It is proposed to take Nos. 6 and 5.
Order of Business.
May I ask the Tánaiste, through you, Sir, if the House can expect any statement or any information whatever today on the meeting which took place yesterday in Brussels between the Minister for Foreign Affairs and the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland? I ask because on a television programme last night the Minister for Foreign Affairs indicated that he was disappointed that the question asked yesterday by Deputy Gerry Collins was not allowed so that he could have dealt with in and also because there is a great deal of irresponsible speculation in the newspapers on what exactly the meeting was about, based, I believe, on inspired leaks from the Northern Ireland Office?
The Chair cannot be influenced by the disappointment of a member of the Government that a certain matter has not been allowed or was ruled out of order. The Chair is bound by and must proceed according to Standing Orders and precedents. If the Chair were to do otherwise and allowed someone to give an answer whenever he so wished and disallowed it in other circumstances, the Chair would simply lose control. The Chair ruled yesterday, and he is now ruling again, that this matter does not properly arise on the Order of Business.
Of course one accepts your authority in this matter but it seems extraordinary that an unprecedented event happened in which there is great public interest and enormous media speculation, that the Minister indicates he would like to tell the House about the matter but that we are prevented from hearing him. Could the Tánaiste find some way today of giving us information about this extraordinary meeting that took place because, quite frankly, we do not accept the explanations that are being floated with regard to it. A meeting of that sort has implications for work on which we are all engaged in another area. Taking all these things into account, would the Tánaiste be of assistance to the House sometime today on this matter?
The Chair wants to make this clear. It appears sometimes from reports on what is said that the Chair would not allow this or that. The Chair is operating Standing Orders and the Chair also feels that he should state that while complaints are made in the House regularly about this and that not being permitted, no efforts seem to be made at the Committee on Procedure and Privileges even to complain about this——
It is too late then.
It is not too late for the next time.
I suggest to the Tánaiste that either he or the Minister concerned would avail of the procedure of a statement in the House with regard to this matter.
I suggest that since this Dáil first assembled, there have been numerous occasions on which matters have been arranged through the Whips. As a matter of fact the Whips seem to get on very well and perhaps this matter should be pursued in an orderly way through them.
Two weeks ago in this House we were told by the Government that a deal had been completed in relation to Clondalkin Paper Mills, that negotiations were going on and would continue to 30 November with a UK company which may or may not alter the situation. It is now 1 December and would the Tánaiste tell the House, in fairness to the workers in the Clondalkin area, what the position is, if the arrangement with the UK company has been advanced and finalised or whether it is the Canadian company with whom final arrangements are being made?
The Chair regrets he had to rule again that that does not arise on the Order of Business. It is not reasonable that this should be raised day after day when the Chair has made it clear that, under procedures, I cannot allow it. We could have a two hours debate on this if it was allowed to develop.
This is a ridiculous situation.
If the Deputy thinks so he had better take steps to raise it in some other way or to rectify the situation, because the Chair has no authority to allow it.
Perhaps I may refresh your memory: we were told in the middle of——
I am not going to have a debate on it, Deputy.
——a Private Members' debate that a certain agreement had been reached——
The Deputy has other avenues, both long and short-term, to explore. That is out of order as the Deputy knows well. He is not that innocent.
It is accepted generally that the deal was a major Government con job although it was reported by many newspapers as being a major victory.
The Deputy will resume his seat.
It was a con job for the by-election.
Can the Tánaiste assure the House that the local government elections will be held as scheduled in 1984.
Go bhfóire Dia orainn.
There was a question answered yesterday about this.
The Government have avoided answering this question for the past six months. Let us have the answer now.
On a point of order, there is no rule of this House by which you can rule that question out of order.
Where is the Government's political courage?
I am ruling this out of order. It was raised on the Order of Business on Tuesday and also by way of a question that Deputy Leyden had down for yesterday. Deputies are seeking now to raise it again. They may not do so.
Were you not told what happened at the Fine Gael Party meeting?
In the budget statement on 9 February last the Government promised to introduce a family income supplement scheme. The scheme has been postponed on a number of occasions but in the last statement issued on the matter, that was on 21 July, it was promised for December. Can the Tánaiste tell us the date in December on which the scheme is to be introduced?
That matter is still under consideration by the Government.
During the course of the discussion on the Private Members' Bill last evening, you will recall that the Minister agreed to withdraw his amendment and suggested that, if the Opposition would agree, a special committee of the House would be established to consider the matters contained in the Bill. Can the Tánaiste indicate now when this special committee will be established and also whether advice obtained from the Attorney General will be made available to the committee. I am sure the Tánaiste will accept that it is imperative that the committee meet immediately in view of the fact that the cases in question are continuing to be heard in the District Court.
In response to a question from the Chair last evening it was made clear that a motion would be introduced on Tuesday next. At that time all of this can be discussed so there is no need to raise it on the Order of Business today.
But you will accept, in the light of matters mentioned during the debate, that there is extreme urgency attaching to this committee. You will accept also that the intervention from the Minister came——
I put the question as to whether it was agreed that the amendment be withdrawn and the Bill be referred to a special committee and the answer was yes.
I am asking when will the special committee sit?
The matter is being discussed on Tuesday next.
This is a very important matter and I want to know whether the advice of the Attorney General will be made available to the committee.
The Chair is not the Minister for everything. He should allow Ministers answer for themselves. The Government are defeated and disgraced as the people of Dublin Central have let them know.
One question——
Will the Deputy please resume his seat? Even his leader is trying to indicate to him that he should sit down.
I do not accept that that is so. Can the Tánaiste indicate to the House whether the Attorney General's advice will be made available to the special committee? It is important that we have the answer to this question in our consideration of the matter next Tuesday.
This would be in order for Private Members' Business on Tuesday next but it is not in order now.
Why not give the Tánaiste the opportunity of replying?
Because the Chair is charged with running this House in accordance with Standing Orders and with precedents.
In regard to the Electoral (Amendment) Bill, for the guidance of our Members who wish to contribute to the debate, can you indicate whether it will be in order for us to tease out from the Government and particularly from the Minister for the Environment whether local elections will be held in the coming year?
In the opinion of the Chair, the matter of local elections does not arise on that Bill. Perhaps a passing reference to them may be made.
Therefore, we may make passing references to local elections during the debate on the Bill.
I said, "may".
Regarding a written reply given yesterday concerning depositors in the PMPS, can the Tánaiste confirm that this matter has been decided on by the Government and that there will be no indemnification of the depositors of the PMPS?
That matter was the subject of a written reply yesterday.
But I should like the Tánaiste to clarify the position as to whether a decision on that matter has been taken by the Government.
I would remind the Deputy that this is not an instant or an impromptu question.
I take it that the nod from the Tánaiste indicates that the answer is in the affirmative?
Yes.
I hope this will be a question of third time lucky. I wish to raise on the Adjournment the question of the circumstances surrounding the denial to an Irish citizen in Mountjoy of the right to speak in the Irish language.
The Chair will communicate with the Deputy.
Will you allow the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs to make a statement today on the disastrous state of telecommunications between Donegal and Dublin, as our county is almost isolated in so far as telecommunications are concerned.
It is not a question of allowing the Minister——
It is a very important matter.
I am pleased to be able to inform the Deputy that he is being invited to a reception next week to mark the opening——
The Minister is not in order.
There is not much point in that if we cannot get through to Donegal.
The Deputy does not even like good news.
Will the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs lay before the House the recommendations of the conciliation and arbitration scheme in respect of subpost-masters in Ireland? I received a written reply yesterday in which the Minister stated that he would do so but may I remind him——
You may not remind the Minister and you may not make a speech.
He needs reminding because on 1 January Bord Telecom and An Bord Post will take over the running of his Department and if the recommendations to which I have referred are not accepted before then, they will be irrelevant. Therefore, I am asking him to accept the independent conciliation and arbitration recommendations which affect 2,000 postmasters who are spread throughout every constituency.
The Deputy is out of order.
On Tuesday I sought to have accepted a Private Notice Question on the problem in Cork concerning the failure of the Cork Gas Company to maintain a full and comprehensive service for their consumers and also the implications of the recent price increase allowed to the company.
The Chair will communicate with the Deputy.
I wish to raise on the Adjournment the question of the continuing closures of the various PMPA subsidiaries and the effect of those closures on the staff concerned.
The Chair will communicate with the Deputy.