John Bruton
Ceist:9 Mr. J. Bruton asked the Taoiseach if he has any proposals to broaden the scope of participation in the discussions on the proposed Second Programme for National Recovery.
Ceisteanna — Questions. Oral Answers. - Second Programme for National Recovery.
Jim Higgins
Ceist:10 Mr. J. Higgins asked the Taoiseach if he is prepared to invite representatives of emigrant groups to participate in discussions leading to the formulation of the next Programme for National Recovery; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 9 and 10 together. As I indicated to the House on 13 November 1990, arrangements have been made to involve the National Youth Council of Ireland and the United Farmers' Association in the discussions on a new programme. In the case of the National Youth Council, a submission by them has already been discussed with Government Departments and they have expressed their satisfaction with the arrangements made. A submission is awaited from the United Farmers' Association and this will be discussed with them when received.
It is open to other organisations, including representatives of emigrant groups, to make submissions on the scope and content of the programme. Any such submissions will be fully considered by the relevant Government Departments and discussed with the organisations who have made the submissions.
May I ask the Taoiseach, first, in relation to the arrangements he has announced with regard to the National Youth Council of Ireland and the United Farmers' Association, if this involves a formal system of consultation with discussions or simply an invitation of submissions? Furthermore, will he specifically invite representatives of parents associations who are interested in the educational dimension, voluntary organisations dealing with those in poverty and groups representing emigrants, to make specific submissions so that the widest possible consensus could be achieved among the widest number of groups in support of the programme, if agreed?
I can do no more than make it clear here that submissions by representative organisations will be welcomed and treated appropriately, that is, they will be considered and, if necessary, discussed with the organisations in question.
Would the Taoiseach indicate if any actual consultative procedure, apart from a simple invitation of submissions which might or might not be taken seriously, will be available to involve those who have made submissions in the subsequent discussions?
The Deputy did not hear what I said. Any such submissions will be fully considered by the relevant Government Departments and discussed with the organisations who made them.
Would the Taoiseach not agree——
I want to bring in Deputy Jim Higgins who also has a question tabled on this subject.
Would the Taoiseach not agree that the programme will be discussed with the existing social partners and in that it would be useful if those who have made submissions could be invited to further discussions after the initial round of discussions with the social partners?
We have to have some limits; we have to have some structures, otherwise we would never get a programme.
Would the Taoiseach not agree allowing for the fact that you must have some predetermined structures that in view of the fact that in the past ten years 300,000 people — mainly young people — emigrated from this country, the fact that the unions, the employers and the farmers cannot be deemed to have the welfare of those young people at heart, and in view of the fact that he has recently taken on board direct participation by the National Youth Council etc., emigrant groups have a right to direct participation or, to some type of associate membership where they could have a direct input?
I do not think either of those two proposals makes sense — participation or associate membership. The sensible, practical thing to do is to invite here and now — as I am doing — and accept submissions from any representative group who have a point of view to put forward or have suggestions to make. I assure the Deputy that those submissions will be fully considered in all the appropriate channels and in all the appropriate agencies, and if it is thought necessary, or indeed if the organisation wish, discussions on the submissions can be conducted.
Would the Taoiseach not acknowledge that remarks made at the weekend by the Biship of Killaloe, Dr. Harty, in the United Kingdom where he said that the issue of emigration has been sanitised with a pretence that most departures are voluntary and that those who left the country were well educated and upwardly mobile when the opposite is in fact the case, shows a marked lack of sensitivity on his part and on the part of the Government to the problems of emigration?
It is very easy to be a hurler on the ditch.
Whereas the Taoiseach seems to be opening many avenues for various groups and bodies to make contributions and submissions, may I reiterate the concern expressed by Deputy Higgins and ask the Taoiseach if he would take special steps in relation to the emigrant groups? I have had the opportunity, in recent months, of talking to many groups in London. It would be deplorable if we were to forget their plight. They are living in appalling conditions, many of them do not have housing. I would ask the Taoiseach if, through the Embassy in London or through his own offices a special avenue could be made to the representative groups of the emigrants to have an input into these discussions. I believe that would be worthwhile.
I will see what can be done.
When does the Taoiseach expect the talks to be concluded?
I could not give the Deputy a date. The objective would be to have them finished before the end of this year when the existing programme runs out. We are well on the way; the negotiations are well advanced; most of the issues on the table are being discussed. I would be hopeful that we can keep to our deadline of the end of the year.
Question No. 11 please.