John Bruton
Ceist:11 Mr. J. Bruton asked the Taoiseach if he has any proposals for constitutional amendments.
Ceisteanna — Questions. Oral Answers. - Constitutional Amendments.
John Bruton
Ceist:12 Mr. J. Bruton asked the Taoiseach if he has considered the establishment of an all-party committee to consider necessary changes to the Constitution.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 11 and 12 together. There are no proposals at present to amend or to establish an all-party committee on the Constitution.
May I ask the Taoiseach if he would agree that there is a very real human and social problem in regard to marital breakdown? Would he further agree that, as the head of a Government, he has a responsibility to address very real human and social problems of this kind? Would he agree further that the Government have a responsibility to give a lead of some kind to finding a solution to the problem of marital breakdown and remarriage? Would he further agree that the proposal made by me to him yesterday that the Government publish a White Paper on this subject, after consultation with the Opposition parties, which I am prepared to offer on behalf of my party, would be a constructive way in which the Government could be seen to take an initative on this issue and exercise their responsibility in regard to problems that exist in a responsible way?
I do not wish to be negative about this matter. I recognise that there are important social and other anxieties in the community arising from the present situation. However, my view, as I stated recently, is that as yet I cannot discern any major movement in public opinion but I agree that we should be alert to see if there is emerging consensus on this or any other social problem. I will certainly consider the Deputy's suggestion about a White Paper. I am not sure that it is really necessary. I am sure that all aspects of the matter have been fully gone into and elaborated and articulated on on the last occasion, but as it is a proposal from the Leader of the main Opposition party I will certainly consider it.
May I ask the Taoiseach, first, if he would agree that as a political leader it is his responsibility not just simply to wait for public opinion to move but to attempt, within the limits of his persuasive powers, to lead public opinion? Would he further agree that he has a responsibility not just to wait for a consensus to emerge but to try to create a consensus? Would he further agree that some of the difficulties that existed in the past, misunderstandings that may have existed in people's minds about the consequences of the passage of the proposal which was before the people, have now been removed by the passage of legislation on both the status of children and judicial separation? Does he also agree that there is now a much narrower area in which misunderstanding is likely to arise as to the consequences of what one might do and that that is something that could be stated very clearly in a White Paper in a way that would allay any public fears which may exist?
I think the Deputy is attributing far greater powers to me than I possess, to say that I could achieve a consensus. In fact, I can immediately see the criticism——
The Taoiseach is standing in the way of consensus.
——if I were to attempt to force a consensus. I think it is better on that issue and on other similar issues to let public opinion evolve.
I am inclined to agree with the Taoiseach in that I believe the report by the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Marriage Breakdown and other research have obviated the necessity of any further papers or deliberation on this subject? Given that there appears to be acceptance in the Labour Party, The Workers' Party, Fine Gael and the Progressive Democrats in relation to the necessity for a change in the Constitution, would the Taoiseach not try to have the matter discussed and to bring about a consensus or a view in the Fianna Fáil Party which, if that concurs with the rest, will bring about changes? Until that happens it cannot be done.
I do not think political parties should be arrogant in this matter. To a great extent, parties can only reflect public opinion and I think it is more important that we should try to assess and respond to public opinion. I have given my view that if you attempt something of this nature without a reasonable degree of public consensus or a reasonable prospect of success, it would be unnecessarily divisive, and I do not think anybody wants that.
I put it to the Taoiseach on this issue that Deputies on all sides of the House acknowledge that marriage breakdown in the Republic of Ireland is a fact of life, that remarriage is also a fact of life and that this, under our present code, is leading to all sorts of difficulties for men, women and children and that we have an obligation to lead public opinion in the direction where this could be resolved. Indeed, the proposal from Deputy Bruton for a White Paper could help to eliminate areas of fear, outline the progress that has been made in legislation since the last referendum and perhaps pinpoint areas of legislation that still need to be dealt with in order to have a successful referendum on the divorce issue. Because I do not want to get on my feet again about this matter, will the Taoiseach indicate also if he has any plans to address the issue of Articles 2 and 3 in the foreseeable future in view of recent Supreme Court decisions?
I have given the answer to the general question in regard to the Constitution. I have already said in response to the first part of Deputy De Rossa's supplementary that I will consider the suggestion, as I think I am duty bound to do, of some sort of paper or assessment of the situation.
Deputy John Bruton.
Sorry, a Cheann Comhairle, but I feel we are debating an issue rather than dealing with questions.
A Deputy
It is getting warmer.
(Interruptions.)
I am prepared to stay here all day answering questions.
The Taoiseach is far removed from public opinion.
I have no idea what the Deputy is saying; he is unintelligible to me.
A Cheann Comhairle, may I explain my remark to the Taoiseach?
I have called your leader, Deputy John Bruton.
I was telling the Taoiseach that he was so far removed from public opinion when it came to the health cuts that he had difficulty in that area.
Please, Deputy Carey.
May I ask the Taoiseach if, in his consideration of this matter, which he has promised, he will keep in mind that the majority of Members in this House are represented by parties who would be prepared to accept a change in the Constitution in regard to this matter?
A Deputy
You were there before and nothing happened.
Would that very practical political consideration be——
I can only remind the Deputy that his own party went through a very major trauma the last time this was brought forward, inopportunely and untimely.
May I remind the Taoiseach that my party are prepared, and have always been prepared, to face up to their responsibilities in regard to matters of this kind even when it may cause us difficulty, unlike the Taoiseach's party who seem, under his mesmeric gaze, to be afraid to face any difficult issue?
Please, Deputy Bruton, this matter may not be debated now. Deputy Spring for a final and brief question.
May I say that the Deputy has now turned what was a fairly satisfactory process of questions and answers into a tendentious matter? I should like to remind him that when his party failed totally to deal with the issue of contraceptives in this House to the extent that the Taoiseach of the day voted against their own legislation, it was Fianna Fáil who subsequently came along and put through the necessary legislation?
(Interruptions.)
I am calling Deputy Spring.
The Taoiseach's essay of recent history may prove to be relatively unproductive from his point of view.
Deputy Spring has been called.
I would rather look——
A brief question, Deputy Spring.
I will be very brief. I would rather look to the future and be positive so as to bring about some solutions. I regret if the Taoiseach thought I was being arrogant; I wanted to ask my supplementary and be constructive in relation to a very difficult issue for all political parties. Perhaps we are fortunate in these parties that we have sorted out a very difficult question which the Taoiseach has not as yet sorted out. Surely he must accept that it is now the Fianna Fáil Party who must resolve this difficulty?
We are having repetition.
I do not accept that.
Ceist a 13.
In that case the Taoiseach is even more politically unrealistic than I thought.
He is the only one standing in the way of political consensus.