asked the Minister for Education the plans she has for the provision of adequate placement centres for young offenders and especially for girls; and if she will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Young Offenders' Placement.
8.
The residential facilities under my Department which cater for young offenders include the following: Finglas Children's Centre for boys, comprising St. Michael's Remand and Assessment Centre and St. Laurence Special School; St. Joseph's School for boys, Clonmel; Trinity House School for boys, Lusk; and Cuan Mhuire Remand and Assessment Unit for girls, Whitehall, Dublin.
The question of whether these facilities are adequate and, if not, what additional facilities may be necessary will, among other matters, be considered urgently by an inter-departmental working group of senior officials set up recently by the Minister for Justice.
Would the Minister join with me in complimenting the very professional and humanitarian manner in which District Justice John Garavan has dealt with the much publicised plight of a 13-year-old Galway girl who was placed by him in the custody of the Minister? He was faced——
A question, please.
That is a question.
The Deputy was making a statement.
I asked the Minister to join with me in congratulating the district justice on the professional and humanitarian manner in which he dealt with this case. The Minister will be aware that the justice was faced with the stark option of putting a 13 year old child into Mountjoy Prison — with all its implications — or releasing her because there is no secure detention units available for young girls. Will the Minister agree that instead of it being the responsibility of three Departments — Justice, Health and Education — to provide care and security, it would be better to have one agency to service the area, i.e. the Department of Health?
I agree that three Departments dealing in this area causes difficulty and this is the case in many aspects of youth affairs, for that reason the Government decided that an inter-departmental group of senior officials, under the chairmanship of the Minister for Justice, should tackle this problem. It is accepted that there is a need for action but it is not simply a case of providing physically secure accommodation. In the case of a 13 year old we must try to provide the kind of services which do not impinge too much on her freedom. Consequently, it is a complicated issue which has been the subject of much consideration over the last number of years.
I am not satisfied with the Minister's response. He said that there were some facilities for boys but Cuan Mhuire, where this unfortunate girl was placed, is a girls' assessment centre. This institution is not capable of handling the complex needs of a 13 year old. The Minister talked about an inter-departmental group——
Can we please proceed by way of supplementary questions?
Will the Minister agree that this is the time to divulge her immediate plans to the House in this regard so that a good quality, secure and caring institution can be established to deal with these human tragedies?
As I said, that is what the inter-departmental working group are considering as a matter or urgency.
Is there a time scale?
If they decide that additional facilities are necessary they will take decisions in regard to what kind of facilities will be put in place.
Is there an implication that the facilities might not be necessary?
Will the Minister of State agree that the work of the inter-departmental group, which is extremely urgent, has been fatally prejudiced by the Government's decision to slash the building provision for special education, from which such a building would have to be provided, to one third of its previous level?
The budget has nothing to do with this subject.
There are plenty of existing buildings.
There are many facilities and adequate money to provide for whatever is required.
If there are plenty of buildings available why did we reach a situation in which the court decided that the Minister for Education was, in the words of the district justice, "an unfit person" to look after this young girl? If the accommodation is available, as the Minister of State said, why was it not provided before such a dreadful situation occurred?
Mr. Fahey
When Deputy Bruton was in office his Government decided——
Look forward, not backwards.
——that special schools should be set up for such pupils. In hindsight, that was a wrong decision.
Well, rectify it.
That is what the Deputy's Government decided.
The Minister said that accommodation was available; if so, why is it not used?
From the questions being asked, it is obvious that there is a misunderstanding of the problem. There is accommodation available for young girls in Galway but, because there is not security in that accommodation, it is not possible to deal specifically with the case Deputy Byrne mentioned. Do we provide remand accommodation for young girls of 13 years of age? A decision of that nature cannot be taken lightly and I would much prefer to provide accommodation which is capable of dealing with this problem without having a prison element to it.
As with all difficult decisions, this Government will set up another inter-departmental committee.
I am calling Deputy O'Shea and I will then allow a final supplementary from Deputy Byrne.
I have not been away from the classroom for too long and one of the things that alarmed me when I was there was the growing number of emotionally disturbed children. The emphasis of our discussion here——
A question, please, Deputy.
There must be co-operation with the health board to solve this problem and centres should be set up in local areas——
A question, please.
Will the Minister look favourably on providing centres in smaller areas so that all the resources of the community can be used to rehabilitate these children?
I reiterate that in the last two years we have provided a considerable number of extra places for such young offenders. Certainly the finalisation of the report of the inter-departmental committee will mean decisions which will lead to further action.
The Minister said that adequate facilities are available to deal with cases of this kind. If so, why did the district justice have to release this girl into the care of her parents who had sworn in court that they were incapable of handling her? The court then had to rely on the goodwill of an individual nun in Galway to look after the child. Will the Minister agree that we should congratulate the handling of this case by——
This is repetition.
Will the Minister congratulate the district justice?
The Deputy put his finger on the problem. The district justice did not want to put this young girl in jail and that is the kernel of the issue. Such people should not be put in jail——
There is no alternative to jail.
The alternative is to put such a young person in accommodation from which she can freely come and go.
Which Minister is responsible?
We have such accommodation but, unfortunately, in the case of this young girl, it is simply not adequate. The same applies to many other young people.