It is proposed to take business in the following order: Nos. 2, 3, 8 (resumed), 9, 10, 11 (resumed), 12 (resumed). Private Members' Business will be taken from 7 p.m. to 8.30 p.m., No. 19 (resumed).
Order of Business.
(Cavan-Monaghan): On the Order of Business, for some time I have been trying to raise in this House in one way or another the collapse of local services such as water supplies which are in chaos in this city and also in Cork and other parts of the country, refuse collection which has ceased——
The Deputy may not——
(Cavan-Monaghan): ——in Galway and Tralee, main road works which are at a standstill all over the country and environmental employment schemes which have also broken down. I have not been allowed to raise the matter. I understand the reason is that the Minister for the Environment disclaims responsibility in this area. If he is not responsible, who is? This House is voting at least 66? per cent of the money for these services, and I crave of you, Sir, to give me an opportunity on the Adjournment tonight to raise this matter.
If the Deputy is raising the matter on the adjournment I will communicate with him during the day.
(Cavan-Monaghan): I know that that is the modus operandi employed but it is quite unsatisfactory because I have not been allowed to raise it.
The Deputy may not discuss the matter in detail here. If that practice were permitted——
(Cavan-Monaghan): I do not propose to squabble with the Chair, but if I am not allowed this I will have to move the adjournment of the House in accordance with Standing Orders to discuss the matter in Government time. There is such a provision in Standing Orders and I intend to invoke that unless I am allowed to raise the matter on the adjournment.
The Deputy cannot intimidate the Chair into doing something on which the Chair has decided otherwise.
(Cavan-Monaghan): I am not trying to intimidate the Chair, but it is very frustrating to be endeavouring to raise this very urgent public matter and then to get a note——
The Chair has sympathy with the Deputy, but he must be confined and adhere to the strict criteria governing the matter.
(Cavan-Monaghan): I am grateful for the sympathy of the Chair but it does not solve my problem.
Is it not the case and would the Chair not so rule that in respect of any money voted by this House the responsibility rests with some member of the Government to answer for it? Is that not a basic principle of our parliamentary democracy?
The Chair would not be prepared to rule on such a wide matter as that. That could not be applied generally.
I would like to receive a ruling on that.
I would like to raise on the Adjournment a point also raised here, the matter of the dispute which is causing a shortage of water supplies in Dublin. I asked the Minister for the Environment yesterday whether it was his intention to intervene in that dispute. As there is no indication of his intentions in that respect I would like to raise the matter on the Adjournment.
I will communicate with the Deputy during the day.
Am I not entitled to seek a ruling on the question of ministerial responsibility for the expenditure of money?
The question of responsibility for expenditure of moneys and the question of administrative problems may be two very different things. The Chair is not prepared to give an omnibus ruling that would cover every question of responsibility that could possibly be raised in the House in relation to matters where money is involved.
I am seeking a ruling that if this House votes money which is spent on the authority of the Government there is Ministerial responsibility somewhere. I appreciate that the Chair may have difficulty in determining where it lies. Could I have a ruling on my general point?
I will have a look at it and let the Deputy know.
I seek permission to raise on the Adjournment, in support of my colleague Deputy O'Leary, the matter which has been raised. I ask you, in view of what has occurred in the past, to take every opportunity to ensure that whoever is responsible on that side of the House can be contacted so that this matter, which we have attempted to raise on a number of occasions, can be discussed tonight.
It is not the responsibility of the Chair to ensure that anybody is available at any time.
We need Ministerial intervention in the dispute which is causing the shortage of water.
(Cavan-Monaghan): I have tried to raise this on about six occasions in an orderly way.
The Deputy will appreciate that a Deputy persistently trying to raise something on the Adjournment does not necessarily make it something which is relevant.
(Interruptions.)
(Cavan-Monaghan): I cannot argue with the Chair, but the Chair is provoking argument. If this is not relevant in this House, then this House becomes meaningless. We vote millions and millions of £s to provide these services. We are told that the only Minister who I think could have responsibility, the Minister for the Environment, is not responsible and is apparently not interested.
If the Deputy proposes raising the matter I will communicate with him.