We now come to deal with the second item for consideration on the Adjournment. Deputy Jim Mitchell, Deputy Brendan Kenneally and other Deputies gave me notice of intention to raise on the Adjournment the subject matter of the industrial dispute at Waterford Glass. Deputy Mitchell has ten minutes allocation of time and the Minister for Labour five minutes to reply.
Adjournment Debate. - Waterford Glass Industrial Dispute.
It is my desire to share my time with Deputy Deasy and Deputy O'Shea. I understand the Minister may wish to share his time also.
Is that satisfactory?
Agreed.
At the outset of this debate it is proper, given the gravity of the situation in Waterford, even at this late hour tonight, that the Dáil have an opportunity to express its united concern at the situation. I know that in the city and county of Waterford tonight there is great stress and great heat, so I am conscious that nothing said here tonight should add to that heat or further inflame the position.
Nonetheless, we cannot but express our very strong concern at the gravity of the situation. If we reflect on the figures given in this House earlier this afternoon in reply to questions by me and other Deputies, we will remember that the Minister told the House that concerned here were not only the 2,300 jobs at Waterford Glass which would be bad enough, but 4,600 other indirect jobs were also affected, to give a total of almost 7,000 jobs to be lost if we lose this plant. That is not only capable of making the city and county of Waterford a desert, it would have severe repercussions for the entire country. Another major consideration is that Waterford Crystal is one of the great quality brands known throughout the world and represents and signifies Irish quality, craft and design. Many potential investors may get the impression, wrongly, that we have a difficult and truculent trade union movement or industrial relations situation. It would give an opportunity to our competitors for that investment to convey a wrong impression internationally.
The position is extremely grave and I know there is a conviction on the part of some that there is not really any danger to this plant. Those of us who have been keeping closely in touch with the situation and deliberately keeping quiet to allow the possibility of talks realise that we are in an extremely grave position, that there is a need for urgent talks. I would suggest that they listen to the Minister's request to start talks. I would go further and ask management to stretch a point and go into talks. I would ask them to pay the equivalent of the bonanza payments into some trust fund controlled by an independent authority, perhaps the Bishop of Waterford and Lismore. I would ask the unions to stretch a point and to start the talks. No principle is conceded by agreeing to talks. I would go further than the Minister. Having started the talks, I would suggest to the unions to consider resuming work as soon as possible while those talks are going on. It weakens their case not at all and it strengthens the hope of saving and developing the industry which means a lot to them and a lot to us.
Politicians from my constituency of Waterford who are here to comment are to be complimented. Other politicians and civic leaders who have commented from time to time also deserve credit for having the courage to speak their minds. It is not an easy time for any of us. It can be very ugly and very frustrating. I do not want to make this a political issue but I have seen a number of people who walked away rather than get involved or try to help. It is despicable. I compliment those who are here tonight and those who have commented outside. Politicians, civic leaders, captains of industry, people in public life or outstanding in society have a duty to comment when such a terrible scenario is facing us. We are on the brink of the biggest employment disaster this country has ever witnessed. We could be only days away from it, certainly weeks. I know there is a certain amount of delicacy attached to commenting on this episode but nevertheless we must comment if the problem is to be solved.
There is need for urgent action to get talks underway between unions and management at Waterford Crystal. It has struck me forcibly in recent weeks that many of the workers do not believe the factories in Waterford and Dungarvan can close. They are basing their belief on the value of the fixed assets and the experience and skills of the workforce. Those skills and experience are considerable. There is a tremendous workforce in that industry. Having said that, I do not share that point of view. The industry, because of huge losses and high overheads, must be in serious jeopardy. We must all address ourselves to that fact.
If the industry is to be saved we need a revised list of proposals from the Minister which hopefully will be accepted by both sides as a basis for negotiation and eventual agreement. I appreciate, as do most people, the efforts the Minister has made. He has applied himself to the problem and has done his best so far. It is an extraordinarily difficult problem and it is vital that every single worker realises the gravity of the position. I do not believe the management are bluffing when they say there is serious danger of the factories closing. If the company's board decide to close it will be a decision which will be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to reverse. More than likely the decision will not be made here but in boardrooms elsewhere.
I appeal to the management and to every worker to concentrate their minds on talks that will lead to an agreement and a lasting solution. It is estimated that only half the workers turned up for last Sunday's crucial meeting. That is unfortunate. What a disaster it would be if the factories did close, particularly because of apathy.
I thank Deputy Mitchell for giving me some of his time to contribute to this debate. I believe that the desire for talks in Waterford is strengthening. I have become more and more certain of this. I lend my support to Deputy Deasy's remarks regarding the efforts of the Minister for Labour to seek talks about talks. He has applied himself unselfishly to the task and I believe his proposals last Sunday, though they were not accepted, do not require very much change in order to become acceptable. I am not aware of the contents of his new proposals, but I very much hope that he is successful and that the proposals are acceptable to both sides so that talks can begin on Monday, as I understand the Minister wants.
There are stories circulating regarding possible actions to be taken by the company tomorrow. Perhaps the Minister would assure the House that this is not the case. I said on the first morning of the strike that my first and foremost concern was for the workers, their jobs, pay and conditions. They have lived under a shadow in Waterford and Dungarvan for the past three years. There has been a stop-go policy and there was the June agreement. I will not go over events of the past. Disputes are settled at the negotiation table. I said it on the first morning of the strike and I reiterate it now. Both sides need to come to the table urgently. The climate is right and the desire is there. The Minister for Labour has made many efforts and has kept on top of the situation. I reiterate what Deputy Deasy said. This dispute calls for urgent talks and I hope the Minister's new formula will be successful.
I propose to give a minute to Deputy Kenneally and a minute to Deputy Rabbitte:
Is that satisfactory? Agreed.
I have not made any public statement on this matter for quite some time. I did so in the early stages of the dispute, but I have felt since then that my intervention would not be appreciated by either side and might do more harm than good. Perhaps a contribution at this stage could be more helpful. I will be speaking on the lines followed by my constituency colleagues and by Deputy Mitchell. I thank them for their support. As they rightly said, we have to be careful that we do not inflame the situation any further by what we say here.
I too should like to pay tribute to the Minister for Labour, Deputy Ahern, for the tremendous job he is doing in this area. I should like to assure the Minister that his efforts are appreciated by the workers in Waterford Glass who know he is working hard to try to find a solution to this dispute.
I too could refer to what has given rise to his dispute, but I do not want to give a history lesson to anybody here. The past is over and we must now look to the future. The future looks very bleak for Waterford, its hinterland and Dungarvan. Not only are the 3,200 jobs in Waterford Crystal at stake but other jobs are at stake also. The loss of 7,000 jobs would be catastrophic in a place the size of Dublin, which has one third of the population, but the loss of 7,000 jobs in Waterford could wipe the town off the map.
Only lately the workforce have begun to realise that there is an alternative; I have believed this for quite some time. If Czechoslovak expertise was brought into Waterford in the fifties to start the glass industry, and there is still a glass industry in that country, then the expertise must still be there. With the breaking down of the barriers in Eastern Europe, Czechoslovakia is both a commercial and viable area for the production of glass. However, I am confident that the Minister's further proposals will be accepted by both sides.
I appeal to all concerned to fully consider these proposals, to give them a chance and to get around the table and start talking. The Minister is not talking about solving the dispute at present; he is trying to get the two sides together. Nothing will be solved if they do not come together. I appeal to everybody concerned in this dispute to come together to discuss the nitty gritty. It will be absolutley catastrophic for Waterford if this company closes down. Indeed, the consequences of its closure will be felt nationally as it is one of the most important indigenous industries in Ireland. This company must not be let die.
I thank the Minister for giving me this opportunity to add the voice of The Workers' Party to the appeal to both sides in this dispute to come to the negotiation table without delay. During my 15 years as a trade union official I have experienced some difficult trade disputes but no industrial dispute in the history of this State could have such major and far reaching implications as the one at Waterford Crystal. I know the workers have very strong feelings about some recent decisions which have been taken by management — indeed management stand condemned out of their own mouths — but the absolute priority at this time is to start negotiating towards a resolution of this dispute. I hope, as Deputy O'Shea said, that management will not take any new decisions which are likely to make that process more difficult. Talks can solve this dispute no matter how intractable they are whereas if there are no talks then most certainly there will not be a solution. No party in this House wants to see the disaster which could happen at Waterford and I am quite sure that the workforce most of all do not want to see that situation come about.
I thank all the Deputies for their supportive remarks. The new proposals contain amendments to Sunday's proposals and take into account the views which were expressed by Members of this House and by people from Waterford who have gone to a lot of trouble to speak to me and my officials during the past few days. I cannot make these new proposals public because I have given a commitment to the unions and the management not to do so.
Deputy O'Shea asked about the action taken by the company. One of the reasons I put forward new proposals and worked long and hard during the past few days is that an international meeting is being held tomorrow and many things were said on the ground by the people in Waterford Crystal which could be regarded as true. However, I am assured that nothing will happen at tomorrow's board meeting. I am glad to be able to give that assurance to everybody interested in the dispute.
I also want to thank the Bishop of Waterford, the business people of Waterford, the Mayor of Waterford, the various groups involved and, in particular, the Deputies and Labour spokesmen for the various parties who have been very supportive over the past few days.
I think what Deputy Mitchell, Deputy Rabbitte and Deputy Deasy — who put it straighter than anyone else — were saying is that there is a view that the company will not close down and that in some way this is all a bluff. I am not one to cry wolf — and I do not think the Deputies who have spoken here tonight would either — but I am aware more than most of all the agendas, and perhaps some hidden agendas.
As I said in reply to a question from Deputy Mitchell at Question Time today it is only right that we have an obligation to be very straight and frank about this issue. If either side involved plays with the dispute they will be playing with fire. There are international managers involved who perhaps do not understand our industrial relations and do not want to; even if they did try perhaps they would not understand them. That is a reality of life. I appreciate the efforts made by Mr. Charles Douglas and Mr. John Freeman and their officials. In case there is any misunderstanding about the management position, Mr. Paddy Byrne, the managing director of Wedgewood-Waterford Glass, flew to Dublin and explained to me how serious the dispute is. I conveyed the confidential data he gave me to the unions so that they would know the precise position.
I thank you, a Cheann Comhairle, for giving us the opportunity to discuss this matter and for the extra time you have given us. However, we are quickly running out of time. All Members are asking both sides to go back to the negotiating table. I have no doubt that both sides could say that the new proposals do not contain all they would like, but they will have ample time during the negotiations to make those points.
With regard to a question I was asked today by the people of Waterford, it will be the conciliation service of the Labour Court who will be involved and it will be the chairman of the court, in conjunction with me, who will pick the most senior members. However, I will be glad to accept his judgment of the best people to be involved and I believe he will pick the best people because of the difficulties involved. All the other institutions of the State on the labour side will be glad to help out in whatever way they can.
Like the other Members who have spoken, I appeal to both sides to get back to the negotiating table quickly and to argue whatever points are in dispute. If any more time is lost in this dispute it will end up like other disputes where people write books about them afterwards. This is probably the last chance I will have to publicly appeal to both sides to accept these proposals as quickly as possible and to get down to negotiation, which is another hard day's work. I should like to thank everybody who contributed to this debate.
I should like to thank you, a Cheann Comhairle, for the extra time you have given us.
It is my duty and pleasure.
The Dáil adjourned at 11.30 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Thursday, 24 May 1990.