asked the Taoiseach if he proposes to put forward any amendments to the draft Social Charter at the forthcoming EC Summit meeting; if so, the nature of such amendments; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
14.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Discussions with EC Commission President.
13.
asked the Taoiseach if he accepts the three fundamental conclusions in relation to the economic and monetary integration of the EC identified by the NESC in its Report No. 88; if so, whether he will be guided by these conclusions during discussions of the European Monetary Union at the forthcoming EC Summit meeting; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
15.
asked the Taoiseach if, at the forthcoming EC Summit meeting, he will make any proposals to secure progress in relation to harmonisation of indirect taxes at EC level; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
16.
asked the Taoiseach his priorities for the forthcoming summit of EC heads of Government in Strasbourg; if there are specific issues he intends to seek agreement on; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
17.
asked the Taoiseach the purpose of his meeting with the President of the EC Commission, Mr. Delors on 29 November; if any decisions or initiatives were agreed at the meeting; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
18.
asked the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on his meeting with the President of the European Commission; and if the Social Charter was discussed at the meeting.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 13, 14, 15, 16, 17 and 18 together.
My discussions with President Delors concentrated on the European Council meeting, which will be held later this week in Strasbourg and the programme and priorities for our forthcoming Presidency of the European Communities.
In accordance with established practice it would not be appropriate at this stage to disclose in advance what contribution I may or may not make at the Strasbourg Council, particularly since the formal agenda for the Council is not yet available. I will in the normal way report to the House next week on the outcome of the Council.
In relation to the Strasbourg meeting, would the Taoiseach indicate to the House whether he proposes to seek to have the Social Charter — which I understand will be on the agenda of that meeting — strengthened, so that the opposition being mounted by at least one member state will be diluted, thus leading to a Social Charter that guarantees legally binding rights for all citizens of the European Community?
We will certainly support the Social Charter and its adoption. The Deputy is probably aware that, at this stage, what is in mind is a solemn declaration which will be followed up by an action programme, which is when I anticipate the real work will arise.
In relation to the Social Charter, would the Taoiseach agree that the Council of Ministers, the Social Affairs Council has already diluted the Social Charter launched originally by the Commission in October and that apparently the Commission has already finalised its action programme based on that diluted Social Charter? Will the Taoiseach insist, at the Heads of State meeting in Strasbourg on at least the original Social Charter, as launched by the Commission and the social rights contained therein being restored? Would he agree that it is on this basis the Community will make progress and not on the basis of the diluted version now being proposed?
The European Council does not work in that way. I anticipate that what will happen — though, as I have said, we have not yet been furnished with the formal agenda — will be that the final draft will come before the European Council for adoption. It will come before us for adoption in the form of a solemn declaration by the heads of government and state.
Were the contents of the Social Charter discussed at the Taoiseach's meeting with the EC President? If so, did the Taoiseach convey any dissatisfaction in relation to the dilution of the Social Charter which has taken place in recent months?
No, we did not discuss the Social Charter in detail at my discussion because the Social Affairs Council had not met at that stage and the final draft of the Social Charter was not available to us.
Did the Taoiseach——
Would the Ceann Comhairle recognise that half the questions are from this side of the House?
Deputy Bruton, the Chair has called the Deputies whose questions are on the Order Paper and who are present in the House. That is the Chair's duty.
I am grateful for your protection, Sir.
That is a good one.
Can I ask the Taoiseach, if I can be heard over that horse-laughing, if, now that he is aware of the meeting of the Social Affairs Council, he intends to convey dissatisfaction on the diluted version of the Social Charter?
What is at stake is to get a Social Charter adopted.
Irrespective of content?
No, certainly not irrespective of content. In all these matters where the 12 members states are concerned very often the decision has to be to proceed as far as is possible to bring all the member states. That is the position with the Social Charter. We will have, I am sure, a final draft of the Social Charter before the summit meeting. It may be possible to amend or subtract from it. I do not know at this stage what the procedure is likely to be. The likelihood is that we will have a draft which commands unanimity among the member states. There will be a decision as to whether we adopt it.
(Limerick East): Is the Taoiseach aware of reservations expressed by his Minister for Labour in a recent statement when he commented on the Social Charter? Was the statement discussed at Cabinet prior to the publication of the views and does it represent Government policy on the matter?
Any statement made by any Minister in this Government represents Government policy, unlike the last Government.
That means the Government have three or four policies at the same time.
(Limerick East): Would the Taoiseach accept therefore that what he is going to put forward at the meeting of heads of government will be proposals to water down the Social Charter in line with the opinions of his Minister for Labour?
The Deputy is wrong in assuming that I will necessarily be putting forward anything at the summit meeting. There may be no question of that. As the Deputy knows from his own experience of Government, the normal procedure would be that we will have a draft before us. It will almost certainly represent the limits to which all the Twelve are prepared to go and it will very likely be a question of accepting it or not. I cannot say that will be the position but it seems very likely that is the way things will emerge.
Is it the case that with the threats of veto by the Government in regard to tax harmonisation and the foot dragging, prevarication and attempted amendment in regard to the Social Charter, the Irish Government under the Taoiseach's leadership, far from being seen as being in the vanguard of European integration, are in fact closer to the British Prime Minister in their stance on this subject than almost any other Community Government?
Rubbish.
Would the Taoiseach agree that his record on this matter actually shows that while the oratory that he uses may have an integrationist cast to it, the practical steps that he takes could be distinguished only with great difficulty from those taken by the British Prime Minister?
The Deputy has already made that point.
Would the Taoiseach confirm that in the first round of discusions on the Social Charter the Minister for Labour, acting for the Government, supported — alone among European countries except for Margaret Thatcher — the dilution of the Social Charter in particular areas of minimum income and rights to join various trade unions?
That would not be the position at all. The Social Charter has been before a number of Social Councils for a long time and has been the subject of the most protracted discussion, negotiation and compromise between all the member states. I do not think there is a single member state that did not have difficulty of one kind or another with the original draft of the Social Charter. As in all Community matters, we have to try to achieve progress on the basis of consensus. We must try to get all the 12 member states to advance as far as we can on any issue. That is what is happening on this occasion. It is quite wrong to suggest that this Government or the Minister for Labour at the Social Affairs Council have been in any way remiss in trying to secure the maximum progress.
Does the Taoiseach know what is going on?
The Taoiseach is on record as stating a number of times that the social cohesion of the European Community is a fundamental of any progress towards a single market. We have targets in relation to the single market, the opening of borders, monetary union and so forth. Would the Taoiseach not agree that it is essential that a strong Social Charter be put in place and that, unless the Council meeting which he is to attend this week establishes such a charter by way of a political declaration or otherwise, any action programme which the Commission will implement will not be worth the paper it is written on? If it is not in the charter it cannot be implemented.
The Deputy has adverted to a number of disparate matters. The position in regard to the Social Charter is that it has been the subject of protracted discussion, negotiation and compromise over a long period and now it is hoped that a final draft will come before the Strasbourg Summit and be adopted in the form of a solemn political declaration and that this will be followed by an action programme which has already been drawn up by the Commission. I suggest that it is the action programme which will be the reality, the practical working programme with which we will have to deal. There is widespread agreement throughout the Community that the Community must not be just for big corporations, business or the private sector but should also be a Community for the peoples of Europe. It is on that basis that this Social Charter has been formulated and brought forward. There may be some criticism of the final draft of the Social Charter but I think the Deputy would agree that there will be an enormous amount of excellent provisions in that Social Charter, whole areas about which there is no conflict at all concerning the safety and health of workers and so on. I hope that the summit in Strasbourg will be able to agree on the final draft as it comes before us.
What is the difference between a solemn political declaration and a political declaration?
Pass.
Does the difference mean that any declaration made by the Taoiseach is, by necessity, solemn and any declaration made by anyone else is just an ordinary declaration?
Yes, and the converse applies to the Deputy.
The solemnity with which the Taoiseach considers all matters is something to behold.