Peter Barry
Ceist:3 Mr. Barry asked the Taoiseach if he will consider holding a special meeting of Heads of State and Governments after 18 March 1990 to consider the situation that will then exist in East Germany.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Changes in East and West Germany.
Ruairí Quinn
Ceist:5 Mr. Quinn asked the Taoiseach if, in view of the rapid changes occurring in East and West Germany, he has any plans to invite Chancellor Kohl and Prime Minister Modrow to Ireland to discuss, on behalf of the EC, the implications of German unity for the rest of the Community; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Tá sé i gceist agam Ceisteanna 3 agus 5 a ghlacadh le chéile.
As I said in my statement last Friday I have, following agreement in principle to my proposal, now invited my colleagues, the heads of State or Government of the other member states of the European Community, to an informal summit meeting in Dublin in April.
The main purpose of the meeting will be to enable EC leaders to take a collective view of the evolving situation in central and Eastern Europe and its implications for the European Community, with particular reference to the progress towards German unification. In preparation for this, I have accepted an invitation from Chancellor Kohl for discussions with him in Bonn on 28 March.
My question was obviously tabled before the Taoiseach made an announcement last Friday. Nevertheless I thank him for his reply. This is an extremely important meeting for this country — indeed for the whole European Community — and the Taoiseach should put aside any sense of resentment he might feel about people upstaging him in the Community. He should consider the European Community as a whole.
There is no question of that. In so far as there was any little frisson, it was a question of the respective competence of the Presidency and the Commission.
Was it a frisson?
In view of the fact that the Taoiseach intends to visit Chancellor Kohl and in view of the critical importance that East Germany will have in relation to the rest of Europe, will he indicate whether he has any plans to consult Prime Minister Modrow on a bilateral basis in advance of the April Summit?
I do not have any such plans at present.
I do not want to intrude on what clearly must be handled diplomatically. However, will the Taoiseach agree that, in his capacity as President of the European Community and because of the need to maintain objectivity and balance, some form of consultation on a bilateral basis between the Presidency and the East German authorities could only improve the outcome of the summit in April?
I will keep that in mind but the Deputy will be aware of the fact that there will be an election in Germany on 18 March and it would be as well to wait until after that to take any further decisions.
After the meeting in April will it be possible to have a debate in this House on the question of German reunification and the effect on the European Community?
I had not thought about that but it is very likely, following the usual precedent, that I will be reporting to the House after the summit.
I made the point before that that procedure does not allow most of us to participate as only three or four Members are allowed to make statements.
I will keep that argument in mind.
Has the Taoiseach given any consideration to the contrast between what the European Community is undertaking in relation to Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary and — one hopes — Romania on the one hand and East Germany on the other? Does the Taoiseach think that there is any danger for the European Community in the situation which has now come about where the Federal Republic of Germany is now assisting East Germany whereas the European Community is assisting the other countries? Does the Taoiseach think there is any danger in that for the future cohesion of the Community? How will the action of the Community in Eastern Europe be regarded by the other countries?
I would not use the word "danger" but the Deputy must be aware, like everybody else, that the whole question of German unification has major implications of all kinds for the Community and that it has to be very carefully handled, as I am sure it will be.
Will the Taoiseach agree it is important that the European Community should also be involved in assisting in democratisation in Eastern Germany and not leave the matter solely to the Federal Republic of Germany?
That question is still the subject of discussion.
Ceist 4 a tharaing ar siar.
In respect of Question No. 6, owing to a printing error I have to advise the House of the following. The question by Deputy Peter Barry addressed to the Taoiseach should have appeared as Question No. 6 on today's Order Paper: "To ask the Taoiseach when it is proposed to set up a Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs." Question No. 6 on the Order Paper, in the name of Deputy Deasy, should not have appeared on the Order Paper as it was transferred by the Taoiseach to the Minister for Finance. Deputy Deasy was informed of the transfer. This is essentially a printer's error.
I was informed of the change but I do not accept it. I put a question down to the Taoiseach. It is quite a straightforward question and it is reasonable that it should be answered.
I explained the matter to the House, I have nothing further to add. Question No. 7, please.
I must object, surely the Taoiseach——
Deputy Deasy must accept the statement I made to the House.
This is unprecedented. This question was on the Order Paper——
Deputy Deasy must desist.
Surely the Taoiseach will volunteer——
It is clearly a mistake and the Deputy knows that.
It is not a mistake, it is an evasion.
(Interruptions.)
The Minister for Finance made a statement in Cork at the weekend saying that there would be lots of EC funding——
I have explained the position to the Deputy and he must accept it.
Has an application gone in? This matter is not in accordance with the rules of the House and I am asking that it be referred to the Committee on Procedure and Privileges.
That is a matter for the Deputy and his party to decide.
I was going to ask a similar question but it has been dealt with by Deputy Deasy.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 6 and 7 together.
The question of establishing further committees remains under consideration.
The political map of Europe has been transformed and there is a prospect of major changes in South Africa for which we have waited so long. Does the Taoiseach not think it is ridiculous that this House is not in a position to debate these issues at a committee and to give guidance to the House and opinions to the Government on these matters? Will the Taoiseach agree that it is nonsensical for him to say exactly the same thing today that he said in April 1987 and at regular intervals since? How long does it take the Taoiseach to make up his mind?
The Deputy's question is based on a fairly serious misconception in asking me to establish a committee of this House to assist me in my duties as President of the European Council, as it would be a very serious breach of precedent and protocol in Community affairs.
The Taoiseach does not even have the gumption to check his statement because he knows he is acting the barrack room lawyer in saying that. Will the Taoiseach accept that this House is alone among the parliaments of the European Community in not having a foreign affairs committee and in not having a framework within which issues of foreign policy can be debated in this House? Does the Taoiseach not think it ridiculous that the Government should give in to the hegemony of officials in this affair and leave all of this completely outside the scope of this House? Can the Taoiseach not take his courage in his hands for once and make a simple decision to come forward with the terms of reference for a committee on foreign affairs? Let us have done with that nonsense and get down to discussing the real issues.
I agree with the comments made by Deputy Dukes that the answer given by the Taoiseach was given on at least 15 occasions since May 1987. Is it a fact that the Taoiseach will not appoint a foreign affairs committee of the House and that he does not want opinions from other Members in relation to foreign policy? If that is the position, why is it that the Taoiseach does not have the courage to stand up and say so?
The Deputy knows full well that there are many other ways in which I can have the views of the Members on all aspects of foreign policy other than within the narrow restrictive confines of a committee. I have already indicated to Deputy Barry that I will keep in mind his suggestion of a debate on eastern Europe and German unity.
The Taoiseach has refused a debate each week since we came back after the recess.
I am not being churlish when I say that what the Taoiseach has said sounds generous but it is not. Statements by Members are not the same as a full debate in the House and the procedure of a debate in the House is not the same as having a committee on foreign affairs. The latter would discuss in detail specific topics like those referred to by Deputies Dukes and Spring. A whole range of areas needs to be teased out so that the Minister of the day can have the view of a representative body of the House about matters of foreign policy.
Exactly.
Has the Taoiseach, or his party, any objection to such a committee? If they have, there does not seem to be much point in going ahead with all this ridiculous nonsense of putting down questions every six months.
I have nothing further to add.
Peter Barry
Ceist:Mr. Barry I have asked the Taoiseach if he, or his party, has any objection to such a committee.
I take it from what the Taoiseach said that this matter is being considered. Will the Taoiseach indicate at what level it is being considered? Is the matter being considered by the Cabinet? When was the last time it was considered by them? Is the matter being considered by the Department of Foreign Affairs? Will the Taoiseach indicate when we might have a definitive decision on the consideration that has been given to this matter?
My reply said that the question of establishing further committees remains under consideration.
The Taoiseach was asked about one committee.
My question specifically related to a proposal to establish a committee on foreign affairs and I should like to ask the Taoiseach to answer that question. Will the Taoiseach say when and how we will get a decision on that query?
I told the Deputy that the matter is under consideration.
It has been under consideration since April 1987. How long does it take the Taoiseach to make up his mind?
Peter Barry
Ceist:Mr. Barry I asked the Taoiseach whether he, or his party, has any objection to such a committee.
We are having repetition.
The Taoiseach has not answered the question.
If the Taoiseach does not answer the question we are bound to have repetition.
Indeed, and it is not in order.
There are advantages and disadvantages in the establishment of any committee, as the Deputy well knows.
Is the Taoiseach afraid of having a debate on foreign policy in the House?
Especially during his Presidency.
Is it not the position that the Taoiseach does not want to talk about foreign policy because he does not have anything to say about it?
No.