asked the Minister for the Environment if he is aware of the deepening crisis in the building industry; and the action he proposes to take to reverse the decline.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Building Industry.
12.
I am aware of the difficulties facing the building industry, but I do not accept that there is a deepening crisis in the industry, as the Deputy's question implies. On the contrary the evidence available to me indicates that considerable progress will be made this year towards ending the decline in the industry's output, providing clear evidence that the Government's policies in relation to the industry are now beginning to pay dividends.
The Government's policy has been twofold — to maintain public investment at the highest sustainable levels and to create the general economic environment, providing appropriate incentives, that will lead to increased private investment in construction, which is essential for a soundly based expansion of output.
Since the Government took office, public capital investment in construction, for example, in the roads programme, has been maintained at high levels despite the difficult financial climate; this year it will show an overall increase of 3½ per cent compared with 1985. In relation to private investment. I would refer the Deputy to the package of employment, taxation and financial incentives announced by the Taoiseach on 23 October last. The package is particularly important to the construction industry as it includes major incentives for the development of the Custom House dock site and of designated inner city areas in Dublin, Limerick and Cork, a generous new scheme of house improvement grants and grants for the provision of community, leisure and other facilities in areas of social need.
I would also direct the Deputy's attention to my recent announcement that a construction industry development council are to be established within the next few months. The council will be representative of all interests in the building industry and their main function will be to consider and make recommendations on matters related to the performance of the industry.
I am satisfied that these measures, as I have outlined them, will provide a substantial boost to the industry and will result in additional output and employment.
Would the Minister reassess his opinion that there is not a deepening crisis in view of the fact that cement sales have fallen by 17 per cent in the past two years, employment is exactly one half of what it was in 1980, the number of houses completed in the past three years has fallen by 25 per cent and VAT has increased from 5 per cent to 10 per cent?
We can all get into this game of pointing to figures and statistics. I have my statistics here which I hope refute what the Deputy is saying. The following pre-budget forecasts for the construction industry output in 1986 were published by the Central Bank, Jerome Casey and Company Limited and the ESRI. The Central Bank suggested that there would be a 1 per cent fall in output in the construction industry; Jerome Casey also suggested a 1 per cent fall; and he ESRI said there would be an increase of 2 per cent. That is the basis for some optimism for a turnaround in the industry.
Over the past three years the output volume changes which were declining in 1983, 1984 and 1985, were showing a lesser decline each year, from minus 15.3 per cent in volume in 1983 to minus 8.1 per cent in 1984 and an estimated minus 5 per cent in 1985. That is a reason for optimism and a basis for me to say there is not a deepening crisis. The opposite is the case.
Taking the Minister's figures that there is likely to be a 1 per cent increase, or something of that order, these figures were arrived at using an extremely low base and as such are doing little more than holding the situation. Would the Minister not accept, as the whole country accepts, that there is an unemployment figure of 17 per cent and in the building industry that figure stands at over 40 per cent? Those two figures have to be the bottom line. I do not think they are disputable and as such that has to amount to a crisis. If 40 per cent of workers in a certain industry are unemployed, that has to be a crisis and steps will have to be taken to remedy the situation.
How does the Minister define a crisis? There is a crisis in the building industry because employment is almost half what it was in 1980.
At no stage did I say there was not a problem for the construction industry. I took issue with Deputy Brennan when he said the crisis was deepening. I was trying to demonstrate from the figures I have that the crisis is not deepening. The action being taken by this Government is beginning to reverse the situation — admittedly the numbers unemployed were very high in the year quoted by Deputy Andrews, but there has been a decline since then — and to show that the deepening effect has been sharply cut back over the past number of years. This has been to a large extent the result of the amount of money being devoted by this Government to the building industry. Almost 70 per cent of the money spent in the construction industry is provided out of capital sums for Government construction. I am sure you, a Cheann Comhairle, do not want me to go through a long list of what has been done in the past three years, but if I may, I would like to reflect on what we have been doing in that period.
That would be more appropriate to the Estimate debate.
In his reply to the question the Minister referred to the designated areas of the Custom House Docks and the inner city areas in Dublin, Cork and Limerick but this morning on the Order of Business we were told that the legislation covering these matters will not be introduced even during the next session and the Minister referred to setting up a development council in the building industry and said there would be meetings. This kind of meeting goes on all the time between the trade union movement, the CIF and those involved in the industry. These are all cosmetic changes. There is nothing new. We are not getting to the root cause of the problem.
The Deputy is aware that the incentive package will be brought forward during the Finance Bill so that investors and people involved in the construction industry will be aware of the extent of the total package which will be available for the Customs House Docks and the inner city areas of Dublin, Cork and Limerick. The Bill giving legislative effect to all this will come later.
In the autumn.
When the package comes out we will set up a board which can operate until the Bill becomes law giving them legislative backing for decisions they may have to make. I intend to set up the board immediately the Finance Bill has been approved so that the board can get on with the business of vetting the various construction and financial proposals which will be applicable to these areas. I can assure the Deputy that already some very effective proposals are coming before us and, as soon as the Finance Bill is passed, work will be started in this area.
I am calling the next question.
May I ask a final supplementary?
I will not allow another speech.
I never make speeches.
You invariably make speeches.
I was asked a second supplementary. I am setting up this council in response to the demands from all sides of the industry.
Unemployment in Ireland today is 17 per cent and in other EC countries it is 10 per cent.
Is that a question?
Yes. Can the Minister confirm that in the building industry the unemployment figure is 40 per cent? Surely in those circumstances there is a crisis in that industry. Will the Minister confirm those figures and equate them with the fact that there is a crisis?
I have not at any stage tried to say that the construction industry is not in a very difficult situation. I have been saying that the actions taken by this Government, over the past year or so, particularly since 22 October when the Barretstown package was announced, and the amounts of money we have made available through the capital programme, show that we are making a very big effort to back up that industry. On the private side, there has been a large fall off in the construction area. The amount of money being made available from the public sector is at the highest level possible in these very difficult times, and I have demonstrated that, because of the initiatives we have taken, unemployment is slowing down and one very important agency has said that there will be a turnaround in this industry this year.
I would like to ask the Minister to confirm——
We are having an argument here. Question Time is about getting information.
Is the unemployment figure 40 per cent?
Question Time is not just an exchange of views, or trying to get one person to change his view. It is getting facts. Then we can have a debate on those facts later. It is now 3.30 p.m. and I must move to questions nominated for priority.
It is very unfair. People are getting up and putting supplementary questions——
I have said it is 3.30 p.m. and I must move to priority questions.
I wish to protest at the way we are squeezed out. Yesterday I had a question at 3.30 p.m. but it was not taken.
If I were to call the Deputy's question now——
I had a question down today about bridging, which is an important factor in house construction, but we were squeezed out by people who have kept asking questions——
If the Deputy wants to put down a vote of no confidence in the Ceann Comhairle he can do that, but the he cannot stand up here and make speeches about it. I am calling Question No. 49.
Two questions in 12 minutes is not good enough.