Deputy O'Leary has ten minutes left.
Private Members' Business. - Oil Supplies: Motion (Resumed).
The following motion was moved by Deputy Kelly on Tuesday, 8 May 1979:
That Dáil Éireann notes with grave concern the continuing and prospective shortages in oil supplies, and deplores the failure of the Government and of the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy to take early and effective steps to guarantee the maintenance of supplies to industry, agriculture, fishing, and socially essential services.
Debate resumed on amendment No. 1:
To delete all words after "Dáil Éireann" and substitute the following:
having regard to the general short-fall in oil supplies and to the need for consumers generally to make the best use of available supplies, has full confidence in the Government and in the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy to take such steps as they deem necessary to ensure the continued availability of supplies for our essential needs.
—(Minister of State at the Department of Industry, Commerce and Energy, Deputy R. Burke).
In the debate last evening several issues were raised in regard to the present crisis in supplies of oil petroleum products. There may be argument as to whether the situation confronting the country is described as a problem or a crisis. The Minister of State last night said that we did not have a crisis but we did have a problem. I do not think we need lose any sleep over the actual description of the situation other than to note that as it affects supplies in city garages there are queues and there are shortages. It is also to be noted that such shortages and such queues appear to coincide with price applications by the companies concerned. No one will deny that the Government, in common with other EEC countries, face a problem in relation to oil supplies generally. It has been pretty clear for some time that we were entering a period in which, if there was not actual scarcity of oil supplies, there certainly would be very sharp price increases and the most recent meeting of the OPEC oil Ministers gave evidence of that.
In regard to the handling of the situation the present administration may fairly be indicted for their apparent lack of preparedness. The Iranian troubles were so long in preparation and the consequences following from a disruption of the regime there so obvious that it is quite incomprehensible that this administration should have found itself so unprepared. The reason may be advanced that the full consequences of the supply situation may not have been known to the Government. The reason may be advanced also that the oil companies themselves are so much in control of the actual supply situation that they have such an accumulation of knowledge from their multi-national contacts, that they are in a superior situation to any small State like ours. However, one would have thought that a State as vulnerable as we are, which lacks the refining capacity even if it had the supplies to produce certain of the energy needed, would be even more alert in a situation like that, a situation which was predictable at the time of the events which led to the fall of the late regime in Iran.
The late regime is right.
The late regime, yes. We are promised a national oil corporation and I want to make it clear that from these benches we support this concept. We are not, as yet, in full possession of all the details of that operation, whether, for example, it will extend into supply and distribution itself. But it necessarily follows from the State's vulnerability in the area of energy that there must be some State presence guarding the national interest, to the extent to which it can be guarded, because it would appear that the oil companies, with their monopoly control of the market, their multi-national contacts abroad, have our national economy by the throat. Any administration anxious to protect the national interest are on the right path in suggesting an oil corporation.
What is less satisfactory is this administration's handling of the immediate crisis we have now. There appears to be immense confusion on the order of priorities to be followed in the present situation. The Minister of State last night denied that there is any factual basis for the introduction of rationing. The point must be made, pretty legitimately, that we do have a rationing situation in several parts of the country at present in the sense that there is shortage, that there are queues and that petrol products are not available as they were formerly. In any case, the order of priorities drawn up does appear not to make any order of preference as between the needs of particular sectors of industry and of agriculture, and as regards the area of hospitals and the health services it does not appear to distinguish in that area very adequately.
There is one special category—and though all categories may plead with justice that their case is one that calls for attention, there is one special category—I refer to householders who de-pend on domestic heating oil as a sole source of heating in their homes. Certain companies have completely refused to give them supplies. Granted that there is a scarcity, it would appear that much more work needs to be done in differentiating between deserving cases. Without exaggerating the situation it can be said that many families in these circumstances, families with young children, are placed in a very difficult position indeed. Their homes were originally constructed some years back, with State encouragement, and State grants, and have no other form of heating other than central heating. It is true that the last administration began to reverse this trend after 1973, when it appeared that we were entering a totally different era in terms of energy supply and oil prices generally. Such families at present are faced with a very serious situation and one wonders whether there is not a more compassionate way of dealing with their plight. Granted, again, that we have had another aggravating factor in the weather experienced recently, which has been totally unseasonable. We have had spells of cold weather not associated with this time of year.
Another instance of the culpability of the Government would appear to be their lack of knowledge of the actual storage situation within the State, their lack of knowledge of the actual grades held by the companies. The worry still persists that the EEC requirement of 90 days' storage was not fully lived up to within the jurisdiction of the State and that amounts in line with this 90-day figure were held in other jurisdictions.
Nobody in this debate would suggest that there is any magic wand that can be waved over the entire energy scene to produce solutions satisfactory to all. Nobody from these benches will deny that we face a very uncertain future in relation to our energy requirements. We face a constant price rise in the product here. I said last night that it is reasonably predictable that we shall see a three-phase price "hike" for the remainder of this year in relation to petroleum products, with natural consequences for our own inflation rate. This very disturbing future supply and price situation will have effect and impact on other plans of the Government. Now, the Minister has made it clear that he sees no reason for a White Paper on this new and evolving situation.
The Deputy should conclude.
I conclude by saying that this Government have been found wanting in their handling of this immediate crisis and that it is not sufficient to point to a future national oil corporation, which I support. It is not sufficient to point to that happy day to avert the justified criticism of their bad handling, their inept handling of the present supply situation, which is extremely confusing.
I wish to deal, first of all, with the amount of petrol sold in this present year, so far, by comparison with the corresponding period of last year. In the first quarter of this year 9.8 per cent more petrol was sold to consumers than in the corresponding quarter last year. Broken down month by month, the figures show that in January 9.7 per cent more was sold to customers, in February 20 per cent more. was sold and in March 2 per cent more. I will not have the final figures for April for a few days but indications are that either exactly the same or marginally more than in April 1978 was sold. The projected figures for May indicate that the same amount of petrol will be supplied to consumers here as was supplied in May 1978. These figures, which are accurate and factual, cannot sustain any sort of allegation of widespread shortage or whatever.
The rise in demand for petrol is in the region of 9 to 10 per cent and that is caused for the most part by our increased economic activity and by our growth rate. The shortfall is, therefore, the difference between 110 per cent of last year's figures and whatever is supplied. It would appear that a shortfall only began to appear in March. In fact there was considerable excess sold in the month of February. We have to face the fact that we need 110 per cent of last year's supply if we are to continue using petrol and oil generally at the rate we want and we must also face the fact that we, like many other countries, are very wasteful consumers. Even still, psychologically, we have not yet as a nation faced up to the fact that there is a serious problem in the world. It is not of crisis proportions if everybody keeps their heads and acts sensibly both internally in each country and internationally.
We have to face the fact that oil is simply not available in the quantities that we would like it and that we will have some shortages. If some people are temporarily short, that is an unfortunate fact of life that we must get used to. In virtually every speech I made about energy since I became responsible for energy I harped time and again about the vulnerability of this country in regard to imported oil and the need to adapt our way of thinking and our way of life to the fact that oil will not be permanently available to the extent that we and the rest of the world would like it, in the relatively short term as well as in the long term.
We are criticised apparently for not foreseeing and taking action to forestall the limited shortages we have had in the last month or six weeks. Everybody knows, except perhaps those who take part in debates trying to score political points, that this problem was caused by the serious political upheaval in Iran. One could see a problem looming up in Iran for several months before it finally exploded; but even if one were to foretell for example that the Shah's Government was going to fall, what could we have done at that stage other than in a very limited and temporary way? In relation to foretelling six months ago that the Shah of Iran would fall, if we did not foresee it we were in rather good company. The CIA, regarded as one of the premier intelligence organisations in the world—at least they were in that category although I do not know how they rate nowadays—are reputed to have advised the President of the United States almost up to the last day that the Shah was virtually impregnable. The former Foreign Secretary of Britain, Dr. David Owen, up to a very late stage in the day made speeches on behalf of Britain saying how important and necessary it was that the Shah be supported because they could see him being there indefinitely.
This sudden upheaval took the world by surprise, to say the least of it, and naturally the consequences which flowed from it in terms of oil took the world by surprise. I make it clear here and now that even if the problems that exist in Iran in terms of production were to cease overnight—unhappily they will not—we are still facing a very uncertain future in regard to oil supplies. It has been suggested that because Iran is now back at about half its previous exporting capacity the problem should not be serious now. Unfortunately at the time that Iran came back to about 50 per cent of its previous level of exports, Saudi Arabia was cutting back its increased production by approximately the same amount and the result is that oil is every bit as scarce now as it was a month or two ago and this is likely to continue for the remainder of this year.
I do not foresee major problems for us in the summer, although we will continue to have some problems in regard to petrol, but I can foresee that we will have quite serious problems next winter if we do not knuckle down to, first of all, a psychological acceptance of the fact that these are the facts of life and that we cannot continue to dissipate oil and oil products in the way we have been and in the way we are doing every day. I travel the road between Limerick and Dublin very regularly and I have never seen heavier traffic on that road than I have seen in recent weeks, I know this city and Limerick city well and I have never seen heavier traffic in either of them than I have in the last few weeks. This is in a country which should by now know that we have a shortfall in oil supply, that we have problems in relation to gas diesel oil, which have been overcome with some hardship to some people by the order I made. Obviously, I cannot make a similar order in relation to petrol, because one cannot categorise people in the same way.
We are facing a situation for which some people suggest rationing. I do not go along with that frame of mind. It is a blunt instrument, a crude and unnecessarily severe way of dealing with what should be a limited problem. Petrol is being bought at present at a rate that is considerably in excess of necessary usage. These queues, I am sorry to learn, have started to reappear, in Dublin at any rate, within the last few days. The oil companies suggest that they are to a great extent caused by psychological factors. I am sure that is right. Nonetheless it is a fact of life and it means that petrol is being taken out of the system. This psychological move is creating a shortage where there would not otherwise be a shortage. This is something I regret very much. The country as a whole will have to realise that if we all go on in this way we will have unpleasant consequences and that is something that I, and I am sure the great majority, do not want to see.
So far as gas diesel oil is concerned, I made an order some weeks ago which I think has had the effect of rectifying the problem except for odd isolated incidents. We get an odd complaint still that there are individuals who have temporary difficulty in getting supply even though they are in the priority category and should be able to get supplies. I regret this but they are not widespread or major problems. We have had, in effect, to rule out the great majority of deliveries of diesel for home heating but, on my instructions, my Department have been very liberal in giving exemptions for people who suffer any form of hardship, whether through illness, age or for any other genuine reason. I have also made it clear that oil is to be made available to blocks of flats where there is no other means of heating.
Unhappily, the problems in relation to petrol are not as easily soluble as the problems were in relation to gas diesel oil. The spread of users is different and it is not possible to categorise them in the same way. There are various alternatives if one wanted to stop short of full rationing. We could consider measures that are being implemented or being considered by other countries such as prohibiting the use of certain cars on certain days or prohibiting the owners of cars with odd numbers from buying petrol on days with even numbers and vice versa. Such measures are being considered and have been partly implemented in certain countries and if we had to think in terms of trying to control petrol usage I think we would operate on those lines before resorting to full rationing. That is very unpleasant and difficult and would have quite serious consequences for the economy, particularly in relation to tourism.
The outlook in the longer term—and we should be blunt about it in this House—is not good and the Irish people as a whole will have to adjust their thinking psychologically to this kind of situation. The present difficulties are not of our making. We are a small country. We are manfully seeking to cope with the problem that is entirely external so far as we are concerned but which has potentially quite serious consequences for us.
One topic that was mentioned in the debate, particularly by Deputy Kelly, was the question of prices. I hope I do not paraphrase the Deputy incorrectly and I am sure he will correct me if I do. I was not in the House last night for the debate because I had an official engagement but from reading his speech today from the unrevised transcript it appeared he was strongly of the opinion that we should use the price mechanism in order to solve the supply situation.
I am well aware that I could use the price mechanism to solve our supply situation. I could flood this country in petrol and diesel oil tomorrow until we were swimming in the stuff if I forgot about the consumer interest and let it rip so far as prices are concerned. However, I have different responsibilities in my Ministry. The Government have a number of apparently conflicting responsibilities in the sense that they and I have a duty to look after the consumer as best we can consistent with our efforts to keep supply at a reasonable level.
There is one country in Europe that has no difficulty in terms of supply, namely, Germany. They have no price control of any kind and anybody is free to sell any form of oil product at any price he wishes. As a result there is no scarcity of any kind in Germany and the same situation applies in Switzerland, I think. Germany is a country that perhaps can afford to follow that policy. Ireland is not. We cannot afford to do that. If I were to let prices rip to the German level tomorrow morning it would cost this country an extra £100 million a year in the deficit on our balance of payments. We cannot afford that kind of situation. We have got to solve our problems other than by the lazy easy way that affluent countries can afford. We have got to be fair to the Irish consumer, and to the suppliers and we must try to keep our supplies at a reasonable level. We have got to remind them—even though some people think they should never be reminded of this—that they have a duty to this country to look after it and to meet its reasonable needs. They might well be reminded that for very many years, back to the time when we got our independence, they have had a free run here. I am sure the profits made here during the decades are not insubstantial. Any major company that has a responsible attitude will have to learn to cope with times of difficulty.
I do not want to say a great deal more than I have said on the question of prices. Already we have had two price increases this year and we will certainly have more. In fact, I think we will have several more. Only today, I saw an application to the National Prices Commission for an increase from one major oil company in addition to the increases already granted. The size of it almost winded me. The commission will proceed to examine the application and the question of my making a decision on it will not arise until I get their recommendation. We must face the fact that we will have many more price increases, perhaps several this year alone, depending on what OPEC do in June and what happens in the second half of the year. Even with substantial increases, I still have no guarantee that we will have total adequacy of supply for our exceptionally high and growing demand. I cannot still guarantee that. I could do it if I repealed all prices legislation and orders, but I am not prepared to do that. I must think of the national interest and the consumers' interest.
Without going into any detail I want to give an indication in broad terms—I must keep it in broad terms lest I breach any information that I have received confidentially in the course of price applications—of some of the problems we face in relation to prices. Most of the oil companies selling in Ireland, or their small Irish subsidiaries, tell me that they are incurring losses. A representative of one company said they are incurring a substantial loss. I do not doubt it on the figures he gave me. I examined in some detail the price at which he is buying the product from his parent company. He has no say in it at all. He is simply sent a tanker-load of the product and an invoice and he has no say in what the price will be.
I got some of my staff to examine in detail the level of that price and how it was made up, and even though that company have been losing in the past three or four months a relatively substantial amount of money in Ireland, nevertheless the world-wide conglomerate of which the Irish subsidiary are an insignificant part are still making substantial profits on their oil sales to Ireland, and the substantial profit they are making on oil sales to Ireland far outweigh the loss which they are incurring at their retail distribution end here.
I am afraid this is something one cannot in all conscience disregard. I cannot say when a representative of that company comes to me looking for a price increase that I will simply and solely look only at the accounts of the Irish subsidiary. I feel in duty bound to go back along the line and, in going back along the line, I have seen—I cannot give the details of how I have seen it because it might give away too much information—and my staff have checked it, that the price at which that oil is being charged to Ireland is so high that it is giving a very substantial profit to the supplying company that far outweighs any loss they might incur at the distribution level.
Can I in conscience disregard that? I do not think I can, and this is one of the difficulties we and every country faces when dealing with multinational oil companies. We have had a situation here that although most of the companies have genuinely done their best, some of them are perhaps less enthusiastic to try to meet current demand, and one of them which had 5 per cent of the market here let us down entirely. For weeks on end we had not anything coming from them. If we did not have that situation of one company letting us down entirely, I think the others would have been able to manage relatively satisfactorily without giving us the sort of consequences we have had.
A country like us in many ways, which has had that difficulty and which has had substantial price problems, is New Zealand. The New Zealanders have taken the view that they cannot pay the kind of prices being asked for, and there is a shortage of petrol in New Zealand. I admire them for the stand they have taken. Of course they are much less vulnerable than we are. They do not use fuel oil at all because they have tremendous hydro electricity reserves, lots of spare gas, and they do not use home heating to the same extent we do. Nevertheless one admires their refusal to pay what they regard as an exorbitant price. They have had to put up with some hardship as a result. I am afraid we must face the fact that we may have to put up with some hardship because we cannot simply take the easy way out that rich countries can.
I referred before to what I see as a vital need for a national oil corporation here. It has taken a long time to get this off the ground. I started work on it last year, but it is a major undertaking in legislative and administrative terms, and while progress has been made I cannot guarantee that the legislation will be enacted within a few months. Indeed I cannot see it being enacted before Christmas at the earliest, and possibly even a bit later.
I have discussed this with my Government colleagues. I told them about how important it is for us, particularly facing next winter when we should be in a position to have some standby reserves of our own, independent of the oil companies operating here. I have asked my colleagues to agree, which they have done, to my forming a limited company under the Companies Act to act as a sort of precursor to the proposed statutory oil corporation and whose powers during the three or six months of their existence will be confined mainly to purchasing oil and arranging for its distribution, and if it is crude, arranging to have it refined and made available for the Irish market.
However, I want to make it clear that the proposed national oil corporation or their precursor whose formation is now in train, will not solve our problems in the short term. They will only alleviate our possible problems next winter and next year in a relatively marginal way. A company like that must be got off the ground and staff must be recruited. My great regret is that this was not done years ago. My amazement is that it was not done immediately after the 1973 oil crisis. As far as I can see, apart from Luxembourg, this is the only country in the EEC that does not have an oil corporation of this kind. They are invaluable to many of the countries which have them.
Last night, Deputy Kelly was very disparaging about this proposal. With the sort of inferiority complex Fine Gael have about this country, he felt such a corporation could not succeed, that we did not have people who knew anything about oil——
The Minister is the only person who does not know anything about it——
One sees this inferiority complex being continually repeated by him and his colleagues. I have every confidence that a national oil corporation can be a success here as it has been elsewhere. Last night Deputy Kelly gave a list of two or three national oil companies which last year had losses. As always, he was selective in his quotation. He did not make any reference to those that made substantial profits and thereby strengthened their respective countries by their strong trading position in the oil world.
It will take us quite a time to build up to the kind of strength we should like or that would even approach that of similar corporation in other countries, but we have got to start this necessary task as soon as possible, and the sooner the better. That is why I decided to form the limited company to which I have referred, as a temporary measure which will be dissolved in time and their assets and liabilities taken over by a statutory national oil corporation when the legislation has been passed by the Oireachtas.
In the long term I can see a national oil corporation being of considerable assistance here, but it would be unrealistic for anybody to think that such a corporation will become the major oil distributor here in a short time. It is quite possible that their contribution could be as low as 5 or 10 per cent of our needs for several years. One of the dangers I see in forming the corporation is that it may give the multinational oil companies the idea that we are taking them off the hook, that we are relieving them of their responsibility. That is not so. The multinationals operate in nearly every other western European country side by side with the national oil corporations. Here the multinational companies have had a free run in the past 50 years and they have obligations to their consumers.
We are the fastest growing market for oil in Europe. We have considerable growth and I can see this national oil corporation taking up a lot of that growth as it arises, but this does not lessen the obligations of the multinational oil companies in any way. This is a matter about which there has been a great deal of talk and a half an hour does not give one time to review all the aspects of it that one would wish to. We have problems but we, the Irish people, are making what could be a relatively minor problem which we could easily cope with into a serious one which will cause great damage to the economy and to the life of the nation if we continue to act irresponsibly in the way we have been doing. I do not know if pleas of this kind fall on deaf ears. Many pleas I made in relation to oil in the last 12 months have fallen on deaf ears. I hope there is realisation of the fact that we have difficulties and that we will have to cut our cloth accordingly.
In the last 30 minutes we have had a very depressing speech from the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy. He has outlined the difficulties and has at last admitted that there are problems. While the Minister said he has sounded warnings of danger in the past 12 months the fact is that they have not been successful and I doubt very much if he has sounded them to the extent he gives us to understand tonight.
Less than five weeks ago I recall reading in a newspaper that the Energy Secretary in the UK, Mr. Benn, was very concerned about the energy problems in his country, a country that is 85 per cent self-sufficient in oil. In the same issue of the newspaper the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy stated that there was no reason for any concern in this country. That from a Minister in a country which is nil self-sufficient in oil supplies is something that baffled me then and, having listened to the Minister tonight, baffles me more now.
The Minister said that 9.8 per cent more petrol was sold this year so far than was sold in 1978. That may be so. He puts it down to increased economic activity. That is absolutely irrelevant. The fact is that even that increased consumption does not meet current demand and it is demand we must go on. If supplies do not meet demand there is a shortage, and that is what we have.
I am glad that the Minister of State, Deputy Burke, is in the House. I was not present last night but I read his speech. He gave the impression that there was no great shortage. This morning I had the privilege of driving through some of the Minister of State's constituency and found very long queues on the main Belfast road. Indeed in one case, in Upper Drumcondra, there was a double line of cars blocking the main Dublin-Belfast road. This is because of a shortage, which may be a crisis or a problem, we do not know which. However, going into semantics or definitions of words at this stage is nonsensical, because if one is waiting in a car for an hour to get up to a petrol pump that is the reality and that means there is a shortage.
The Minister said in a very sombre, ominous speech, leading us into the valley of despondency, that he cannot see any immediate solution to the problem and that in fact in the long term we will still have problems because of the energy shortage. The Minister—and I am grateful for it—has moved ground on this issue. Up to recently the Minister and the Government would not even admit that there was a problem. How can one approach a solution to a problem if one does not admit the problem exists? It is one of the prerequisites for a solution. As a result of the failure of the Government to admit the problem we have had an appalling and deplorable indifference by the Government to the grave situation that now confronts us.
This problem was highly predictable not a year or nine months ago but three or four months ago. From the beginning of this year until recently the Minister had not admitted that a problem exists even though as far back as last January oil stocks—and I understand we normally keep 90 days' supply—fell by 20 days. That is my information. There was a repetition of this in February. That was three months ago. Yet we are told that nobody knew there was a problem until March. The Minister should have known that this was going on and should have sounded his sombre warnings and taken action, but he failed to do so. When other people pointed out that there might be a problem confronting us in the short term the Minister gave figures which conflicted greatly with the figures given by people in the trade. There was confusion, chaos and panic buying as a result of the grave degree of uncertainty which took hold of the community at large.
The Minister might be right in saying that a mile long queue of cars this morning is a psychological reaction by people in a chaotic or uncertain state of mind. However, the Minister must bear some responsibility for that reaction because, through the initial inactivity and the later confusion caused by conflicting figures given by him and his Department, he has caused this kind of situation. As the situation got worse the Minister had to admit that there was a problem, but then his reaction was that the companies were hoarding oil. He was pointing the finger of accusation at them. They were hoarding it in the hope of a rise in price. We now know that this took place to a very minor degree. There was no major hoarding but a very genuine degree of shortage of different types and grades of oil. The accusation of hoarding and monopolies did not play the major part in the situation that the Minister would lead the people to believe it did. The net result of this is that the Minister, as he has done tonight, has faced the House squarely and stated that there are problems of supply and that they will continue. When he did take action he took it along specific lines and tried to ensure that areas of priority got supplies.
But in the overall context the Minister is still pointing an accusing finger at the people. Indeed, he strongly implied that in the case of petrol hundreds of thousands, and possibly millions of gallons were being wasted by the people. That is a very serious allegation to make. But the Minister and his Government are to a large degree responsible because some 20 or 21 months ago in that now infamous manifesto the people were told that car tax would be abolished and it was abolished; let us give full credit where credit is due. But in 1979 the equivalent of the amount written off in car tax was taken back in the form of partial withdrawal of food subsidies. The end result of the abolition of car tax was that we had in excess of 100,000 new cars on the road in 1978 resulting in extra purchase of imported oil and possibly, by the law of averages, extra wastage of petrol. So the Minister, even though he points the finger at the people and implies strongly that they are wasting petrol as he has done tonight, must bear some responsibility for that fact. The petrol situation, as the Minister said, will get worse. The admission by the Minister tonight that the national corporation may relieve the problem partially but will not solve the problem is quite right. What I would like to ask at this stage is what is being done now to conserve this precious energy, which is becoming scarcer and scarcer, in order to ensure that our economy is not held up to ransom by so-called unscrupulous monopolies of oil companies?
On the question of tourism, for example, I have here in front of me a note from my colleague, Deputy O'Donnell, who, because of illness, is unable to be here to speak on this motion. He tells me that at Shannon Airport the Aer Rianta station has no petrol at the moment which means that tourists coming in and leasing cars for the duration of their vacation cannot get petrol. This is a very serious matter particularly at a major airport. That is the kind of thing that the Minister should be looking at. On the question of tourism in general I expected the Minister to give us some indication tonight of what plans he had to ensure that this major industry will not fall flat on its face this year. At the moment, due to other circumstances this industry is literally on its knees. I will not go into that area now but the Minister is quite well aware of what I am referring to. On top of that the blatant inactivity by the Minister and the lack of any idea of what might be done to relieve the situation is obvious. No new ideas have been forthcoming tonight.
On the question of diesel oil there are very definite areas which are not being served with adequate supplies of diesel even for basic essential work like farming. I am told indeed that in north County Dublin there is a grave shortage of diesel among the farming community.
There is one other area which is causing grave concern at the moment and the Minister is aware of it. I have in my possession a letter dated 9 May, which I received legitimately, the original of which the Minister was in receipt of today. It is from the Irish Overseas Transport Association. These people represent the major portion of road hauliers who are in the export business and operate on the Continent. I wish to quote two or three paragraphs from this letter which will bear out exactly what I am talking about. The Minister referred to the question of the equitable distribution of diesel oil and he said that the situation in regard to this was under control, that the problem was practically solved except in minor areas here and there. Road haulage is a very important area. It impinges on industry, particularly manufacturing industry, and on farming. Unless one can shift goods after having manufactured them or shift produce after having reaped the harvest the whole economy grinds to a halt. The IOTA have written to the Minister saying:
Although statements were made in the Dáil to the effect that there was no crisis it must be very evident to you that this is not an exact assessment of the situation. Members of this association who are responsible for the haulage overseas of Irish exports, in particular fresh and frozen meat, have trucks lying idle and are unable to get sufficient fuel to move. In a previous statement by you transport was included in the category of essential services and we must ask you to implement this assurance by issuing instructions that supplies should be delivered by the oil companies to points from which our members may draw their requirements.
Further down it is stated:
One of our members has 16 loads of exports for overseas haulage this week and he has no diesel in his storage tanks. We are now advised that Irish hauliers are finding it difficult to obtain supplies going through England.
This surely is a damning indictment of the Minister for his failure to ensure that this kind of service, which is absolutely essential to our economy, is kept moving. That is just one letter. The Minister said that he had letters of complaint from areas now and again but this surely is a responsible body of people who are working in a very sensitive area dealing in fresh and frozen meat and unless they can be supplied a large area of our economy, agriculture, could be in trouble.
On the question of domestic heating, while the Minister may have made every effort to ensure supplies where oil is essential, for example in the case of hospitals, old people's homes and so on, it is now well known that this system of distribution is open to terrible abuse and that because of this people for whom some of this oil was intended are not getting supplies. The end result of all this is that the Department expect the companies to bear the odium of deciding who is and who is not a compassionate case. This is an unfortunate situation and the most unfortunate aspect of it is that at the end of the line we have helpless people suffering because they do not know where to turn.
The Minister stated tonight that there was one company who let the country down but he did not name the company. I have no intention of naming them but he should have qualified that statement. The company in question were not in a position to supply this country simply because the source of the major volume of their product was Iran, which dried up over a period due to political instability. This kind of allegation against a company is misleading and unfair. The Minister, in saying this, is trying to convince the people that he is a tough man taking on the oil companies. We saw what happened three weeks ago when he came back from official business abroad to take on the oil companies, as the press said. The exercise ended up in the Minister approving a price increase, which could have been done without all the ballyhoo and the impression given that he was a tough man. He knew that a price increase was imminent and at the end of the day he came out blood spattered having had to approve a price increase.
The Minister's statement tonight was, as he said, blunt but it came slightly late. It was blunt in the sense that he told us that he has now a further price application on his desk from the National Prices Commission which in due course will be processed. He repeated in his statement tonight that we will probably end up with several other price increases this year. This is very straight, blunt talk but it is about time the country were given the facts. Tonight's speech is a far cry from the Minister's stand a few weeks ago when he denied that there was even a problem, when he said there was no crisis.
With regard to consumers the Minister said that he could flood the country in oil if he wished provided he paid the price and ultimately the consumers paid a vastly escalating price. Nobody can deny that the Minister is not capable of doing that but, as he said, he has a responsibility to consumers. As Deputy Kelly said one way in which to conserve this very precious resource is through conservation. The abolition of car tax had the very opposite effect when we had over-usage of this precious resource. What has the Minister in mind besides the control of prices on behalf of consumers?
There are many areas of conservation the Minister might get himself involved in to ensure some kind of conservation of this resource. There is, for example, energy labelling, which they have elsewhere. This would demand that equipment would be labelled showing consumption of energy but this has not been done.
With regard to housing and insulation in housing a very practical approach would have been for the Minister to do something about encouraging people to instal insulation in their homes to conserve heating oil. What is happening? The Government are demanding a VAT rating of 10 per cent on insulation. That is in direct contrast to what is happening across the water where not only is insulation free of VAT but a grant is given for the installation of insulating material. If the Minister is serious about looking after the consumer and ensuring that he pays the minimum price for this product, apart from the control of price at the point of sale of oil, petrol and diesel, there are other areas to which he could give some attention with, hopefully, a favourable result for the consumer.
We now have a major problem on our hands, which has become a very urgent one. It is not a psychological problem, as the Minister might suggest because there are people who must have a supply of petrol or diesel for their business. A few weeks ago I recall the Minister of State calling people who topped up their tanks criminals. I can visualise circumstances in which the topping up of a tank could be a criminal act by a consumer. People are so uncertain about the future, because of the lack of information, the unrealistic approach and a failure to admit that there is a problem by the Government, that they are topping up their tanks, while there are queues all over the country and petrol stations are open for an hour and closed for five or six hours and no petrol stations open at weekends.
I appreciate that this is election year and that we will be facing elections in a month's time. I appreciate the political reality of the Minister and the Fianna Fáil Party. I believe, notwithstanding that, that at this time strong, real action must be taken and the sooner it is taken the better. I hazard a guess that the Minister, having issued his ominous warnings about the future is getting ready the road to really put the boot in on 8 June after the elections are over.
I would like to praise the Minister and the Department in relation to the stand they have taken particularly in relation to the oil companies. I was surprised to hear Deputy O'Toole say tonight that we were the only country with an oil shortage and petrol queues. I read in yesterday's Evening Herald that somebody in California pulled a gun on the other people in a petrol queue, and that yet another person had his dinner while he was waiting. We have not reached that stage yet. It warms the cockles of my heart to see, in spite of the Opposition's lack of confidence in us as a country——
It is the Minister I have no confidence in.
That we can stand up and say we are going to do something and it is typical of the Minister and the Department to say that we cannot do this in isolation. We now have a very important arena, the EEC, which should have a common energy policy.
I was disappointed to hear Deputy Kelly and Deputy O'Toole defending the multinational oil companies. A group of these companies has made more money in one year than all the OPEC countries. I do not understand how anybody could defend a group who are exploiting a commodity which is so vital to our economy. I would like to see within the national oil corporation a country to country exchange of oil because this is very essential. Profits should not be made at the expense of lives.
I would like to refer to conservation. South Tipperary County Council brought in experts to see how best they could conserve energy. They have forecast how much they can save in a certain period. Other county councils should follow their example.
The Deputy should tell his Minister.
A common energy policy within the Community must assist the processing of any deposits discovered in any member state. The EEC can no longer stand in isolation and make their own arrangements. It is time they came together to defend the right of the Community. With a consumer body of 280 million people they have the power, the right and the goodwill to deal with the oil producing countries. This will be done in the very near future. It will be part of our policy in the EEC elections to ensure that this comprehensive, common policy will come about in the EEC. The Common Market is about people and resources for the common good. That is essentially the policy we want to implement.
I hope the national oil corporation will be unanimously approved by Deputies, who should have a responsible attitude to our future energy needs, and that alternative energy sources will be investigated fully. I hope too that people like Deputy Kelly and Deputy O'Toole will bear the national interest in mind at this stage and not try to cause people to panic buy by the kind of statements they have been making over the past few weeks.
We had a very tame Minister here this evening. He has been a very muted man compared with the kind of headlines he was reaching for at the beginning of April. I noticed in the course of his speech—I agreed with a great deal of it—that there was not a word about how the trouble at the end of March and the beginning of April had been caused by concealment or misrepresentation of oil stocks. That was a major part of the front which was put up by the Minister and the Government at that time. The wicked multinationals were telling lies about their stocks until the Sherlock Holmes in the Department took out his dip-stick and found that the stocks were greater than they said. The Minister had to climb down two nights ago when, in common justice, he had to admit they had been right all along and he was looking in the wrong tank. There was no reason at any time for him not to be absolutely clear about the level of the stocks because there are customs officials there every single day reporting for excise purposes on the levels of stocks and various grades.
There was not a word today about the companies trying to get higher prices by squeezing supplies. That was another cheap headlines he got and allowed others to get for him. There was not a word today about people needlessly topping up. I noticed the Minister allowed Deputy O'Toole to get away with this.
After last night's correction, I did not want to do it again.
There was not a word this evening about how there was no real scarcity at all, that it was all an invention. These are themes which, on the odd occasion the Minister was in the country in March and April—and they were not too often—came easily to him, but he was a very quiet man this evening. It was very easy to talk to him this evening. He produced long-term assessments of our energy situation which, as Deputy O'Toole said, were sombre and depressing. I am sorry to say I have to agree with him. The outlook is sombre and depressing. I do not want to say anything which would make it appear that I want to devalue the warning he gave. I wish he had restricted himself all along to giving these warnings instead of appearing to be taking on people who were only laughing at him.
Towards the end of his speech the Minister adverted for the first time to what had been said here yesterday evening when he said that I had been very anxious to use the price mechanism as a means of flooding the country with oil and diesel. I am not anxious to throw away money any more than the Minister is. If I were in the Minister's job I would have to think, as he does, about the balance of payments, the revenue, the impact on the economy, taking money out of the country, taking so much out of our economy and putting it into the economy of the Persian Gulf and so on.
These are things he had to think of but he did not admit that we still have the cheapest petrol in Europe. It is evident to anyone who stands at Donnybrook Bridge in the morning, or any other bridge or main road coming into the city, what little respect people have for petrol or what it costs. As the Minister said people are grossly wasteful in the way they use petrol and every form of energy. You do not waste anything you think is expensive. That is an axiom that could be put in a child's book of economics for six or eight year olds. Something a man appreciates as being expensive, as taking a large sum out of his earnings, he does not waste. He takes very good care not to waste it.
We see the way the Irish use their cars, heat their homes and use energy of all descriptions. We see the way builders build and sell houses called detached, but you would scarcely put a couple of cats between them. They are only detached in name. Cats would scrape each other if they passed between these so-called detached houses which are so grossly wasteful in energy. Since we are speaking bluntly this evening, it is only fair to say that energy and sources of energy are regarded as cheap in this country. I do not care how much whinging there is about £1 for a gallon of petrol and so forth, the Irish people, from the way they behave, still think it is cheap. If they thought it was dear they would not behave as they do.
The Minister is right in calling them wasteful, as he did this evening, but I do not think one can blow hot and cold. One might observe people being grossly prodigal in the way they use petrol and oil which has to be hauled 2,000 miles, refined, retailed, distributed, docketed and invoiced before the Deputy can put it in his car and zoom around South Tip-perary, and he is still only charged £1 for a gallon. You barely can buy a large whiskey for that money these days. I do not want to labour this point too much, but we have the cheapest petrol and oil in Europe. I respect the Minister's anxiety not to push up the CPI and I respect genuinely what he said this evening about trying to offer some opposition to people who are making exorbitant demands. But we are not in the situation that we can pawn the stocks. If you find yourself with a pistol held to your head by an oil company you cast around even more desperately for some alternative source of supply. If the oil-supplying countries or the oil companies give themselves a bad name in this part of the world they will pay dearly for it in time to come.
The Minister of State opposite accused me last night and on a previous occasion-and the Minister supported him at Question Time the other day-of being the darling of the oil companies, or else he said that they were my darlings, I . forget which. It was one or the other or possibly both. The oil companies and I were in a nice little inter-personal relationship. That kind of approach is all very well in a students' debating society or even in here, but on a national level such an approach is contemptible. I said last night and I repeat that I have no oil company shares. An old aunt of mine left me some about 20 years ago. I was a student at the time and it was not long before I sold them. Since that day I have never had a half-penny's interest in an oil company. I have no friends, relations or neighbours in oil companies. To run a national policy on the grounds that there is a certain group of commercial interests which you can blackguard is the wrong way to do it, particularly when you are only covering up your inertia, lack of planning, lack of action, and lack of foresight.
I want to say something about the multinational conglomerates that the Minister was belabouring here this evening. What was Ferenka, which the Minister said he was so keen to keep in the country, but a multinational or an affiliate or subsidiary ofAKZO, one of the biggest multinationals in Europe? What is Mostek, whom he is so pleased to have got in here with their very advanced technology, but a multinational? What is Asahi?
They are not oil companies.
Now, Sir, do not start eating up my time.
I am trying to save the Deputy's time.
I have seven minutes left. What are these but multinationals? What is Asahi in Deputy O'Toole's constituency but a multinational? Let us not be sleveen about it, we are damned glad to have them here. If they were not here there would be not 100,000 but 200,000 unemployed in the country. The IDA, to whom we are always throwing bouquets, have said in their last report that the multinational corporations here are better from the point of view of our exports situation simply because they are multinationals, because they have affiliates in other countries and inter-affiliate trading relations which makes it easier for them to sell their products abroad. I care nothing for any company, national, multinational or anything else, except to the extent that it will benefit the people whom we are supposed to be representing here. I resent-not deeply because I do not take it seriously but I must go through the motions of resenting-being called the darling of the multinationals or they being described as my darlings. I do not give a damn about them except to the extent that they can contribute to the wellbeing of this people. In justice also, they should not be immediatdiy blackguarded and lies should not be told about them to cover up the mistakes, failures and neglects of Ministers in Government.
Only the other day I learned in regard to the telephone service that we are thinking now, because we cannot manage the industrial relations in our telephone service, that we might hive it off to the private sector. Of course, we have not checked that out with the POWU yet.
This is not oil, either, Deputy.
Who has been called in to advise us on what might we might do with our telephone system? The Bell Corporation. What are they but a multinational.
The Bell Corporation have nothing to do with oil.
They have relevance because multinationals have been in the eye of the storm here since this thing started.
We are not discussing multinationals.
We are. I beg your pardon, Sir. The Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy is right in doing his best to try to intensify the off-shore exploration. That is one of the things that have to be done here because of the energy corner we are in. He is trying to get foreign exploration firms to intensify their efforts here. He may be disarmingly modest, but does he think that his voice does not reach any further than the walls of this room? What will the corporation think about being invited to come in here to do off-shore exploration and at the same time knowing that they will be under the eye of a Minister who has a neurosis about multinationals and about their possible profiteering and who will be anxious if he can, to squeeze the last whiff out of them? That is not literally true but the competitors we have will be very anxious to make those people believe that it is true.
Deputy M. O'Leary said here last night that he was in favour of a national oil corporation. I am in favour of a national oil corporation, but one that will not be just a joke, that will have proper personnel, experts and consultants, people who know their business. There is no more complicated, complex, devious and difficult business in the world than the oil business. With the greatest respect for this couple of dozen officials in the Minister's Department, I say that not one of them qualifies as an expert in oil. The Minister's own commerical adviser who, he admitted here, has been frequently engaged in advising him on oil, knows absolutely nothing about oil. He has no experience in the oil business. That is no skin off his nose. That is nothing against him as a man or a commercial adviser. He has no experience in these matters. Where are we going to get the expertise?
Is it corrrect for the Deputy to cast reflection on the ability or otherwise of such a person?
I am trying to make up my mind as to whether Deputy Kelly is attacking and identifying a person outside the House. If he is, he should not be.
(Interruptions.)
I have only three minutes left. I regard the Minister as having laid down here this evening an insurance for himself. He is signalling well in advance that this thing may not amount to very much. If that was a genuine, sincere admission that he has not got all the answers I will say no more about it, and I will assume in his favour that is the case. I will not make comments about a purely cosmetic operation. However, when we see the one really spectacular opportunity open to this country which somebody sought to grasp with both hands, namely getting a slice for this country of an oilfield which is in a politically relatively stable area and within geographical reach of us-that is the Norwegian field-and when there is talk on foot that the Norwegians might make some of that field available to people other than themselves, when Irish national fishing waters and deals about fishing boats for Ireland are being talked about in the context of a possible exchange with that facility, I want to know why the national oil corporation are not going to get in on that. That is what a national oil corporation is for. But no, it is the 'Aran oil consortium, Aran Energy Limited, a private company in whom the Minister has a very minute shareholding, who are envisaged for the Norwegian field. That is a long day's work and I cannot do it justice in three minutes.
Is Deputy Kelly making an allegation lgainst the Minister now?
No.
It seems the Chair that he is and that at this age of the night he should withdraw it.
I have made no allegation.
He made the allegation that due to the fact at he had a share in a certain company, things were going—
No.
That is the way the House and the Chair understood it.
I beg your pardon. He has a share as Minister not a personal share at all. As a matter of fact it was the former Minister, Deputy J. Keating, who acquired the share.
That is not the way it appeared to the House.
I beg your pardon, I am glad of the opportunity of clearing that. Of course I mean that the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy is the shareholder.
That is the Government.
It is the Minister for Finance who has most of the shares in most of these companies and nO one thinks that Deputy R. Ryan or Deputy Colley is in question. If a national oil corporation is being set up, on the one hand, and if the one real chance we have of getting our own hand on our own oil supply is being considered, on the other, it is the national oil corporation who will get it. I am amazed that not one word is said about that, that it appears, so far as I can see, to be a buying organisation and a distributing organisation without the expertise either to buy or to distribute. That is all that is envisaged for it. I am sorry to say, although I wish the Minister and his Department all the best in this difficult situation-and I will support them constructively-1 am not optimistic about the future of that.
Amendment put.
The Dail divided: Ta, 67; Nil, 36.
Tá
|
Ahern, Bertie.Ahern, Kit,Alien, Lorcan.Andrews, Niall.Aylward, Liam.Barrett, Sylvester.Hrady, Gerard.Brady, Vincent.Briscoe, Ben.Browne, Sean. de Valera, Vivion.Doherty, Scan,Farrell, Joe.Filgate, Eddie,Fitzgerald, Gene.Fitzpatrick, Tom. (Dublin South-Central).Fitzsimons, James N.Flynn, Padraig.Fox, Christopher J.French, Sean.Gallagher, Dennis.Geoghegan-Quinn, Maire.Haughey, Charles J.Hussey, Thomas.Keegan, Sean.Kenneally, William.Kileen, Tim.Killilea, Mark.Lalor, Patrick J.Lawlor, Liam.Lemass, Eileen.Lenihan, Brian.Leonard, Tom. |
Burke. Raphael P.Callanan, John.Calleary, Sean.Colley, George.Conaghan, Hugh.Cowen, Bernard.Cronin, Jerry.Daly, Brendan.Davern, Noel.de Valera, Sile. Leyden, Terry.Lynch, Jack.McCreevy, Charlie.McEllistrim, Thomas.MacSharry, Ray.Meaney, Tom.Molloy, Robert,Moore, Sean.Mortey, P. J.Murphy, Ciaran P.Noonan, Michael.O'Connor, Timothy C.O'Donoghue, Martin.O'Hanlon, Rory.0'K.ennedy, Michael.O'Malley, Desmond.Reynolds, Albert.Smith, Michael.Tunney, Jim.Walsh, Joe.Walsh, Sean.Wilson, John P.Woods, Michael J.Wyse, Pearse. |
Níl
|
Barry, Peter.Barry, Richard,Begley, Michael.Belton, Luke.Bermingham, Joseph.Boland, John.liruton, John.Burke, Joan.Byrne, Hugh.Clinton, Mark,Cluskey, Frank.Conlan, John F,Cosgrave, Liam.Cosgrave, Michael J.Creed, Donal.D'Arcy, Michael J.Desmond, Eileen.Donnellan, John F. |
Enright, Thomas W.FitzGerald, Garret.Fitzpatrick, Tom. (Cavan-Monaghan).Horgan, John.Keating, Michael.Kelly. John.Kenny, Enda.Lipper, Mick.McMahon, Larry.Mannion, John M.O'Brien, Fergus.O'Brien, William.O'Connell, John.O'Toole, Paddy.Pattison, Seamus.Quinn, Ruairi.Taylor, Frank.Tully, James. |
Tellers: Ta, Deputies P. Lalor and Briscoe; Nil, Deputies Creed and Horgan.
Amendment declared carried.
Motion, as amended, put and agreed to.