Vol. 403 No. 4
22 Mr. Howlin asked the Minister for Education her views on whether socioeconomic and geographical factors are creating a trend whereby fewer students are taking up university places from areas other than university towns; if she is concerned at this trend; and if she will make a statement on the matter.
The most recent survey by Patrick Clancy, Who Goes to College, and which was sponsored by the Higher Education Authority, indicates that the numbers entering university in both absolute terms and as a percentage of the relevant age cohort has increased in virtually all counties between 1980 and 1986. While more up-to-date information is not available — but will be available shortly in the form of an interim report — there is every reason to believe that this trend has increased since 1986.
In this context, if one looks at the relative ranking of counties by reference to rates of admission to higher education generally, i.e. including the non-university sector, there is no obvious bias in participation rates towards university or third level institution towns.
The Deputy will also be aware that the higher education grants scheme addresses the problem of distance from college through the provision of higher rates of maintenance to those living away from home.
May I ask the Minister if she is aware that my own home county of Wexford has the third worst level of participation in third level education? It is commonly perceived in Wexford that the reason for this is the absence of any third level provision within the county. Has she devised any mechanism to counterbalance that? I am thinking particularly of distance learning or satellite courses so that in counties of large population, such as Wexford, where there is not the capacity for a third level institution there could be a faculty or a satellite institute there, particularly now because of the development of advance communications?
Yes, this proposal has been put forward not only in relation to Wexford. I accept that Deputy Howlin is speaking in general terms while also talking about his own constituency. Various proposals have been made to us regarding what one might call out-reach colleges, distance education and various other proposals. Sometimes it is possible to take them on board, sometimes not. At present we have a submission from Castlebar dealing with the need for something of that nature and also from other counties. Already in Cavan there is a further education service operated from the Athlone Regional Technical College. Edenderry has a similar type education service from another college. Those submissions are looked at as they come in. I am aware that Deputy John Browne referred to this issue in a recent debate on vocational education committees. If the Deputies wish to consider this further perhaps they would put forward a submission on behalf of their vocational education committee, that is, if they have not already done so.
I am sure my colleagues will appreciate the plug from the Minister. Notwithstanding that, is it satisfactory for her to evaluate the submissions that arrive on her desk? Would she not consider at this stage formulating a national proposal to encompass not only County Wexford but all the counties which are disadvantaged by not having a third level facility within their county boundary? Does the Minister agree that she has a responsibility not only to respond to submissions from various corners of the country but to actually evaluate the Clancy report and to put in place some sort of distance learning mechanism to enable all the young adults to participate in third level education on an equal footing?
First, there cannot be a third level institution in every county — the country is far too small for that. Second, part of the excitement and the growing up process for young people being involved in third level education is that they are in a different county, they are, dare I say it, free from parental or domestic restraints of one kind or another and they are participating in the age old process of travelling to gain university education. That has always been a feature, and remains a very attractive component, of third level education. These students are away from home for the first time, living with friends in flats or houses and making their own way in every sense of the word.
I accept the Deputy's point that the more people who participate in third level education the better for the country. Great strides were made in the participation rates in this area during the eighties when both the Deputy's party and the Fianna Fáil Party were in Government. I am glad of this. This has been helped greatly by European funding for regional and vocational education committees. While I accept that there is a need for more involvement and participation in third level education, I do not fully accept the Deputy's point that all young people of 17, 18 or 19 years want to stay in their own town or county. As I have said, an attractive component of third level education is the fact that young people travel and learn to stand on their own feet.
A Cheann Comhairle——
Please, Deputy Howlin, I want to deal with Question No. 23 if I may.
I want to ask a final brief supplementary. I put it to the Minister that her view is simply one view, and a rather old-fashioned and traditionalist view of third level education. That is only one model and I am asking her to consider another model which can go happily with the existing traditional model. I am asking her to give a chance to the young people from my county who are excluded from third level education, those who cannot afford to leave home and enjoy the freedoms to which the Minister referred——
The Deputy is wrong, my view is not old-fashioned. Under the Erasmus project young people are now travelling all over Europe, not to talk about going from County Wexford to County Waterford. The Deputy should not be daft. The whole idea——
Not everyone can——
——is that as you travel you learn: travel broadens the mind and the more one travels the more one learns. There cannot be a third level institution in every county; that would not work. The Deputy said my view was old fashioned but there is nothing more modern than the young people on the Erasmus scheme who are travelling all over Europe to attend further third level education colleges.
I stated — the Deputy chose not to refer to this point — that the higher education grants scheme addresses the problem of distance from college through the provision of higher rates of maintenance for those living away from home. As I said, the Government and I remain committed to greater participation rates in third level education. We will look at whatever proposals are put forward but I repeat that it would not be possible to provide a third level facility in every county.
