asked the Minister for Education if she will make a statement on the future development of the Dublin Dental School.
32.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Dublin and Cork Dental Schools.
11.
asked the Minister for Education whether it is intended to proceed with a new dental college in Dublin; the estimated cost of such a proposal; and the implications for Cork Dental College if such a proposal goes ahead.
55.
asked the Minister for Education if she will make a statement on the future of the Cork Dental School.
64.
asked the Minister for Education if it is intended to build a dental school in Dublin; if so, the projected size of such a school; and the location of same.
76.
asked the Minister for Eoducation if she has any plans to extend the Cork Dental School.
131.
asked the Minister for Education if it is her intention to proceed with the Dublin Dental Hospital; whether it is a superfluous need and will have the effect of threatening the future of or undermining the Cork Dental Hospital; and if she will make a statement on the matter.
I propose to reply to Questions Nos. 11, 32, 55, 64, 76 and 131 together. All these questions are from southern Deputies.
Surprise, surprise.
The issues in these questions are currently being considered by the Inter-Departmental Committee on Third Level Education. Among their terms of reference the committee are asked to recommend the manner in which decisions should be taken about the desirable level of provision in particular desciplines or faculties.
A decision on the facilities required for dental education in Dublin has been deferred pending the outcome of the deliberations of the inter-departmental committee. I have no plans for extending the Cork Dental School.
Can the Minister give us some indication as to when the report will be available and when she will make a decision on it? I am not asking for an exact date.
I thought the inter-departmental committee report would be ready by Christmas but I hope it will be available shortly after Christmas. As the Deputy knows, it also deals with health matters and decisions on these matters will be made after I receive the report.
Will the report be published?
Yes.
No decision will be taken until then?
That is correct.
Is the Minister aware that a very detailed and lengthy investigation was carried out some years ago into the Dublin Dental Hospital by the Committee on Public Expenditure and that in their report, published in May 1986, they said that the project, as then proposed, could only be justified if the Cork Dental School was closed? Would the Minister, therefore, give an assurance that if the project goes ahead in Dublin it will be substantially reduced in size and in student throughput?
I am aware of the committee's findings in their report, and I am sure all that information and any other relevant information will be taken on board by the inter-departmental committee. It would be wrong of me to comment on what will or will not be provided in the report pending its publication. I am very aware of the concerns of everyone in this matter and I am particularly aware of Deputies' concerns.
May I ask the Minister why the possibility of extending the Cork Dental School is not under discussion? The Minister seems to have closed that matter. Does the Minister not accept that there are 35 student dentists in Cork and that according to the Statutory Dental Board the national needs are 45 to 50 dentists? Surely in any objective analysis we should be talking about extending the Cork Dental School rather than going ahead with a proposal which, according to the figures available to me, may cost £20 million——
It will cost a lot more than that.
——for 50 places in Dublin and in addition will produce an excess number of dentists over and above the national need. This would have an annual running cost of approximately £2 million for those additional dentists.
The Deputy seems to be imparting a lot of information.
I will round off my question——
Questions, please.
Would it not be far more sensible to extend the existing facility in the Cork Dental School so that the national requirement recommended by the dental board can be produced there?
With respect to all the Munster Deputies, they are selling two messages. The first message is that they do not want the Dublin project to go ahead. If I was one of the Deputies I would be content with this project and not talking about some other facilities. That is by way of a bit of light relief.
If the Dublin facility goes ahead, the Cork school could be closed down.
We are awaiting the report of the inter-departmental committee and no decision will be taken in regard to any extra infrastructural facilities in the dental area until that report is received.
Will the extension of the Cork Dental School be considered?
Order, please. I am calling Deputy Brian O'Shea who has a question tabled.
Are we dealing with the same question?
Deputy O'Shea has a question tabled and if he wishes to offer I will call him.
The Minister has adequately answered my question at this stage.
Would the Minister not agree that this issue in regard to dental education is a relatively simple and straightforward one which should be decided politically rather than by an inter-departmental committee?
Another quango.
If it is the case that of the eight projects which were postponed pending the report of the inter-departmental committee may I ask the Minister if (i) Phase 2 of the Dublin City University has been released in advance of the report——
Tallaght——
——and, if that is so (ii) will the Dublin City University Phase 2 project go ahead in advance of the findings of the report being presented to the Minister?
The only project released pending the inter-departmental report was the Tallaght regional college. That was put forward as one of five flagship projects to Europe in advance of the quest for European Structural Funds. It was approved by Europe in the light of the nature and needs of the area and the type of training which would be carried out in the college. All of the other projects, including Phase 2 of the Dublin City University, fall for consideration under the allocation of funds. All of those projects will be considered by me, my Department and the committee of Ministers.
With regard to the question whether the provision of any further dental places should be a political one, I suppose all things in life are political with a small "p". The provision of any extra dental facilities will be considered when I receive the report of the inter-departmental committee.
The small "p" in this case is the one in "postpone the decision".
Can we deal with Question No. 12?
May I——
A final supplementary, Deputy.
Would the Minister give an assurance at this stage in relation to the Cork Dental School? Secondly, what public moneys have been spent to date on the Dublin project?
That is a separate question.
I do not have the information with me on the amount of money spent to date on the Dublin project. The Cork Dental School is a fine institution and I am not prepared to go beyond saying that.
There is a question mark——
Like Carysfort it is going down the river.
(Interruptions.)
Well may Deputy Carey talk about Carysfort because it was his party who sounded its death knell.
(Interruptions.)
Question No. 12——
I am delighted Deputy Carey raised this matter so that I can refer to it. Does the Deputy remember Gemma Hussey? Of course, he does.
(Interruptions.)
The Minister is showing signs of indigestion because of the words she has swallowed on Carysfort.
Question No. 12.
It seems there is a question mark in relation to the position of the Cork Dental School.
Nobody has a better ability to swallow her words than the Minister.
I have to say something in regard to Carysfort. The files on the——
I see nothing about Carysfort——
——handing over of this responsibility from the Minister for Finance to the Minister for Education make very interesting reading.
A Deputy
Ask the Minister for Finance what he thinks about the proposal in regard to the Dublin Dental School.
(Interruptions.)
The Minister is the madonna of U-turns.
Deputy Carey's interruptions are leading to disorder at Question Time.
A Deputy
He is a big man to have to throw out.
(Interruptions.)