáil in various Governments was the introduction of the value added products that this industry produced in a basic form. The meat industry was a product of such encouragement and it is commented on in the budget.

In this context we must be proud of this fantastic industry that we have pioneered in Europe. There is no other country in that Continent that can say it has reached such high standards so quickly in what was virtually a new business. In some ways we are world leaders in this regard. Confused marketing conditions exist within the industry at the moment. It is important that the meat trade play its part, along with the other job creating industries that exist. With regard to the carcase export trade, it is a pity this is used as an excuse because it may be more profitable to export a cargo of carcase than the value added cuts which are more profitable to the country. If there is a situation where it may be marginally more attractive financially to export carcases than it is to export the packed product, I would remind the factories that they have a duty to the farmers, their workers and to the country as a whole to continue this business even though it may not be quite so profitable as another line. The supply position is there and there is a sufficient number of cattle to keep people at work. The management of the factories have a heavy responsibility in this regard. There is no use in pointing the finger at a working man and saying he is disruptive when management can be disruptive in a much more effective and lazy way.

The meat industry is worthy of praise. On occasion, however, it is a little lax in taking advantage of the opportunities that exist. On the question of the sale of animals, it is right that all doors should be opened and the live animal trade allowed to coexist with the dead meat trade. The only question I would raise is in regard to calf exports. Some of the countries importing our calves subsidise the production of beef from these young animals. If we are to get the best benefits from the EEC we must have the same level of support right through the industry from the production of the calf to the sale of the finished product in consumer acceptable form.

This budget is an affirmation of the people's ability to provide for themselves an opportunity for expanding and increasing prosperity. There is no whinging and whining about the budget. It puts fairly and squarely before the people the fact that they are being given an opportunity which was sadly lacking over the last four or five years. It is in total contrast to and refutation of the despicable statement of Lloyd George when we achieved our independence: "We have given them a sea of grass. Let them drown in it." This sea of grass we have, in fact, turned to our advantage. We have through the efforts of Bord Bainne and the Irish farmers turned it into a rising tide. As I said earlier, this has given a fantastic impetus to a new industry, namely, the meat industry. Though we may have been treated with despicable disdain by people who thought they knew better, in fact this budget says firmly that we do not have to go anywhere with a begging bowl. We can stand on our own feet and make real achievements.

In conclusion, I would like to quote my colleague's predecessor, a person held in great esteem and affection by many in this House: "Indeed, great things are happening in our time."

I rise to speak at a time when many have already spoken and at a time when there has been a great deal of reaction in the media and in what we refer to as the grassroots to this budget. It is fair to say everybody was very pleased with the budget. Anyone who pays income tax is pleased since the increased allowance will mean virtually more money in his or her pocket. These are facts recognised in the general reaction to the budget by commentators, political journalists and, for want of a better description, by ordinary people. The benefit received is not necessarily an equal benefit. Deputy Callanan pointed out correctly in an interruption when Deputy Cluskey was speaking that in a system of percentage increase those with more automatically get more. After a week and a half during which the budget has been tested, on the surface so to speak, in the crude way that budgets are tested, everybody is fairly happy. The pint is the same price. Tobacco and cigarettes are the same price. More money is coming in by way of tax allowance and, while borrowing is now up to 13 per cent, that really does not matter a damn to the ordinary man in the street. Borrowing on that scale is a Disneylike figure, a Funland figure. It does not make sense, or rhyme, or reason to him. In a sense this is the tragedy of this whole debate because there are major fundamental assumptions and implications implicit in the budget which we can only look at now and possibly project. There is no way of measuring the implications and assumptions until such time as time itself works out and tests the assumptions of the Minister for Finance and of his economics assistant, the Minister for Economic Planning and Development.

It is true—it is only fair to mention it—that the proposals outlined in the manifesto have in the main been implemented. The promises made with regard to tax reductions have been met, and so on. To that extent one can say that the country was provided with a choice back in June and the country made a choice and so this budget is a justification of the decision made in June and people have no argument against what has been done. I would dearly love to think that all elections and political debates were as considered and measured as that kind of argument would suggest. I would like to think that everybody who got the various pieces of literature from the different political groups sat down, measured them in a comprehensive way and came to a decision as to what was the best for the country and for themselves over the next four years and then went out to vote. Unfortunately—perhaps fortunately, but I think unfortunately —all of us know that is just not the case. The goodies were spotlighted and the people grabbed the goodies. I am not at all sure they recognised there was a possibility the goodies might ultimately prove to be so much Dead Sea fruit.

The Government have taken a very specific direction in this budget in regard to economic development, a direction from which they obviously will not deviate in the next three or four years. This is the first budget of this Fianna Fáil Administration and there are certain matters about which I would like some clarification. There are certain principles which would appear to be basically major guidelines which will apply over the next three or four years. That being the case, we can begin to sharpen up on some assumptions and projections, not for this year in which we are in fact borrowing up to 13 per cent, but for the years ahead when borrowing will have to be reduced, as the Minister himself has told us. What is the direction this budget is taking? Let me quote from the speech of the Minister for Finance on 1 February at column 375 of Volume 303 of the Official Report:

As I said at the outset, this budget is designed to create the conditions under which the private sector can move ahead and take over as a prime generator of economic growth and employment. One of the most important ways in which a Government can set this process in train is by so tailoring the taxes which business has to bear as to ensure that the spirit of enterprise and expansion is positively encouraged.

The budget provisions very generously create that sort of climate and, if one compares the provisions of this budget with last year's budget, the enticement, if that is the correct word, for the private sector has probably never been as positive or as constructive as it is now. Added to that is an economy which is, according to a great many commentators, in very good shape. We have a rising population, a population rising faster than at any time since pre-1841. We have an economy which is beginning to come out of a major recession, slowly but nevertheless much quicker than any of its counterparts in the EEC. And we have a Government turning its attention, its hopes and aspirations to what it describes as the private sector, not that the private sector should become very wealthy but that the private sector will fulfil the objectives we all have for it, providing full employment for all our population. Whether that full employment is described as being an unemployment level of somewhere in the region of 3 or 4 per cent or indeed full employment in the straight arithmetical sense, it implies a figure of job creation that has never previously been achieved by any combination of public or private sector enterprise in our economy since the foundation of the State.

That is why I seriously worry at the correctness of the strategy and assumptions made by the Minister for Finance and his colleagues in Government. I have no doubts about the clarity with which they were made. I have no doubt about the way in which they are presented. That is clear and explicit but I have a lot of doubts about whether the ship they are now proposing to sail can in fact carry all the passengers that were promised board and passage last June. As a socialist and a member of the Labour Party and someone who was reared in a business family I accept the private sector on its own terms. I accept that when somebody says he believes in private enterprise he means what he says, that he means "private" and "enterprise". I accept that if such a person's motivation to be in business is in order to create wealth and they are committed to private enterprise that such a person means for himself, his family or share-holders. The Government are being somewhat dishonest, either objectively or consciously—I genuinely think it is a more objective dishonesty rather than any cynicism on their part—if they expect the private sector to create jobs for the sake of creating jobs or if they say they expect the private sector, availing of all the incentives that have been provided for it in this and previous budgets, are going to consciously plough back that money with the explicit purpose of creating more employment.

There were a lot of aspirations at the end of the budget speech and we had a lot of aspirations, hopes and desires by Deputy Fox that this would happen but there is very little evidence, economic or otherwise, to suggest that it will and that is where my worry begins. It is a big worry. This year we are borrowing, as a once-off operation according to the Minister for Finance, a massive amount of capital in order to finance a programme which was laid out in the manifesto. We are borrowing that money to fund capital projects such as those announced to-day by the Minister for Health and to meet deficits in our current account in order to create the environment of enterprise to make the cash and capital available so that the economy can take off and reach some level of self-generating growth.

The economy at the moment, if one takes the analysis of the Minister for Finance in his speech, has come through a recession which was unprecedented in terms of ferocity since that experience between 1929 and 1932 and out of which the western world did not truly come until the beginning of the Second World War. Our economy is now growing faster than any other economy in the EEC. Inflation, from November to November of last year, was about 11 or 12 per cent and there is every justification to think that it should be down to 7 per cent by April or May this year. The rapid rise in unemployment figures which was seen as a result of the international recession of 1973-74 has been stopped and stemmed even though the population continues to grow. As far as we can gather consumer demand is picking up substantially in the Irish economy. The Government are borrowing a lot of money at a time when the economy is beginning to flex its muscles and exercise its own domestic demand for capital and cash. They are justifying that borrowing, that figure of 13 per cent, by saying that the National Coalition cannot argue with that because they borrowed more at one stage and spent it in a way that was not even as productive as the Government are proposing to spend it. One cannot make such comparisons. The National Coalition borrowed money at a time when virtually nobody else was borrowing money, when the private sector, performing to its own logical set of rules and criteria, decided that it was neither wise nor profitable to invest money, that it was neither wise nor profitable to look after unemployment, that it was neither wise nor profitable to worry about the national objective and whether the rising tide was going to carry all boats.

The private sector, is now and will always be concerned about its own boat. During the period of the recession it kept its money where it could control it and did not invest it. I have seen it argued by a number of people that if the borrowing was not made then by the National Coalition Government a lot of money would have left permanently or would not have had any outlet to be utilised. What is the effect of making this extra cash available at a time when demand is rising? This extra cash is being spread in buckshot fashion across the country in one shape or another, in tax allowances, the abolition of car tax and rates and the effective reduction in the price of drink and cigarettes because no additional excise duty has been put on those commodities. There have been a number of projections and one rightly says that it is going to be initially inflationary in its impact because industry, and the consumer sector to a certain extent, is already going at a fairly rapid level and is pretty much at full stretch. I would like to see those detailed figures for myself but assuming that statement is right a lot of this cash will be spread out in all directions, some of it on imports, as has been argued before, and therefore this borrowed money will not have the effect of providing a base or a threshold whereby we will get this self-generating growth that the budget speech looks for.

This buckshot approach of scattering money in all directions in the hope that some of it might stick and create some kind of employment, is being adopted with borrowed money in the main on the full public notice that it can only last for one year and on condition that there is wage restraint of 5 per cent. We have not heard the end of these wage negotiations either because the Minister, as I understood him to say in his speech, would be in order in coming back here in October and stating that while the country badly needed a national pay agreement, that level was reached not at the 5 per cent that he and his colleagues wanted but at 8 per cent now being finalised. He will then tell us that he gave us fair notice in this budget that any excess above the 5 per cent would have to be taken back in some shape or other. It would be unwise for anybody who feels that the discussions on either taxation or on wage levels are over because the Minister has given himself the perfect out in his speech. We have a situation where the money is being scattered all around the place but largely in the direction of consumers or in massive incentives to private industry to spend or to invest. In order to do that there is wage restraint on behalf of, largely speaking, the PAYE sector. They are being asked to restrain their legitimate demands for a share in this increase of growth in order that the economy might grow, in order that more jobs might be provided and in order that there would be additional employment for their friends or colleagues or their own children. I cannot see in that speech any hard correlation between the offer extended to the trade union movement and the suggestion if they restrained their demands jobs would be specifically provided in the private sector.

We are aware of the commitment in the public service. I like the distinction between the public service and the public sector. There are jobs being created in the public service which are being paid for out of the taxpayer's money. Those jobs, while they provide an absolutely essential service, are in classic terms wealth consuming rather than wealth producing. There is no guarantee to ensure that the money now being borrowed and made available to the public sector will be positively invested with the objective of providing extra employment. There is a fair assumption that, if the private sector performs according to the norms by which it is expected to perform, not laid down by left-wing politicians like myself or academic economists like the Minister for Economic Planning and Development, but by the bankers who lend them the money, there will be increased employment. There is not much use in the managing director of a private firm going into a banker and saying he is interested in employment and that is why he is adopting a particular line. Banks lend money specifically to get returns on it. There is no guarantee that there will be extra employment. There is no guarantee in the budget that the benefits of even increased productivity in the form of extra profits will come back to the employers in some shape or form.

The private sector is the new engine that will pull us into the 21st century or certainly pull us into some form of full employment for everybody. It was essential to get out of the way of that engine any kind of encumbrance that might slow it in its tracks or would reduce its speed or effectiveness. The major one was wealth tax. It was argued that that had to be removed. The Fianna Fáil Party in Opposition made a long and sustained attack on the wealth tax. There are criticisms which could be made against it. It could be argued, for example, that it was not half as effective as estate duty, which in terms of actual revenue collection was certainly far more successful. An argument put up before the 1973 election, and largely accepted by all the parties, was that estate duty should be abolished. Wealth tax was proposed in its place.

A lot of people who argue against wealth tax, not necessarily in the House but certainly people of the original profession of the Minister for Health—the accountancy profession— argue that wealth tax is counterproductive. When these arguments are advanced they make a lot of sense. If there are arguments against wealth tax or any other form of taxation they can certainly be made in the terms of the efficiency with which the tax can either be levied or collected and the administrative complications which the levying of such tax produces. I welcome any proposals or changes in such a tax that would make it more efficient. I do not think you can introduce a tax of that nature in one year and iron out all the difficulties in advance. Any taxation specialist would accept that.

That was not the objection of the Taoiseach to wealth tax. The Taoiseach was far more fundamental and philosophical about it. In his speech on the budget motion on 2 February 1978, Volume 303 of the Official Report, column 507, he stated with regard to wealth tax:

The tax is difficult and expensive to administer but that is not a basic argument against it. At a time when we are seeking to encourage investment can we really encourage and advocate a tax which takes away the purpose of that investment? Can anybody seriously defend a tax which encourages a person to take his capital out of the country or, if he does keep it here, encourages him to invest, not in productive assets like a farm, factory, hotel or business giving employment, but in a personal residence and its contents....

The argument of the people who were in favour of abolishing wealth tax and who have now had their way is that we are a small country in the process of development and that if we saddle ourselves with wealth tax at this stage we will not get off the ground. The argument is that we should all throw in our efforts together, make the cake as quickly and as big as possible and when it is completed then reallocate it, having reached the stage of completing the process of economic development.

That is an essentially false economic argument. I do not believe that option is now open to either this society or any other society similar to ours and at a similar level of development. I accept that the primary task confronting this community is the creation of wealth. I reject rather traditionalist attitudes on either side of the House which would suggest that the redistribution of existing wealth would satisfy the aspirations of even 30 per cent or 40 per cent of the population let alone the majority of the population. The wealth is not here. The potential to create the wealth is here and in many cases the resources to create the wealth are here. The actual process of wealth creation has not taken place sufficiently to enable us to effect the kind of redistribution of wealth which was seen as possible in the 1920s and 1930s in the developed economies of Western Europe, underpinning the theoretical argument of Marx and Engels and the socialist leaders of the 1920s when they saw massive wealth in large industrial and imperial countries like Britain, Germany and France alongside enormous industrial poverty.

It was quite possible in those countries to get a massive shift of resources so that their basic standard of living was significantly increased and still leave the structure of wealth owner-ship largely intact. It is an extra-ordinary thing that the people in the Tory Party seldom refer to this. Perhaps the reason is that, despite the attacks of the welfare state on their position of privilege and power, the figures for the ownership of wealth in Britain are even more scandalous than they are here and the effect of wealth tax and their extraordinary high levels of surtax——

There is no wealth tax in Britain.

I should say the effect of their capital taxes. They had capital taxation for a long time before we attempted to introduce it. The effect of their capital taxation and the effect of their very high surtax levels—much higher than anything we have ever had here—still have not resulted in changing their structure of wealth owner-ship. Minor shifts in wealth, because the economies were basically so wealthy at the outset, could still produce an incredible improvement in the standard of living of the people. That option of redistribution of wealth is not open to us. Anybody who argues that is being naïve, and to that extent infantile left wing comment that suggests you can do such an operation in our society is being doctrinaire and naïve.

Anybody who argues that the private sector can create wealth in the fashion in which it has been created in other economies, such as in France, Germany and Britain in the past, if one takes off all of the restraints on the private sector, is being equally naïve, doctrinaire and simplistic. History has changed. The days are gone when private enterprise or the private sector generally could make a quick buck, in a manufacturing or processing sense, as distinct from speculation. So have the days when somebody could employ labour at cheap rates in factories without proper sanitation and without the constraints and conditions imposed by all the social legislation built up over the years by previous administrations, commencing with Fianna Fáil in the thirties. The consolidation of the gains made by the trade union and labour movements throughout that period ensure that there is no easy, back lane road to rapid wealth creation in the private sector.

Just as the wealth was not created in the past to enable us effect the kind of redistribution about which we are speaking the options open for its creation—in the way in which it was created in the past in other countries —no longer exist. One of the most frequent arguments advanced by private industrialists, people concerned with producing wealth in the classic economic sense, is in regard to the cost of labour. They will argue that the package of social legislation introduced by the last administration has, if anything, had a more detrimental effect on employment in some sectors than the actual cost of wages, that even the action taken recently by the Minister for Social Welfare in reducing the cost of the stamp to the employee— making it more attractive to work than heretofore because of the contrast between social welfare payments and wages—will not overcome the deterrent effects of much of the legislation introduced by my colleague, the former Minister for Labour, such as that relating to unfair dismissals and so on.

The naïve assumption implicit in the budget speech that if one clears the tracks, gets everything out of the way and lets the private sector get on with it, it will suddenly take off, is very naïve unless it is said also that we will reduce the standard of sanitation in our factories and of safety regulations and that we will reduce all of the costs falling on the private sector. Why start with the taxation ones? Why not take the whole package away? Anybody who is in employment in industry or processing and who has to deal with these kinds of restraints knows just how real they are. There-fore, in ideological terms, on both sides of the House, we are being very naïve if we think that somehow merely by juggling taxes we can create the climate in which the private sector can take off. It would be marvellous if we could. It would get us all out of a hole in the sense that we are faced with this massive demand and growth in population.

Objectively the situation has changed fundamentally. There are arguments to suggest that the level of profitability within small and major companies, as a percentage, has been declining gradually, that many large companies are turning over massive amounts of capital for very little return, certainly one our grandfathers would have thought ludicrous. Therefore, the profitability of much of the investment has been reduced. What does all that mean? Bluntly it means that the Government consciously, in a doctrinaire fashion, have backed the wrong horse. I am rather amused to hear speaker after speaker from the Fianna Fáil benches maintain that they are pragmatists and then continue to deliver eulogies in favour of the private sector and say they are ideologists. There is nothing wrong with being an ideologist, with having a clear set of values or attitudes. Fianna Fáil got rid of some of the encumbrances. Undoubtedly from an industrialist's point of view there were encumbrances attached to the wealth tax. I think it was Deputy Fox who said that the industrialist would be fair and kind to Fianna Fáil, would remember them and, instead of spending the money in a consumer-like fashion would say: "We had better remember what Deputy Fox said in the Dáil; we will create three or four more jobs; we will not buy new cars". I do not believe people are in business to perform in that way. This Government have fallen into the trap of the narrow-based economic thinking of academics. As the late Seán Lemass said, academics in Government are not a great recipe for success.

The Deputy's party know all about that.

I was being very polite. Anybody who suggests that somebody operates like some form of economic siphon, in the latter part of the 20th century, is being very naïve. Without boring the House I believe that our attitude to work and to work-effort in this country, for whatever reason is totally different from that of Victorian Britain or northern Germany. Even if we wanted to, our families will not let us work as hard as did our grandfathers; there are demands for availability to wife, family and so on. The kind of workload people took on in the Victorian age, when they built the kind of wealth subsequently redistributed, has changed totally. I believe that the consequences of that change will be that, at a certain stage of personal achievement within the private sector, people who have been given all of this incentive will say: "I have achieved all I want out of this enterprise or business; I am not going to achieve any more; I am going to spend more time with my family". This engine which is supposed to be hauling us all into a level of full employment, will suddenly come to a stop because the engine drivers are going to say: "We are knocking off. We have travelled as far as we want to".

The base on which so much of this incentive has been centred is, in itself, very narrow, it has not been spread; nobody has been given the task of ensuring that if one fellow gets tired somebody else will step into his shoes. If one wants to plan any economy one has to control all of its elements and not let one ride totally free. Rather, in return for wage restraint or money lending, which is what the industrial sector was being asked to do, they should be given some form of equity participation, some form of say in how the increased profits resulting from such wage restraints would be reinvested. The biggest problem facing our economy is not the 8 per cent increase in wages for the industrial sector. That can be carried without any difficulty whatsoever with the exception of old, traditional industries which are now in difficulty. Indeed, the newer ones set up in the last 15 years can easily carry 8 per cent and, in some cases, possibly 10 per cent or 12 per cent. If I was a worker in one of those industries and was asked to lend the balance between 8 per cent and that to which I was really entitled—the administration will look after you, will respond to the aspirations at the end of the Minister for Finance's speech; the nice, woolly rhetoric we all tend to use at the end of speeches—I would be bound to admit that there was nothing there for me. There is no commitment, no hard and fast guarantee. I should like to see a commitment that if profitability went beyond a certain level, with capital being made available as a result, if industry availed of all the tax incentives for depreciation and so on given in the budget, the workers would have some say in how that money would be invested. At the moment they have no say and there is no proposal to give them a say. So, without even that constraint, where the directors of a firm can say they have made so much money, people are at the mercy of the aspirations of people in the private sector as to what they want to do with the money.

Many of them may put the money into some activity which in turn will generate some employment. They may buy houses in the country, they may go back to the towns from whence they came and create some local employment there, but is this economic planning? Is this the kind of way in which the massive borrowings set out in the budget are to be used? I do not believe it is. I believe this was aimed at having the buckshot effect of spreading this money in all directions and hoping against hope that some of it will land.

The structure of that argument is obvious and there is no point in my filling it in. What kind of alternatives do we have? How would I do it if I had some say in the allocation of the resources? I accept much of what the Minister has said about the economy, about the needs and the demands, but I would be much more worried about the future than he appears to be— about the constraints that are likely to occur in the next ten to 20 years when 50 per cent of our population will not yet have reached the age of 50 because they are now less than 25 years of age.

One of the major constraints, and it is obvious, is in relation to energy, whether it be energy for food processing, for agricultural or industrial development, or simply for ordinary transport. The budget debate so far has made no distinction in regard to the utilisation of energy and the purposes for which it is used. I will not quarrel with the political attractiveness of the package, but the combination of the abolition of car tax which made private transport cheaper and the directing of the massive capital resources away from the public housing sector to the private sector, which in the main means private sector estates in the suburbs with lower standards of building construction which the private sector can get away with, means that the energy consumption implication of those two decisions is potentially large.

In replies to questions to the Ministers involved it is clear that not only do they not have any way of measuring what the implications of those two measures might be but they are not even aware that they should be measured. It is far too easy to say that they are irresponsible, because our awareness of the needs to conserve energy is a fairly recent thing in both sides of the House. However, we have had a surfeit of advice on energy conservation in the last three years and I would have thought that the implications for somebody nominally charged with responsibility for economic planning and development would have been recognised and some attempt made to counter them.

For instance, what will happen if, because of the failure or apparent failure of the Sadat move, there is another Middle East war? What will happen to Western Europe and to this country if suddenly we get caught with another oil price hoist? We are told we have 93 days, three days in excess of what the EEC require. Part of that depends on access to the Bantry Bay terminal and further questions no doubt will give us details as to what rights of access the Government have to that in an emergency. Then there is the matter of energy sharing and so forth, but at the end of the day some form of rationing must take place. On that basis we could be in a position where our industry would become very vulnerable and our workforce will find it impossible to get to work.

That constraint in regard to energy would have weighed highly with me if I had been where the Minister for Finance has been in the last couple of months. The way I would have dealt with that kind of constraint, to meet short-term objectives of environmental improvement and job creation, would have been to provide a miserable £38 million for CIE in order to implement their electrification of suburban lines in the Dublin area. This Government and the previous Government have had that for consideration since April last but no decision has been made and all the indications are that a decision will come later rather than sooner. Yet the benefits in that one area could be quite substantial in the short term and in the long term.

Another area we have been crying about in terms of a massive resource yet to be exploited is our fishery industry, whether it is to be a 50-mile limit or some compromise alternative that will come from Brussels. Everybody knows we do not have the full capacity to exploit this resource, and yet when I asked the Minister for Fisheries a question, recognising the gap between our ability to exploit the resource and its enormous potential richness, whether the Minister would consider establishing a State fleet—he could buy one cheaply at the moment because fishing fleets are becoming redundant in other EEC countries—the Minister replied that a State fleet would stifle individual initiative and enterprise. When I asked him if he was implying that there was no room for individual initiative and enterprise within the State sector he appealed to the Chair for help and the question was ruled out of order: I was delving into sociology.

The Government have committed themselves in a one-off shot to borrowing 13 per cent of GNP, scattering it to the private sector, cutting off possible areas of investment in the public sector as distinct from the public service. I will define exactly what I mean. I am referring to those areas which, with public capital, can create wealth in their own right, bodies like NET, BIM, Bord na Móna, the sugar company and so on. I make that distinction between the public sector and the public service for the purposes of debate. The Government have scattered, on their own admission, a very large sum of money which they certainly cannot borrow next year, on what they recognise as a gamble in order to take us along the road towards full employment. They have made very specific tax write-offs, concessions and offerings to a large range of people. The only people to be taxed are the farmers, and I do not propose to go into that area. The tax in that area has been very light and the farmers have not complained much. Indeed their representatives had difficulty in complaining to the extent that they did. Deputy Bruton knows far more about these matters and I will leave it to him.

We borrow that kind of money and hitch it to one engine, private enterprise. The driver, relative to the rest of the population, relative to the thousands of people who are less than 25 years of age, is very small in comparison to the other people on that train. The model which the Government think such an individual is does not exist. The change in humanity in the last 20 or 30 years, in the expectations people have for themselves, that children have for their parents, that wives have for their husbands, do not make it possible for someone to work in the maniac fashion put forward by the Government. If someone has achieved a level of personal wealth, he should move over and relax.

The Minister in his speech said that the public sector will not really get any money, and the capital budget programme shows that. There is an extra-ordinary bias towards the private sector and away from the public sector. Having taken this risk and having put all our eggs in the basket of the private sector, the Minister, in an undoctrinaire, non-ideological fashion, says:

It is only right that profits should recover from the set-back experienced during the recession. But the community can justifiably expect that increased profits will be used in productive investment and jobcreation. Socially irresponsible waste and conspicuous consumption have no part in our economic strategy, any more than unproductive speculation.

Something extraordinary happened to Fianna Fáil in their four years in Opposition because they certainly did not hold that view when they were previously in office. Perhaps members of the party would explain what change has been made and what will be done to banks which lend money for unproductive speculation. If such banks get into trouble having loaned money for unproductive speculation, will they bail them out? If they come up with a solution, I hope they will start in my constituency where there are a number of eyesore sites largely because banks loaned money for socially unproductive speculation.

Referring to the private sector the Minister in his speech said:

They must plough rising profits back into their businesses and raise investment and output. And it is imperative that they develop also a keen sense of responsibility in relation to the overriding need to create more jobs and reduce unemployment. In the coming years private sector investment decisions should always be directed at increasing employment to the maximum extent consistent with market conditions.

Nobody would seriously argue with that aspiration, but it is only an aspiration. There was an opportunity in this budget to stitch some of that aspiration into some of the tax proposals made. I do not profess to be either an economist or an accountant, but assuming that the technical professional arguments can be overcome, I would believe the Minister when he says that their approach is a pragmatic approach which is not dictated by ideological dogma and that if there is an adequate response by either sector they shall take appropriate action in the interest of the whole community.

The Deputy has four minutes.

Thank you. If it is not pragmatic, if it is not dictated by ideological dogma and if there is not an adequate response, what can they do? Can they take the car tax back, put rates back on houses, or reintroduce the wealth tax? Supposing the private sector does not perform to the narrow economic model, but performs to a much narrower set of criteria, supposing all the rules of economic theory are torn up by people saying, despite the incentives given "I do not wish to make any more money", what can one do? The Government have committed themselves to a direction and it is not possible to reverse that direction. I can see no assurance that the private sector will do the sort of things the Government wishes, although it would be very nice if they did. If that assurance were there many of us could stop worrying about it and worry about other things that confront our society.

The Government have taken an enormous risk. There is nothing wrong with that provided people are told in advance about the risk. In the light of this debate—and in more detail when the Finance Bill comes before the House—one could reasonably ask "Is the risk justified"? I have no moral or religious stand against gambling, but I do not like people gambling with my money. That, in effect, is what this Government are doing with their budget proposals. They are gambling on wage restraint: people who lend their money to the private sector and do not take it out in the form of wage increases are supposed to receive some sort of benefit at the end of the day, with consequent benefit for the rest of the community. There is nothing in the Minister's speech or in the logic of the Government's action so far to suggest that the package that has been proposed and offered to the private sector will deliver on his aspirations.

To that extent this country has taken a narrow, doctrinaire right wing turn through a party that prided themselves on a sense of reality and considered themselves to be very pragmatic. If one reads the comments in The Economist and in The Financial Times in the years 1970 to 1973, when Edward took over in Britain, at a time before we knew high inflation in the western world, one will see that the arguments in favour of letting businesses take off after six years of Labour Party Government were made with the same kind of strength and authority as the arguments made by people coming up to this budget. The then Chancellor in Britain brought in two extraordinary give-away budgets at that time. At the end of the day the level of investment in the productive areas of the British economy was less than it was at the beginning, because the private sector performed as a private sector should perform—it looked after number one.

The mistake in this budget is that Fianna Fáil do not believe the private sector when they say that the private sector is private. They are hoping it will do something that it was not set up to do, that it does not want to do and shows no inclination of wanting to do. It has not done so in the past and to expect it to do so in the future is to be naïve and doctrinaire at the same time.

I was very glad to have been in the House and to listen to the contribution made by Deputy Quinn. His contribution was entirely constructive. I do not agree with his general approach to the budget, but I recognise that Deputy Quinn has attacked head on the budget and the thinking behind the budget. The Deputy has set out to make what is probably the only valid argument that can be made against the budget, that is, that it is over-reliant on private enterprise. The Deputy's arguments in that regard are worthy of consideration. I will make a few brief comments by way of reply to the Deputy without entering into an involved debate on the respective merits of private enterprise and the reliance of the budget on private enterprise.

The Deputy was unduly dismissive of the part that the Minister for Finance and the budget are allocating to the public sector. He made a very valid distinction between the public service and the public sector. Without being unfair to the Deputy one could say that he made a plea for greater reliance on the public sector's job creation and job generation capacity to an even greater extent than was made by the Minister for Finance. However, Deputy Quinn and other Deputies will find that in the budget tables there is the very substantial capital figure of £350 million being allocated to the State companies. Admittedly, included in that is £60 million for telephone capital development but it must be said that the investment by the State in public sector enterprise for 1978 is substantial. Undoubtedly, therefore, the Minister has placed a very great deal of reliance on the response he hopes to get from the private sector. He has offered considerable incentives to that sector in the hope of getting from them the response that is required but he has also made a considerable investment in the public sector. Perhaps it is only natural that this factor is being overlooked in the debate.

Deputy Quinn said he was not satisfied that all the money being released into the economy would produce the results the Minister for Finance hoped. I am paraphrasing the Deputy but I think he will agree that I am giving a fair summing up of what he said. I recall the late Mr. Seán Lemass, whom the Deputy has quoted with approval, on one occasion summing up our economic dilemma by saying that he would dearly love to be managing the sort of economy in which there was a great deal of money pressing for investment opportunity, where instead of trying to beat money out of different places we would have a pressure of investment funds seeking outlets. To some extent that answers Deputy Quinn's argument regarding the releasing of greater financial resources and the removing of the various restraints and restrictions and their finding suitable investment.

Deputy Lemass did not borrow the money. That is the kernel of my argument.

Deputy Quinn was saying that he was not satisfied that the releasing of floods of finances would in itself generate activity in jobs. I do not agree. If funds are flowing freely into an economy they will find productive outlets.

I shall leave the fairly broad ground travelled by Deputy Quinn. To some extent it is an esoteric argument at this stage. The Deputy painted a fairly attractive picture of a private enterprise person refusing, because of his lifestyle, to accept incentives offered to him. That argument can be turned very easily on its head. Is it much more likely that a private entrepreneur who is offered incentives will go after the fruits of those incentives than to a greater extent than will an executive in a nationalised industry? Is the Deputy suggesting that the executive in a nationalised industry has not his own lifestyle, that he does not play his golf or that he is much more concerned with the attractiveness of his lifestyle than with pursuing these goals? If we are to set two groups of executives against each other, my money, in the circumstances painted by Deputy Quinn, would have to be on the private entrepreneur as distinct from the executive of a nationalised industry.

The story of nationalised industry has not been all that successful, particularly in Great Britain. I do not think that any reasonably-minded socialist could claim that British Steel or British Rail, for instance, have been all that successful given the resources that have been poured into them. By and large most of our State enterprises have given us a good return. I am happy to note the very substantial capital investment that the Minister for Finance this year is putting into our State industries.

By way of general reply to the argument put forward by Deputy Quinn I should like to remind the Deputy that when the Minister for Finance uses the word "pragmatic" he is indicating that he is not tied totally either to private enterprise or to the public sector, that he is not hung up ideologically on either system. As of now he wants to give incentives to the private sector because he regards that sector to be the one in which incentives are needed and as being the area from which the thrust can come. All our history in Fianna Fáil is that where a public enterprise or a State enterprise can do the job we will give them the job to do and the resources with which to do it. There is not one State enterprise company in that book that can come forward with any proposal to produce jobs or create employment who will not be given the capital they need. We are not shutting off the flow of investment into State companies. They are being given more capital this year than ever before.

These are just some thoughts provoked by the very thoughtful contribution from Deputy Quinn. I agree that it is a valid argument—perhaps it should be the central argument in this debate—as to whether in a modern context private enterprise can deliver.

The budget is providing for attractive incentives to the private sector. We shall await the outcome of the offering of those incentives. The Minister for Finance and the Government are prepared to take other action if the course on which we have embarked is not successful.

The Fianna Fáil manifesto stressed that the real threat to our future lay in our economic difficulties and pointed out that failure to find work for our people could, in particular, revive the old evil of a stagnant economy compelling thousands of our people to emigrate. That was the sort of situation which confronted Fianna Fáil in the sixties but which the Fianna Fáil Government of the day succeeded in overcoming. We were returned to office in June last on a clear mandate from the people to get the economy moving.

The recent White Paper on national development identified the Government's main economic targets for 1978. It spelt out those targets as a reduction of 20,000 in the number of unemployed, a fall in the rate of inflation to 7 per cent and a growth rate of 7 per cent. This year's budget is, as the Minister for Finance pointed out, the first for a number of years which has been set in the context of a formal and positive commitment to medium-term planning and is directed primarily to stimulating economic activity, generating productive investment and creating employment. With those objectives before him, the Minister for Finance's main strategy had to be economic. The main thrust of the resources at his disposal had to be in the direction of economic activity, productive investment and job creation.

No matter how urgent the tackling of economic problems may be, no Fianna Fáil Government is prepared to ignore, even temporarily, the legitimate claims of that section of the community who must of necessity rely primarily upon the Government for the protection of their standards of living. We believe that the ultimate purpose of all economic development must be social in the broadest sense, namely the improvement of the living standards and the quality of life for the people as a whole. Even though in framing this year's budget the primary preoccupation of the Government was economic, nevertheless we were not prepared to leave aside completely and ignore the legitimate claims of the deprived and under-privileged sections of our community.

It is true to say that the social welfare provisions of the budget have been generally welcomed. There have been some complaints to the effect that the increases provided are insufficient and one can understand and instinctively sympathise with those complaints. We are all familiar with cases of hardship in our community, cases for which we would like to do more, and in that sense the budgetary provision for social welfare in any year never has been and never will be regarded as adequate. Some of the criticism of specific aspects of the social welfare provisions this year has ignored their overall effect and impact. For that reason I should like to summarise the main improvements included in the budgetary provisions and in the Estimate.

In our election manifesto we undertook to maintain the living standards of social welfare recipients by regular adjustment of the level of payments at least in line with the cost of living. In this budget we have done more than that. An increase of between 3 and 4 per cent would have met the manifesto requirement in maintaining the real value of the rates as at October 1977. In fact, we have provided for an increase of 10 per cent across the board. That increase of 10 per cent is based on the Government's recognition of the fact that 1978 will be a year of growth. It is only fair that in a year of growth the social welfare classes should share in that growth to the same extent as any other class. That is why we have not confined ourselves to the 3 per cent or 4 per cent which the manifesto dictated. Instead we have provided a 10 per cent increase in all rates. That increase will, because of the significant reduction in the rate of inflation, give social welfare recipients their greatest real increase in income for many years. I want to emphasise the term "real increase" in that regard. After allowing for the likely increase in the CPI during 1978, the real increase should be over 6 per cent and that compares with a real increase of 1 per cent or less for 1977 and 1976. I want to emphasise that I am talking of a 10 per cent monetary increase which, in the terms of 1978, will be equivalent to a real increase of 6 per cent for the social welfare classes.

There has also been some criticism of the absence of provision for a further increase next October. I admit that the idea of twice yearly increases has a certain superficial attraction but I must point out very clearly that in the past two years, in which we had April and October increases, the increases in October were not really for the purpose of improving the position of the social welfare classes. They were necessary to keep pace with raging inflation and that is why we had to have bi-yearly increases in 1976 and 1977. In effect, they did not increase in a real way the welfare of the recipients. They merely kept pace with inflation. This year, as I think everybody will agree, inflation is on the way down and the increase of 10 per cent in April will be equivalent to a real increase of 6 per cent for the year as a whole.

Apart from the increases in rates of benefit we are making a number of other significant improvements in this budget. We promised in the manifesto to work towards the elimination of discrimination against women. In keeping with that promise, single women and widows will have from October access to unemployment assistance on the same terms that now apply to men. That means that the requirement of having to have a dependant or a certain minimum number of contributions in respect of insurable employment will be removed. There has been some criticism of the fact that this change will not be made until October. Anybody who knows anything about the situation will realise that it could not be done sooner than that because there are very substantial numbers involved. We anticipate something in the region of 50,000 applicants for unemployment benefit as a result of this change.

Unemployment assistance.

Yes, unemployment assistance. All these applications must be processed and the earliest date at which that could be done with reasonable administrative efficiency is 1 October. We will start the process as soon as the Bill dealing with social welfare is passed in order to make the operation as smooth as possible.

During my relatively short period in office as Minister for Social Welfare, I have come across a number of petty restrictions which are not of general application but where they apply they can cause severe hardship in individual cases. Most of these have come to my attention through correspondence from Deputies dealing with particular cases. In the case of old age pensioners, there is an existing residence test which requires a person to have lived in the State for at least 15 years, of which five years must have been after the age of 50. That may not appear to be a very onerous test and this is so in the vast majority of cases. However, cases arise where Irish nationals who have been living abroad for a number of years and who return to Ireland late in life cannot immediately qualify for pensions because of this requirement. Its removal will be a welcome change for those involved.

We are also easing the same type of residence requirement for widows' non-contributory pension and for allowances payable to deserted wives, unmarried mothers, prisoners' wives and single women. The free electricity scheme was introduced in 1967 by a Fianna Fáil Government to ensure that pensioners living alone or with dependants would have a reasonable standard of heating and a modest degree of comfort. I am satisfied that scheme was of considerable help to a large number of old people, but Deputies know from their experience that a fair number of old people living alone, because of the remoteness of where they live, cannot avail of that concession. So, we are introducing a scheme of allowances for bottled gas which will be equivalent to the free electricity allowance. There has been a fair amount of debate and discussion by Deputies from time to time on the free fuel schemes which operate in certain areas. There is fairly widespread agreement, I think that this type of scheme is not very satisfactory. So, I am setting up a working party to go into this whole matter and look at the situation of old persons from the heating point of view generally, taking into account this scheme, the electricity scheme, the free fuel schemes and the supplementary allowance scheme, and see if a better, more composite type of scheme can be introduced.

The maternity grant has been doubled and the death grant under the social insurance scheme has been raised to £50. These are small matters but they are important to a limited section of the community. We are making two important changes in the provisions relating to children. At present where a deserted wife dies and the father of the children does not resume responsibility for them nothing can be done. The only outlet, as it were, is for the children to be put into an institution. We are providing that an allowance at the orphan pension rate will be paid to a relative or some other suitable person who will take charge of the children and therefore avoid the necessity to send them to an institution.

The other change proposed relates to children of broken marriages. At present where the children live with their mother the father cannot claim them as dependants for purposes of an increase in benefits even though he is supporting them when working. That deficiency will be remedied as and from April next. In the case of a broken marriage the mother or father will be able to claim for the children in that context. I think the House will agree——

Is that a tax allowance?

No, as a social welfare dependant. I think the House will agree both of these are desirable changes. They are not of major impact but affect a number of people. They both arise out of this tragedy of either a broken marriage or a deserted wife. These situations are on the increase, a disturbing feature of modern society and this is something of which I, as Minister for Social Welfare, must take increasing cognisance. If there is anything I or the House could do to mitigate the incidence of broken marriages and deserted wives I am sure it would be done, but pending the capacity to do anything of that kind we should take whatever action is open to us to alleviate the affects on the children.

Deputies are already aware that as from 1 April next an old age pensioner living alone, fortunate enough to have a telephone, will have the annual rental fully paid for that telephone. I think that has been widely welcomed. It is of restricted application but it will be of very considerable benefit to quite a number of old persons. We know that one of the troubles afflicting old persons living alone is this feeling of loneliness and isolation. I think we must give increasing attention to the problems of loneliness in so far as the old are concerned and see if we can devise by community action or otherwise, ways of mitigating this feeling of loneliness and isolation. The new subsidy will be of assistance to a number of old people.

The total cost of these social welfare measures, including the corresponding increases in allowances under the Health Acts will be £38 million in 1978 and £55 million in a full year. When you add that to the existing services total expenditure on social welfare services will be running at an annual rate of £610 million. Deputies will see that the amount provided in the budget and in the Estimate for Social Welfare is not inconsiderable.

I might avail of the opportunity to mention three other matters in the social welfare field which are in process of planning and action in my Department. There is the introduction next year of a fully pay-related social insurance contribution which I think will be welcome for the general improvement it will bring in the social insurance situation. It will also be of particular assistance to lower paid workers. Allied to that is the matter of insurance for the self-employed. We recently published a Green Paper on this issue and the amount of interest there is in this matter throughout the community came as quite a surprise to me.

There is also the very major question of the national income-related pension scheme. Again, we have published a Green Paper and sought the views of the different sections that might be involved with a view to examining a scheme of that sort.

On the health side, the manifesto made clear that the aim of Fianna Fáil policy would be to secure the highest possible standards of physical and mental health for the community as a whole. Despite the priority which had to be afforded by the Government to economic recovery in this year's budgetary allocations we have not neglected to make very substantial provision for health. The estimates provide a total allocation in 1977/78 of £357 million for capital and non-capital services against £312 million last year. This morning, I released details of our capital expenditure programme for 1978. The total of that programme is £20.5 million which is a very substantial allocation. That allocation will enable all the major projects on hand to go ahead rapidly. At the same time it will enable us to make a considerable number of important new starts in 1978 which are being set out in a table which will be available to Deputies.

The provision also includes a substantial job creation element in line with the Government's concentration on job creation. In 1978 in the health services alone 2,400 extra jobs will be created at all levels.

Is that on top of what was created elsewhere?

Yes, 2,400 new jobs in 1978, which is a reasonable contribution by the health services to the overall job creation programme. Those jobs will be at all levels of the services and will include consultants, public health nurses and other categories. In addition to the creation of jobs and employment this will have the satisfactory effect of improving our health services.

The record of Fianna Fáil in health is a first-class one. I would like to recall briefly to the House some of the provisions of previous Fianna Fáil Governments which I suggest are important milestones in the history of the evolution of our health services. As far back as 1947 we introduced the Health Services (Financial Provisions) Act which was really the start of the modern system of financing our health services whereby the health services were taken away from the local rates and transferred to the central authority. In 1945 we had the Tuberculosis (Establishment of Sanitoria) Act which set about tackling the scourge of tuberculosis, a disease which was then rampant here. We had also in 1945 the Mental Treatment Act, a very comprehensive measure dealing with all aspects of the care and treatment of the mentally ill, including revising in a most radical way the procedures for the admission to and retention in hospitals. There was the Health Act of 1947 which made provision for free hospital treatment for infectious diseases. The Health Act of 1953 introduced further significant changes. Eligibility for health services was greatly extended and assessed not on the basis of individual means testing but on a person's membership of several broadly defined classes. That Act also provided for a development of a comprehensive rehabilitation service. These are some of the milestones in the Fianna Fáil history of building up step by step a modern health service for the Irish people.

We initiated too the policy of providing modern, well-equipped hospital units for the aged who require such care, and community or welfare homes for persons who are no longer able to live in the community even with the aid of the supportive services. We eliminated the dispensary system and introduced the Choice of Doctor Scheme. While there are now a number of modern homes for the mentally handicapped because of the hospital building programmes of the 1960s and early 1970s, there is still a serious shortage of places. The 1978 building programme recognises that shortage and provides for new projects involving the provision of 1,320 day and residential places for the mentally handicapped over the next few years. I do not think that a party with a tradition of concern for the disadvantaged in our society, such as Fianna Fáil are, can be accused of being either uncaring or conservative in their approach. Some of the examples of positive steps which we will be taking during 1978 will be absolutely in line with the progressive approach of the Fianna Fáil Party in Government in health matters. The 10 per cent increase which applies to social welfare classes will of course also apply to health benefits.

One matter which has caused a fair amount of anxiety and dissatisfaction in recent years is the constant care allowance where the mentally handicapped are concerned. The primary purpose of those allowances is to provide for the domiciliary care of handicapped children, and the amount payable at present in respect of an eligible child is £25 per month. That amount has not been increased since the scheme was introduced in 1973. This year from 1 April we are increasing it from £25 to £35 per month, and from now on it will be applicable to every eligible child in the family, the restriction in that regard being removed.

Another matter in relation to the parents of handicapped children which has been of some concern is the need for a domiciliary counselling service. Many families faced with the discovery that their infant is handicapped do not know where to turn for advice and assistance, and that is particularly so in the case of mentally handicapped children. It is necessary that we create a domiciliary service for such families so that during a handicapped child's early years, in the period before he can be taken to a day or residential centre, the parents will be given advice and guidance in regard to his care and development. We are providing funds this year to start building up a service of that sort. Some Deputies may know that we are having a seminar on the mentally handicapped generally on next Thursday and we will be discussing there the best way of going about building up that type of domiciliary counselling service.

Many Deputies are also concerned about the position of adult handicapped persons who if given a helping hand can be restored and introduced to a working life. We all agree that we owe it to these handicapped persons to help them towards a life as similar as possible to that of the more fortunate among us. To do this we must have adequate and effective measures for their vocational training. This year I hope, out of the funds placed at my disposal in the Estimates, to provide about 600 additional places for trainees in handicap workshops where these people will get the training they need. Deputies will agree that the results of that in both humanitarian and economic terms will be quite substantial.

There are many reasons for accepting that fostering is a very desirable alternative to institutional care, and I will be giving special attention to this area with a view to improving existing arrangements. As a practical and immediate step the boarding-out allowance will be increased from £9 to £11 from 1 April next. I intend during the year to give as much priority as possible to the development of the community care services, especially domiciliary services for the aged and other disadvantaged groups. I am very conscious of the vital role which voluntary organisations play in promoting and providing services for groups of the population who are in special need of help. The development and maintenance of this voluntary sector is important not only from the point of view of the provision of the services but also because of the involvement of so many people and the nature of the activity involved, which represent a significant and desirable community effort.

There is a wide range of need which these voluntary organisations can meet. For example, the provision of home help services, the making of arrangements for pre-school play groups, support for battered wives and increased financial assistance throughout this area will give us an excellent return either from the organisations already providing services or in facilitating the development of further voluntary groups and voluntary activities. From the resources placed at my disposal I will be able again to find considerable additional funds in 1978 for all these purposes.

We will also proceed with many worth-while projects in the area of child care services: neighbourhood youth projects, the commissioning of new units for deprived children in need of care, the establishment of hostels for severely emotionally disturbed boys and girls, and a psychiatric unit for children and adolescents. Increased financial assistance will also be made available for extra accommodation for homeless boys and to provide additional facilities to cater for the children of travelling families in need of special support.

Many Deputies are aware also of the need to deal with the problem which exists in the case of battered wives. In the latter part of 1977, I had discussions with a number of organisations concerned with this very acute problem. Health Boards already support the provision of social services for battered wives and their children, but it is quite clear that there is a very special need for short-term accommodation for those who find themselves in intolerable and unbearable situations. Already we have made some additional finance available to Women's Aid, which is one of the organisations concerned with battered wives in the Dublin area. We intend to make additional improvements during the coming year.

A number of institutions which cater for special groups such as the deaf, the blind, and children suffering from multiple handicaps have been facing difficulties. In some instances, the available accommodation in these institutions is very far from satisfactory. In the capital programme this year, the £20½ million to which I referred, we are providing money to remedy that situation as quickly as possible. I will also be providing additional funds to look after the running costs of these centres.

As I mentioned earlier, the main thrust of the budget is economic, and had to be economic. Let us all fully understand it is the underprivileged and deprived who are most vitally concerned with the success of our economic plan. Occasionally that is overlooked. The greater our success in achieving our economic targets, the greater is the prospect of realising further development of all our social services. In periods of recession the well-off and the rich can usually make out all right, can usually look after themselves. It is the poor and the underprivileged who suffer most when the economic climate is unfavourable. They have a very real interest in the successful outcome of the Government's policies for economic growth.

The budget for 1978 has endeavoured to strike a reasonable balance between economic policies on the one hand and the provision of adequate funds for social development on the other. I think it has succeeded. In Government, Fianna Fáil have never forgotten the less well-off sections of the community, and have constantly pursued the aim of raising the level of social services available to them within the constraints of available resources. On this occasion Fianna Fáil have not deviated from this principle. They have not this year, and they will not at any stage in the future.

As I said, it is the poor, the under-privileged and the deprived who have the greatest interest in ensuring that our economic plans are successful, because then we will have the resources to improve their lot constantly and continuously. It is the Fianna Fáil philosophy to do that. As the resources become available, we make them available to those who need them. As I said earlier, we recognise, and it is our philosophy and our belief, that all economic activities, all economic plans, programmes and policies must ultimately have that basic social purpose.

We have been told this budget and the whole economic policy of the Government are based on a gamble. It was described with what must inevitably be called exaggeration by the Minister for Economic Planning and Development as the biggest gamble in the nation's history. It is right for those of us on these benches to question whether it is a good gamble, and whether the Government know if it is a good gamble. In doing so, we are not saying it is not appropriate for a Government in certain circumstances to take gambles. Nor are we saying it is inappropriate in all circumstances for a Government to borrow on the scale this Government are proposing to borrow.

The question we must ask now is: is the package of measures they are putting together at the moment to use the money they are borrowing a good and justifiable gamble? The Government's own lack of clarity as to the wisdom of their gamble was well illustrated when the Minister for Economic Planning and Development was interviewed shortly after the publication of his White Paper. He was asked what would happen if the gamble failed. His answer was very vague indeed. He suggested we would be a little worse off; we would not have money we would otherwise have. If as he said it was the biggest gamble in the nation's history surely he should have been able to answer with greater clarity, greater frankness and greater forthrightness what would happen it the gamble failed.

Although we have a Government who are allegedly committed to planning, to projections ahead about what will happen as a result of actions taken now, we have not been told about this gamble what the stakes are, what the odds are, or when the race will be over and we will know whether our horse has won or lost. Neither of those three questions has been answered. Any punter would insist on knowing the answer to those three questions before parting with his money.

The Government's gamble on this occasion is more like backing both horses in a two-horse race and the only person who is likely to win is the bookie. I say this because I believe the gamble, the economic policy on which the borrowing is based, is defective in a number of important respects. First, the programme of expenditure of the money is not thought out. Secondly, there are five basic weaknesses in the proposals put forward which I will identify. I can best illustrate the lack of clear thought and foresight in the Government's economic policy by quoting from the White Paper, paragraph 1.8, page 11:

The measures already carried through and the further action to be provided for in the 1978 budget will complete the first phase of implementing the Government's development programme. The second phase will build on the recovery set in train by these measures. During this phase the emphasis will gradually shift from existing policies to maintain progress at a high level towards a third phase. This third phase will involve new policies for structural changes in the Irish economy—thus setting the scene for sustained and long-term economic and social development.

By admitting that the third phase is the phase in which the structural changes will take place in our economy, the Government are admitting they are prepared to spend money now on an economy which they realise needs structural changes before making those structural changes. If a businessman were approaching the same problem, if he bought a firm which needed structural changes, would his approach be that of the Government's? Would it be the approach of borrowing first to spend money on the existing structure as it stood and of putting back to the third phase—which may be at some indefinite time in the future—the decision to make the necessary structural changes? Would he do what I believe the Government should do, namely, before borrowing to identify the structural changes that have to be made, to make them and then borrow to finance the expansion of a modernised and structurally improved economy? By their own admission the Government have got their priorities wrong. They are prepared to spend now and then make the changes necessary later. Quite clearly that is not the way a sensible person would go about his business.

There are five basic weaknesses in the economic strategy being adopted by the Government and I propose not just to identify the weaknesses but also to suggest alternative strategies to those being adopted. First, we have an illthought-out industrial policy. Secondly, we have a very critical misunderstanding of the nature of the task of job creation in an open competitive economy such as ours. Thirdly, we have an improvident and short-term taxation policy. Fourthly, we have the failure to provide adequate tools for economic planning and for proper control by Parliament of the implementation of the plan and its targets and of public spending. Fifthly, we have an uncertain policy in relation to agriculture, our major industry.

I can best illustrate the uncertainty and lack of clarity of the Government's industrial policy by quoting from their White Paper. Paragraph 4 (7) states:

Priority will be given to improving employment in those areas of the country which suffered relatively worse during the recession. Plans for physical location of industry in the period 1977-80 reflects both this priority and the Government's concern that industrial development strategy should provide for an even spread of development throughout the country.

It is quite impossible, logically and practically, to give priority to areas where the need is most felt and also at the same time to have an even spread. You cannot do both at once. Either you have an even spread or you give priority. Clearly the Government have not made up their mind what they will do and their statement in paragraph 4 regarding their industrial strategy is completely meaningless and reflects their lack of any thought on the matter.

It is up to the Government to make a decision where the priorities should be, and setting up a consortium which they are proposing to do—which is nothing more than a very large talking shop and which will involve taking the chief executives of the major industrial and State enterprise bodies away from their desks where they can make real decisions in order that they may get involved in long discussions on macro-economic ideas—will not solve this dilemma. It is the Government's job to decide if priority should be given on an even basis throughout the economy or whether it should be given to those areas of greatest unemployment. Clearly the Government have not, and apparently will not, make up their mind on that issue. I should like to make my position quite clear. I believe priority should be given to the areas of highest unemployment, to those groups upon whom unemployment bears most heavily at the moment. I challenge the Government to state their priorities equally clearly and to get away from this vague attempt to have it both ways, to back both horses in a two-horse race.

There is a basic misunderstanding on the part of the Government of the role of a Government in job creation in an open economy. In an economy like ours job creation on a real and lasting basis can take place only if it takes the form of producing goods and services that other countries are prepared to buy. The type of job we should try to create is one that will be self-sustaining, that will sustain itself by its own produce, by selling the goods or services it produces.

What kind of jobs are the Government creating? What is their policy on job creation? Is it one that can survive on a self-sustaining basis in an open economy, competing with other economies? It is not. The job creation programme of the Government in terms of the budget and what they have done already has consisted in creating 2,000 public service jobs, paid for by the taxpayer, that are not independently self-sustaining. They are creating 2,100 building jobs, again paid for by the taxpayer, which by their nature are temporary and certainly not self-sustaining. There are also 5,000 proposed jobs for youth which, again, are not self-sustaining and which must be paid for by the taxpayer. In many cases these latter jobs are merely glorified training courses.

I calculate that every such job created on a non-self-sustaining basis within the public service require the income tax paid by three people outside the public service in order to maintain it. I make this calculation on the basis that on average people pay about 25 per cent of their income in income tax and, assuming that the salaries of those in the public service are equal to those outside it and public servants pay a tax of 25 per cent themselves, this leaves 75 per cent of the salaries to be paid for by the Exchequer. For that amount to be paid requires the income tax of three people in outside employment is needed in order to sustain each public service job.

This policy which is being adopted by the Government under the guise of job creation is creating an undesirable shift in resources from the directly productive sector of the economy, from the sector that is exporting and that which has to face competition from outside, to the public sector whose contribution at best is indirect so far as production and exports are concerned. I am not saying that the public sector does not contribute. It does in many cases but apart from State companies such as Bord na Móna its contribution is indirect. We are taking from the directly productive sector in order to create jobs in the indirectly productive public sector.

I favour action in the public sector to create jobs but not the kind of action taken by the Government. I favour action on the part of the commercial companies in the public sector. I should much prefer to see an expansion of jobs in Bord na Móna, which must stand the full wind of competition and which can export their products, than creating 2,000 jobs in the public service.

There is wrong emphasis in the form of the job creation that is going on, one that is not appropriate to our economy. I know the theory on which it is based—I am sure the hand of the Minister for Economic Planning and Development is to be seen here—the traditional Keynesian view of economic problems, that if you have underemployed resources the way to solve the problem is to boost aggregate demand.

The theory is that by the Government spending more than they are taking in they will boost aggregate demand, thus increasing demand for goods and services and creating employment. That theory certainly applies on a world scale. If America, Britain and Germany get together and decide to boost aggregate demand that can have the effect of raising employment in the capitalist world. But it certainly does not apply within a small open economy for the simple reason that, if this Government spend more than they take in, the results of that spending will not necessarily be felt in terms of increased demand for Irish goods and services. It will probably be felt in increased demand for imports. The proper approach and the proper economic theory to the solution of our economic problems is not a macro-Keynesian approach, which is the approach adopted by the Government, but rather a micro-economic sectoral approach which looks at the particular problems in individual sectors to see where we are uncompetitive and lacking in productivity, where we can improve, and spend money not in a global way across the board, as the Government are doing, but in the particular sectors where need for Government help can be identified.

I propose now to identify where I believe the Government should spend money. There are two basic areas in which action should be taken and, hopefully, can still be taken. First is in the area of promoting new product ideas. We have a habit of getting foreign enterprises which have their own productive ideas already developed to come in here with their ideas and set up their factories here. Insufficient attention is paid to developing new product ideas from our own technology. Secondly, on a micro-economic basis, we have to look at the weakness, the lack of competitiveness and the lack of productivity in our economy and indeed in our own public sector. An inefficient public service can indirectly affect exports just as much as an inefficient industrial sector because it can and does raise costs for the sector directly involved in production.

To deal first with the idea of creating new product ideas, obviously new product ideas result initially from research. But research agencies are not able to put these ideas on the market. We do not see An Foras Talúntais or the Institute for Industrial Research and Standards setting up companies. What they do is rely on entrepreneurs who may be reading their publications, picking up ideas and prepared to implement them. Most entrepreneurs are not technologists and in many cases would probably not understand the kind of language used in research publications, and so there is therefore a gap between the development of new research ideas by technologists and their implementation in the private sector by entrepreneurs who want to make money. In Northern Ireland that gap has been effectively bridged by the establishment of the Agricultural Trust which takes over ideas and implements them on a commercial basis. Once they are established as going concerns the Agricultural Trust sells off the enterprises, the patents or the ideas to a private company prepared to continue the enterprise and give employment. We need something like that, not just for agriculture but for the whole range of agricultural processing and for industry also.

We also need more Government help in the form of research and development. It is much more difficult now for new small industries to develop new ideas because of the EEC proposal in regard to product liability. Under this proposal, if someone is injured by a product the person who markets the product will be absolutely liable, regardless of fault, to compensate for the consequences to that person of consuming the product. This gives big companies a much greater advantage over small companies because they are likely to have research and development departments and be able to afford to take the risk of marketing new products without being afraid of the consequences. Clearly there is a role for the Government in helping small firms to develop and we need a much more active approach on the part of the IIRS, on the part of the ACC and the Agricultural Institute in this area by helping small struggling firms with ideas to develop those ideas on a commercial basis.

In this context, we need special concentration on food processing. There is an unfortunate belief that, because we produce the goods, Ireland is the best place on economic grounds to process those goods. In actual fact the best place for processing a product may be in the country of consumption. It will not be sufficient for us, therefore, to sit back and hope that the natural evolution of economic forces will mean agricultural processing will take place here because we produce the food. If you want to produce tinned food products you have to import the tins at great expense, fill them up and reexport them. If we are to have effective food processing we must have our own canning plants. We must have our own plants to produce the various packages required for processed foods. This is not an agricultural industry. It is a heavy technological industry. It is in that area we should see action by the Government and not in the creation of 2,000 more jobs in the civil service, 2,000 more jobs in the construction industry, so many more nurses and consultants, and so on. The Government should be tackling the basic problems which, to my mind, the Government are avoiding and, on their own admission, avoiding because they have relegated this kind of problem to what is described as the third phase, the never-never phase in their economic policy.

We need a tax incentive where the entrepreneur who sets up a new manufacturing industry and thereby creates employment is concerned. The relief could be complete in some cases provided the manufacturer employs a sufficient number of people. We have to recognise the disincentive that exists for people with ideas to leave a permanent pensionable post in the public service or some large corporation and go out on their own to set up an industry and try to make money when they have no pension cover and, if they fail, they have no job. To induce that person to leave the public sector calls for some considerable attraction. Money in the private sector is not being made by the person engaged in manufacture. It is being made by those engaged in speculation on the property market or in import agencies. They are the people who get rich quick. We must create a greater incentive for the manufacturer. That is why I believe an indiscriminate tax cut across the board for everyone is wrong. The tax cut should be selective and it should be given to those who are prepared to contribute directly to the creation of employment. It should be a relief on the personal tax of a person setting up a new enterprise and producing some product which has not been produced before.

Perhaps it could be related to the use of a patent for the first time. Such a tax exemption would not conflict with EEC Regulations because it would not be confined to the manufactured products being exported. It would be available to everybody wishing to set up here. It is more justified to be giving entire tax free status to an entrepreneur who is engaged in manufacturing and creating jobs than giving tax-free status to artists. The person we need to encourage is the man who creates jobs. If we are to have tax-free people in this economy the manufacturer on his personal tax is the man who should be tax free and not the artist.

Thought should be given to giving a tax incentive to corporate diversification. The trouble is that many large companies who have resources of finance, accountants, analysts and so forth, which could be used in setting up new enterprises are far too comfortable producing their existing product. It is only when their market may decline, as in the case of a cigarette company, that they are forced to turn to other products to see if they can diversify and develop. We can get new product ideas going in our economy through existing manufacturing companies getting into new areas of endeavour. We should consider the possibility of some increment off tax on companies who adopt new lines of production to their existing ones as long as the new lines are things not previously produced in this economy. This should be done regardless of whether the products are for export.

The advantage of a tax cut of that sort is that it will not be availed of, no money will be spent at all, unless the production takes place. Unless the production takes place there will be no income. It is not like a grant that is paid out with a hope for the best. Under the scheme I suggest a payout only takes place if production and jobs ensue. For instance, there is tremendous scope in our fishing industry for large companies already established to get involved in buying boats and ensuring that fish are properly processed in a sort of vertically integrated enterprise. Such a company could ensure that the boats are at sea at the time by employing two crews rather than the present system of skipper-owned boats. Under that system only one crew is involved and the boat is only at sea for about one-third of the time. Under a corporately developed fishing industry there is a possibility of having two crews operating the boats which could be at sea for greater periods resulting in greater productivity on the capital investment involved.

Another way we get new product ideas to the fore in our economy is by earlier promotion of young executives and younger people in industry. Promotion should be based on performance rather than seniority necessarily. I do not believe the Government can, in any sense, intervene and force private companies to do this because they will do it if they think it is best for themselves, but the Government can and should set an example. In the public service we should abandon the present procedure whereby in most cases promotion is made on the basis of seniority and not on the basis of performance. If the public sector set an example in that area it is one that would be followed in the private sector. Younger executives with better ideas would be brought to the fore. We would then have a situation like they have in America where the president of a company is often a man in his mid-thirties. They are a more successful economy in many ways than we are and we should ask ourselves if this is one of the reasons why.

I also feel that there is a need to look at our tax code to see if it is giving adequate incentive to labour-incentive industry. There has been an amount of lip service and some practical service given in this area, but it still makes more sense under the present tax code for á man to invest in a machine than to invest in employing an extra man or woman. He can get IDA capital grants, the money straight into his fist, from the IDA if he invests in a machine but, more important, under corporation tax he can get entire free depreciation and the cost of plant or buildings can be written off right away for tax purposes. The day he buys a machine it can be written off for tax purposes even though the full benefit from it may not ensue for ten or 15 years. If, on the other hand, he invests in a job as against a machine he cannot write the full cost of the job off in the first year. He can only claim the salary paid to the man he has employed over the ten-year period, as and when he pays the salary. Instead of getting the full ten-year cost of a newly-created job in the first year, as he could with a machine, he will have to wait ten years and get it in terms of claims for his income tax in each of those ten years on the basis of the expenses involved in employing that extra man.

We have an employment incentive scheme involved which is supposed to help labour-intensive industries and was introduced by the previous Government but it is only a partial subsidy and it is probably considered by most people to be a temporary scheme. If a person is creating a new job he is not looking to what he will get this year in terms of this scheme, he is looking ten years ahead. If he employs a man, particularly with all the safeguards that now exist in relation to unfair dismissals and so on, he wants to be sure that he will have the money to pay him not just now but ten years hence. Our present tax code does not provide an adequate incentive for people to employ men rather than purchasing a machine. If a man is employed the employer must subtract income tax and social insurance from his salary but no income tax or social insurance has to be paid by a machine.

I should now like to deal with three areas where I feel the Government could do something to get rid of inefficiencies in our existing social and economic structure. I should like to identify the areas which need action now but which the Government have by their own admission, relegated to the third phase of their economic programme having spent the money first with which they could make the changes. Firstly, there is room for elimination of inefficiencies in the public sector and, secondly, for a proper analysis of the relative productivity of different industrial sectors in this economy by comparison with other economies and taking action to remedy that. Thirdly, a detailed analysis should be carried out of the employment register and job-creating action taken on the basis of identified areas of unemployment rather than on the global basis that is now being adopted by the Government. In relation to eliminating inefficiencies in the public sector, I have already mentioned the abandonment of seniority in favour of promotion on the basis of performance but there is room for competition between semi-State bodies who may be engaged in similar areas. As long as those bodies are engaged in directly productive activity there is no reason why they should not compete with one another. For instance, the Government's decision to say that SFADCo must be brought in under the IDA because SFADCo is competing in a similar area with the IDA is a bad one because we are likely to have better performance from SFADCo and the IDA if they are allowed to continue to compete and their relative performance is open to comparison. In that way if SFADCo does better than the IDA the finger can be pointed at the IDA. If, however, the IDA take over the functions of SFADCo there will be no basis on which the performance of the IDA can be compared.

There is room for competition within the public sector as long as it is pro-ductively related competition. I also believe that where the Government provide a service to the community there should be a much greater consumer choice on the part of the public in relation to the use of those services. Wherever possible there should be an avoidance of the creation of State monopolies because State monopolies in the production of services almost inevitably lead to inefficiencies.

All this would be much more appropriate to the Estimates. All that detail does not really arise on the budget debate.

It arises in relation to the economic policy of the Government. I am dealing generally with the economic policy of the Government and where I cite detail it is merely to illustrate the general point I am making. I am not getting involved in detail for the sake of detail. I ask the Chair to respect my knowledge of Standing Orders in the House, because I know what is relevant. I have been in the House long enough to know that.

The Chair is in charge here. The Chair has listened to the Deputy for a long time. The Chair is prepared to give the Deputy every latitude. I have done that, but going deeply into detail on matters does not arise on a budget debate. The Deputy knows that. His experience of the House tells him that.

As I said, I am merely citing details to illustrate general points, not for its own sake. I can assure the Chair that I will not get involved in detailed discussion of individual aspects of the economy for any other reason than to illustrate points of general application. The idea of an RTE monopoly in broadcasting is undesirable. The idea of giving education grants to colleges rather than to students is undesirable. All the grants should be given to students so that they can shop around. There could be consumer choice and competition between educational institutions rather than the present situation where if a student wants to do a particular course he has only one choice as to where he can go. There is also room for greater use of subcontractors in the public sector in relation to Post Offices services, drainage and other such areas. These are some of the areas where there could be an improvement in competitiveness and efficiency in the public sector by following up those three basic ideas. That is all I wish to say about this matter.

I would now like to turn to the area of improving industrial productivity. Page 16 of the White Paper states——

I again suggest to the Deputy that I understand there will be a full debate on the White Paper. We are debating the budget, not the White Paper.

The Government's economic policy as reflected in the budget, by their own admission, is based on the White Paper.

That is the mistake the Deputy is making. We are not dealing with economic policy, which has been mentioned in passing. We are dealing with financial policy, taxation policy and the budget in general.

The budget is designed to affect the economy. The Government are spending money in order to reflate the economy. That is general economic policy. It is nonsensical to say that one can discuss the budget and not discuss economic policy. In paragraph 24 of the White Paper the Government stated that "the latest estimates show that the level of productivity in Ireland for 1974 compares unfavourably with other small Community countries. For instance, it is less than half that of Belgium, Luxem-bourg, Denmark and the Netherlands." I believe it is very undesirable that we should have an admission that in the first place the latest figures we have about comparative industrial productivity in the country are as old as 1974 and, secondly, that the Government have not immediately acted to set up a committee to look into individual sectors of the economy and say: "Where are we less productive than competing economies? What matters are involved in industry here which make it less productive than competing in other countries?" Something should be done immediately to get up to date figures and to act accordingly.

As the budget policy is directed to the relief of employment and the creation of jobs we need much more information about where the unemployed are—a proper analysis of the number unemployed. We are told we have 107,000 unemployed and that there are many more unemployed in the country whose lack of employment is not recorded in that figure.

But we have not had a strategy based on a detailed analysis of the live register. I believe we should before spending money on a job creation programme ask ourselves several questions. Where are the unemployed? How many of them are sole breadwinners for large families? How many of them are school leavers? How many of them are trainable and if so to what level? How many of them would be prepared to move from one area of the country to another if a job was offered to them? How many of them are genuinely seeking employment or are merely unemployable? Is there room for incentives to encourage people who are unemployed by giving them a little more in their unemployment benefit over and above what they are getting to go and take a training course? Is there a case for allowing people who are unemployed and who become employed through their own efforts, going out and finding a job in directly productive employment, to allow them to retain for some time in addition to their salary some of the money they were getting in unemployment benefit in order to get away from the suggestion that it is more attractive for some people not to work than to work? If those people were allowed to retain in addition to their salary or wages some of the unemployment benefit they were previously getting after having got a job through their own efforts, we would get over that situation.

The Government instead of analysing the unemployment register and finding out those details are adopting a global unemployment creation programme. Their endeavour is to create X thousand new jobs regardless of whether or not those jobs are designed to meet the needs of the unemployed. Nobody can tell me that creating jobs for hospital consultants is directly helping somebody who is signing on in Werburgh Street Employment Exchange to find a job. There are no consultants signing on in Werburg Street, and yet the creation of this sort of job is included in the figure which is put forward by the Government as its record in tackling the unemployment problem.

The danger of the Government's global approach is that the jobs in that sort of programme will not necessarily be provided where the unemployed are but in sectors for which the unemployed are untrained, because we have not got the information about their training levels, or perhaps the new jobs will be provided for people who already have jobs and are merely moving from one job to another or who do not really need jobs but are prepared to take them because they are offered to them at an attractive salary which makes it a little bit better than staying at home and looking after their families.

I believe that proceeding with this sort of job creation programme before one has done proper research into the existing level of unemployment, where the unemployed are and what sort of people they are, is putting the cart before the horse and is not getting the best return for the money being spent by the Government.

Another weakness in the economic strategy is that it is based on improvident tax policy. They are giving across the board concessions unrelated to direct increases in productivity or job creation. They are—this is more worrying on a long term basis—narrowing the tax base. They have abolished three taxes: rates on domestic dwellings, wealth tax and car tax. They are borrowing to do this. When the Government borrow ultimately that money has to be repaid by the taxpayers. The Government are creating a situation where a smaller group of taxes will have to repay borrowings which are being used to abolish other taxes. I believe in the economic theory that it is far better to have a larger number of taxes at a low rate than to have a few taxes at a high rate, which I believe will be the consequence of the Government's policy of abolishing some taxes and borrowing to do it. If there are a small number of taxes at a high rate there is more likely to be injustices and distortions in the proper distribution of production within the economy than if there were a larger number of taxes at a low rate raising the same amount of money.

The idea that, to get into office, one must promise to abolish a tax will mean that ultimately we will be left with only one tax, income tax. All the other taxes will be abolished because to get back into office each time the parties will have to promise to abolish yet another one. If there is only one tax paying for everything it will be at a very high rate which will create a great deal of injustice. Regardless of the merits of the individual taxes the idea of borrowing to abolish taxes of that sort rather than reducing the rate of all taxes across the board is the wrong economic approach.

We need also to look very hard at the way the Government are providing for an adequate review of the economic plan they are putting forward and also for a review of public spending, in particular by the Dáil. We are told that the White Paper is a plan, that it is a record of Government decisions. It is no such thing. It is only a Green Paper; it is not a White Paper at all because it contains only decisions that have been taken already and a certain series of vague hopes and forecasts. To be a real plan that document would need to contain specific targets, especially in relation to Government expenditure and taxation and, most importantly, a proper system for the review of the achievement of those targets particularly by this House. The paper does not provide for those sorts of systems of review. The absence of the provision in the White Paper, in the Government's economic plan generally, for setting up a Committee of this House to review the achievements of the targets set out in that plan is perhaps its greatest weakness of all, because public representatives, of all people, should be involved in the review of the plan.

I welcome the budget's commitment to a thorough-going assessment of public expenditure priorities. However, is this just reassuring rhetoric or does it mean something? Who will carry out the review? It seems that the people who will carry it out will be the civil service itself, the people by whom the money is already being spent. It is somewhat like asking somebody to be the judge in his own case. The problem is that because of the competition between ministries for success and for more money, for better promotion prospects, and because of the competition between experts who obviously want more money spent in their own fields, there is always within the public service a pressure for greater expenditure rather than for any thorough-going review of it, which is something the Government say and, I believe, sincerely want.

If the Government are to get the sort of assessment they want they need to look outside the existing public service for the means by which this review will take place. I would suggest three things: the setting up of a public expenditure commission; secondly, stronger local government; and, thirdly and most importantly, stronger Dáil control over spending. We need a public expenditure commission like the National Prices Commission which would hire consultants, review all Government spending and publish reports of its findings in relation to individual Departments. It should consist of people entirely independent. I do not think the National Economic and Social Council is enough because that body has too many jobs to do and contains too many vested interests to carry out the type of review necessary. Neither do I think the Departments of Finance and of the Public Service are enough because they are not independent and their activities are not public. They are only private bodies advising the Minister rather than one publishing independent reports regardless of what the Minister might think. Therefore, I would suggest a public expenditure commission like the National Prices Commission as a means of developing this area. We also need to delegate more functions to local government so long as local government raises the money itself for what it is spending. If people are raising the money themselves to pay at a local level for what they are spending they will be more responsible. The abolition of rates affords an opportunity for this to be done.

I should like to come now to what I believe to be the most important thing that can be done about public spending. I am sure the Chair will find that everything I am saying in this context is entirely relevant——

It is, of course, as long as the Deputy is dealing with expenditure, that is relevant.

The Chair might excuse my trepidation. There is a tremendous case for much stronger Dáil control of the way in which money is spent. In 1977 the Government spent £1,958 million. This money was spent with the approval, in theory, of the Dáil. That was on current services. They spent a further £418 million on capital services. Yet last year the Dáil devoted only 3.2 per cent of its 563 hours sitting, or 18 hours of the whole year, to reviewing expenditure of £19,000 million on current services.

This situation is getting worse because in 1969 approximately 29 per cent of the time was devoted to reviewing Estimates. Of the £1,670 million provided in the original current Estimates last year only £30 million was debated in this House. The rest was passed without any discussion—the money debated was the money for which the Minister of State now in the House is responsible, the Board of Works. There was a further £300 million in Supplementary Estimates. These were discussed, but at very short notice, in a debate which consisted of an average of half an hour for each Estimate, even though the Estimate might have consisted of some £40 million or £50 million. If that was a private company spending that sort of money, if we were members of the board of directors responsible for that sort of spending—as we are, as elected representatives of this House—would we be satisfied with that sort of review of public spending?

Indeed the Appropriation Bill, which gives statutory effect to the Estimates was not discussed at all in this House which is apparently a tradition. It was only discussed in the Seanad, and there in 1978. In other words, the Bill authorising the expenditure was not discussed in the Dáil at all. It was discussed in the Seanad in 1978 when every single penny it was approving had been spent already. Could any way of dealing with finance be more senseless than that? I am not blaming the present Government for that. I am as much responsible for it as any other Member of the House, indeed perhaps more responsible having been a member of the Government for four years. It should be pointed out very clearly as an area greatly in need of reform if we are serious, as the Minister says, about a reassessment of public spending. I believe that the way in which we deal with Estimates in this House is in conflict with the provisions of the Constitution. Article 17.1.1º says:

As soon as possible after the presentation to Dáil Éireann under Article 28 of this Constitution of the Estimates of receipts and the Estimates of expenditure of the State for any financial year, Dáil Éireann shall consider such Estimates.

That is quite specific—"Dáil Éireann shall consider such Estimates." Yet the vast majority of those Estimates last year were not considered until the very end of the year and then passed without any discussion at all. Therefore I do not believe that the provisions of the Constitution in this respect are being abided by at all. The answer to this would be to amend Standing Orders to allow Estimates to be considered, not in the year in which the money is being spent but in the preceding year. In other words, the Estimates for 1979 should be considered during 1978 so that the Dáil will have a say in the way in which the money will be spent, that it will be able to talk to the Minister responsible before he has spent the money and persuade him how it believes he should spend it. An opportunity should be given for a Committee Stage type debate on Estimates during which individual subheads could be discussed, and amendments tabled if necessary. That is the way Estimates are discussed in every country in the world except here and in Britain. It is foolish to think we can control expenditure if the only opportunity given to us to discuss money is after it has been spent. Another point is that Estimates should be presented in an improved form. Rather than giving us information about what is proposed for this year we should be told about the possible consequences in a period of five years in a way similar to the planned programming budget system in the US.

I will briefly deal with agricultural policy. The white paper in this respect is rather pessimistic, putting the annual growth rate at 5.7 per cent. The Coalition green paper put the rate at 6 per cent. I do not agree this scaling down is justified on the facts. The Government have not made any statement of their intention in relation to marketing. We have been promised a Grain Marketing Board, a Potato Marketing Board and a Co-ordinating body for agricultural marketing. None of these has happened. We are asking farmers to invest in the industry at a time when farm taxation policy creates uncertainty. We are told that the £60 PLV threshold multiplier system will be retained "for the time being". Quite clearly the Government will revise the thresholds downwards. If farmers are to invest they must know now what their tax status will be in the next five to ten years. The Government should tell them now what their long-term taxation programme will be. If a farmer knows that he will be in the tax net in three years he will make a certain set of decisions, but if he does not know he will make other decisions. If he opts for the multiplier system this year he will be stuck with it even though it may be doubled next year. However, I will deal with many such points on the Finance Bill.

Thought should be given to encouraging, through the tax code, the increasing of stock numbers on farms rather than have the present system which over-emphasises fixed investment in buildings, cement yards and so on. That is not of any benefit unless you have the stock numbers.

Listening to Deputy Bruton one would wonder if Fianna Fáil had been in Government uninter-ruptedly for 20 years or whether at any stage he had handed over the reins to a National Coalition. How could we have looked seriously at the unemployment situation without knowing exactly the type of jobs we need and the type of people unemployed? One of the biggest mistakes made by the Coalition during their years in office was their failure to have a census of the population. It would have been worth more than the £1¾ million it would have cost because we would have now some idea of the problems we have to face and we would have knowledge of possible solutions. I have a fair idea that some of the jobs we are creating are not suitable for the type of people who are unemployed, and that goes back not only to the lack of census figures but to the educational system. People turned out by schools today are not suitable for the jobs being created, and this in turn goes back to the academic-orientated educational system. The lack of a census was a mistake for which we are trying to make up lost ground. I was surprised to hear Deputy Bruton admit that the processing of our agricultural produce could not be done effectively in this country.

I did not say that. I said we should not assume it will be done automatically without a special effort being made by us.

The Deputy said there are many aspects of agricultural processing which, because of economies of scale, could not be done effectively here. I totally disagree with that type of thinking and with what lies behind it. We can look at the brand marks of the world and of Europe in particular with its 250 million consumers, and we have to consider the multinationals. I have a different outlook from that of Deputy Bruton. I believe that we can produce and process quality foods equal to that of any world product. We do not need economy-scaled production lines here: we can do it in small units when the people realise that we can specialise in one aspect of agriculture.

I agree, so long as we make a special effort.

We are discussing the Financial Resolution and we will not have a dialogue across the House.

The marketing of those products will pose a problem but it can be done by the initiation of brand names in large chain stores. Allied to that we can have our own brand on our products in the fashion of Kerrygold which has given us a national image in respect of the dairying industry.

The budget has been widely acclaimed. It is an unfortunate aspect of Irish life today that we do not see the budget in its true sense as an instrument of Government policy to shape the future of the economy for the 12 months ahead, we are inclined to look at it in terms of "what it can do for me." This budget has been acclaimed by everyone as expansionary. It is well designed to achieve its stated objectives. It has looked after most sectors but unfortunately it has done nothing for the plight of the Opposition who have not yet re-recovered from the frustration that we saw on their faces as they sat in stunned silence on budget day.

There was mixed reaction to the various aspects of the budget. Deputy Bruton was on the side of private enterprise to a large extent, but his partner in opposition doubted the wisdom of backing private enterprise to the extent this Government have backed it. The budget has been described as a calculated risk. Life in general is a gamble. Every decision made involves a certain amount of risk. As long as the risk is taken with the right strategy behind it I am prepared to go along with it. The situation here demanded that a risk be taken. I go along with the risk as long as everybody understands the type of risk necessary to attempt to solve our twin problems of high unemployment and inflation. The Minister made a very sane and correct approach in his budget to solving the problems of the nation. There are no winners or losers yet, and they will not be known until this time next year, until we see whether the challenge thrown out to the private sector and to every person in Ireland will be responded to. This is a once-off operation which has been described as a priming of the engine. We have 12 months in which to see if the budget will work. What options did we have? We could have reduced public expenditure, making our unemployment problem worse. We could have increased taxation reducing further the incentive to work and to invest. We had the option of not doing anything. A case was made that we need not have done anything, that the economy was coming out of a recession and that we had a 5 per cent growth rate. That would have been a very poor and dismal approach to our problems.

Deputy Bruton referred to the businessman's approach. Running a business is similar to running a country. A business has a chairman and a board of directors who consider policies coming up before them for decision. In this case the policies were put before the people prior to the general election in the Fianna Fáil manifesto which is better known as the political bible of the day. The people gave unqualified approval to the policies. The Minister for Finance in his budget is implementing the wishes of the people in relation to the direction which the economy should take over the next four or five years. Had the Minister taken another direction he would have been failing in his duty to the people. Last summer the people turned their backs on the half-baked socialism that was being applied here. They saw that it was getting them nowhere, that stagnation was the order of the day, and they wanted courageous leadership to take on our problems. They gave their unqualified approval to the Fianna Fáil manifesto. On budget day the Minister for Finance further implemented the promises that had been made in the election manifesto.

There is a stark comparison between the manifesto and the 14-point plan of our predecessors. We implemented more in the last six months than they implemented in 4½ years. One action is worth a million promises. The budget was a full implementation of the policy document which received the unqualified approval of the people. In his budget the Minister for Finance restored the incentive to work and the incentive to invest and produce. I expressed my views on the direction the Irish economy had taken over the last three or four years. Some members of the Opposition agreed with my views but because of their alliance with the Labour Party they were unable or unwilling to change their direction. It was only when they made some slight change in that direction with their budget last year that things began to look up. The incentive to work and to invest had disappeared and the uncertainty with which the farmers were faced slowed production. By slashing personal taxation the Minister restored the incentive to work. The wealth tax had created a disincentive to develop businesses and farms and I am sure Deputy Bruton agrees with the abolition of this tax. Wealth tax was never introduced in England although they are much nearer to being a social welfare state than we could ever hope to be. They in their wisdom saw at the last minute that it was not advisable, yet, for ideological reasons the Coalition Government introduced it here amid sustained opposition from Fianna Fáil. I am sure it came as no surprise to anybody that Fianna Fáil in their first budget abolished wealth tax thus restoring the incentive to develop businesses. A man will not be taxed now on the effort that he might put into developing either his farm or his business during his whole lifetime. We are still a private enterprise society by and large.

I was interested to hear the former Minister for Finance, Deputy Ryan, say that no money left the country either as a result of or prior to the introduction of wealth tax. He must know that millions of pounds left the country, not after the introduction of that legislation but prior to its introduction. He must know that accountants worked day and night in their efforts to find havens for money. Having regard to the type of economy we have I am prepared to accept the statement of the Central Bank that they could find no trace of such happenings, but Deputy Ryan is not so naïve as to believe that huge sums of money were not removed from the country. This money left the country at a time when it was needed most for development. We have a different approach. We believe in creating incentives and in giving recognition to enterprise and effort. Our predecessors seemed to have been of the opinion— and with tragic consequences—that it was easier to catch flies with vinegar rather than with honey. We believe in using honey.

The reliefs in respect of indexing capital gains and restructures are justifiable and badly needed. The situation in this regard was a disincentive both to the farming and to the business communities. I cannot envisage anyone in public life attempting to defend speculation in any form but if the end result of a tax that has been introduced is the prevention of development of business or of leaving a man wondering whether he should transfer his business, such tax should not be part of our taxation system.

The change in corporation tax should give the necessary impetus to anyone who is willing to avail of the opportunities. It is a realistic start and I trust it will be taken up. It is a concession that should pay for itself.

I concur fully with the sentiments expressed by the Minister in relation to the special place of the small industry. The small industry of today is the large industry of tomorrow. Very many of our large industries had humble beginnings but they developed to the extent that they could take their place in the economies of the world. The small industry will continue to contribute more than its fair share to the job-creation programme. I have witnessed in my own county the importance of the small industry down through the years. If we had a situation in which there was a small industry in every town and village processing what was produced locally, we could say that we had the real vision of a future Ireland. These are the types of industries that make such a big impact on the economy of rural Ireland. The occasion of this budget is the first time that the small industry has been given officially its rightful recognition. Profits from the small industry are the only source of reinvestment for the small industrialist. Consequently, in raising to £25,000 the tax free limit for the small industrialist, the Minister is taking a step in the right direction.

In many cases small industries are the product of local brains, of local entrepreneurs. These are the industries that come best through a recession or through other difficult times. The small industrialist has invested his money and his time and is prepared to work long hours to keep his business viable. These are the type of people we want to see becoming more involved in industry. They are the people who have confidence in themselves and who do not accept the myth that is perpetrated in parts of the country regarding Irish people not having the ability nor the enterprise to solve their problems. However, that instinct of confidence was to a large extent killed in the people. If we have done nothing more during the past eight months than to restore their confidence, our efforts have been worth while. People are happy now going about their daily work. It is time that the investment plans that were left lying on the bottom shelves in managers offices were taken out and activated. We are now a nation on the move. We are on the road to solving our problems and are not looking abroad to anybody else to solve them for us. The world does not owe us a living. Apart from the ability shown by Irish people at home, many of those who have gone abroad have also shown their ability to reach the top of the ladder. With Fianna Fáil's return to office confidence has been restored in the people.

We have never said that we could solve all the nation's problems in one year or indeed during one term of Government, but we said that we could make a good start.

Debate adjourned.
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