asked the Taoiseach if, in the light of his statement to the Fianna Fáil Ard Fheis that Northern Ireland as it stands is not a workable political entity, he will indicate his views on whether devolved government is possible or desirable as a political solution in Northern Ireland.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Policy on Northern Ireland.
2.
I would like to direct the Deputy's attention to another passage in my Ard Fheis speech, which reads as follows: "We assert that the long-term and lasting solution which will finally bring tragedy and bitterness to an end must be new political structures which accommodate the diverse traditions of this island, guarantee the rights of all and substitute a community of interest and a community of purpose for confrontation and division."
I would also like to remind the Deputy that the report of the New Ireland Forum to which I subscribed states at section 4.16: "A settlement which recognises the legitimate rights of Nationalists and Unionists must transcend the context of Northern Ireland."
I may have misinterpreted the speech but I understood that another section of it referred to new political structures for the whole island and the diverse interests of various groups on the whole island. My question refers to the existing Northern Ireland State and the Taoiseach's reference to new political structures in that State. In his speech the Taoiseach seemed to indicate that he regarded that State as not a workable political entity. I want to get confirmation of that. In pursuing the goals of the Anglo-Irish Agreement does the Taoiseach regard the achievement of devolved government as one of the primary goals?
The statement I made in my Ard Fheis speech to which the Deputy referred was simply a statement of fact. I gave it as my view that Northern Ireland as it stands at present is not a workable entity. Indeed, I invited Unionists to consider whether they would agree with that statement.
That is precisely why I wonder how the Taoiseach can adhere to the motion which was passed with the agreement of all parties in this House two weeks ago to achieve the goals of the Anglo-Irish Agreement. Its primary goal is to achieve structures for devolved government. If it is not a workable political entity, how could you work out political structures for it?
My statement was that it is not a viable political entity as it stands, which is a simple statement of fact. It does not speculate about any future developments or predicate anything in regard to them.
Does that presuppose a redefinition of the entity itself in order to make it workable?
I think the simplest thing I can do in that context is to repeat what I said in reply to Deputy Mac Giolla, which is to remind the Deputy and the House of paragraph 4.16 in the report of the New Ireland Forum to which I fully subscribe which states that a settlement which recognises the legitimate rights of Nationalists and Unionists must transcend the context of Northern Ireland.
That is a different statement.
I think it is fairly well known that my view in regard to this matter is that new political structures for the whole island are necessary for a final and a lasting solution.
Would the Taoiseach see a devolved administration under the framework of the Anglo-Irish Agreement as a formula transcending the context of Northern Ireland?
No.
Under the framework of the Anglo-Irish Agreement?
No.
Would the Taoiseach not accept that the terms of the agreement bind both the British and Irish Governments to work for devolution in Northern Ireland and presumably the Taoiseach, having accepted the agreement, is working towards that objective?
What I am saying is that I do not accept that any solution brought forward within the confines of the existing structures in Northern Ireland will provide a final and lasting solution.
I did not ask about a final and lasting solution. Would the Taoiseach accept that there is a binding obligation on the Irish Government of which he is head to work for devolution in Northern Ireland? Yes or No?
I have nothing more to say.
Deputy Mac Giolla.
By his silence——
I want to dissuade Members from debating this question now.
I consistently refuse to accept Deputy FitzGerald's bullying yes or no tactics in this House.
In the possibility, which I hope will come about, of discussions with one or both of the Unionist parties in Northern Ireland and in the event of they suggesting structures towards devolved government in Northern Ireland, would the Taoiseach see that as part of his interim solution to bringing about peace in Northern Ireland?
What I have said here in this House, at the Ard Fheis and elsewhere, is that I am prepared to enter into constructive and honest dialogue with representatives of the Unionist community without any preconditions.
Would the Taoiseach accept that under the terms of the Anglo-Irish Agreement the Irish Government have the right to put forward suggestions about devolved government for Northern Ireland?
Yes, I accept that.
Can the Taoiseach tell us whether his Government intend putting forward such suggestions in the interests of bringing about peaceful stability in Northern Ireland without any commitment or without sacrificing any ultimate solution to the problem as he might see it?
I am not satisfied that at present it would be worth while or beneficial for the Irish Government to put forward any such proposals.
Ceist a 3.
Does the Taoiseach accept——
I have called Question No. 3.
On a point of elucidation, could I ask the Taoiseach what he means by "at present——
I have called the next question. I have allowed numerous questions on this particular issue.
The answer is very important.
Ceist a 3.
I do not want to continually fall out with the Chair——
There is nothing personal in the matter, not as far as I am concerned.
And not for me. I have rights and I will insist on them.
This Chair does his duty impartially and without intimidation from any side of the House.