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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 5 Mar 1991

Vol. 405 No. 9

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - PRSI Benefits.

Paul Connaughton

Ceist:

9 Mr. Connaughton asked the Minister for Social Welfare if he proposes to extend the benefits of PRSI for the self-employed to farmers and others who will not be ten years contributing to the scheme prior to their 66th birthday; if he will allow such participants an opportunity to remain in the scheme after their 66th birthday until such time as their minimum contribution record is completed; and if he will publish an actuarial assessment on the costings involved in allowing the self-employed to buy their pension rights where applicable.

Andrew Boylan

Ceist:

130 Mr. Boylan asked the Minister for Social Welfare if farmers under the age 66 and over the age of 56 making PRSI payments will qualify for full old age contributory benefits on reaching qualifying age; if not, whether all payments made will be fully refunded with interest paid; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

I propose to take Questions Nos. 9 and 130 together.

To qualify for the old age contributory pension, a person must have entered insurance at least ten years before pension age. This condition has been a feature of the scheme since it was introduced in 1961. The purpose of the condition is to ensure that entitlement to the pension is limited to those who have made a reasonable level of contributions to the social insurance fund during the course of their careers.

This condition applies to self-employed persons, including farmers, in the same way as it applies to all other insured people. Accordingly, self-employed persons who became insured for the first time when social insurance was extended to the self-employed in 1988 and who were then aged 56 or over will not qualify for the old age contributory pension. However, self-employed persons in that age group who had been insured as employed contributors for any period prior to age 56 could qualify for the old age contributory pension. Such insurance can be combined with insurance as a self-employed contributor for old age pension purposes.

It should be noted that these social insurance contributions payable by self-employed also give cover for widow's contributory pension to which entitlement can arise after three years insurance. The self-employed will have been paying contributions for three years by end of March of this year. We are coming to a significant point in March in so far as the self-employed are concerned in relation to the widow's contributory pension.

Detailed consideration has been given by my Department to the possibility of providing for entitlement to the old age contributory pension to persons who entered insurance for the first time as self-employed contributors less than ten years before pension age. A number of options were considered and an initial actuarial assessment of the costs involved was carried out. On the basis of the rates of pension payable in 1989, when the costings were made, it was estimated that the net cost of paying old age contributory pensions to all self-employed contributors who were aged between 56 and 66 in April 1988 would amount to — I am talking about the net cost — £756 million over the lifetime of the persons concerned. The extra rate of contribution which would have to be paid by self-employed contributors to finance such an extension would be 2.4 per cent over a 50 year period.

Refunds of the old age pension element of the contribution may be made to those who entered insurance less than ten years before pension age and who fail to qualify for either an old age contributory or non-contributory pension. This includes provision for the payment of interest on such refunds due after 1 November 1990. The rate of interest is equal to the increase in the consumer price index for each full calendar year after the date the contributions have been made.

The Government have also given a commitment in the Programme for Economic and Social Progress to examine the possibility, in the context of structural reform in agriculture, of an arrangement whereby farmers in the older age groups selling, leasing or transferring their farms will be provided with a retirement incentive related to means. In this same context of structural reform, the interaction with the position of farmers aged 56 and over who pay PRSI contributions but who will not qualify for a contributory pension will be considered. Discussions on this matter have already commenced between the officials of my Department and the Department of Agriculture and Food.

Would the Minister agree that over 14,000 farmers will be deemed ineligible for an old age contributory pension because they have not paid their contributions for the ten year period? How hopeful is he that these farmers, and other self-employed people, will get benefit? Is it not possible to allow them to continue to pay their contributions for a few years above the age of 66 so that they will be eligible for a contributory old age pension?

I have to say that the time available to us for dealing with priority questions is exhausted. Perhaps we can have a brief reply from the Minister.

Very briefly, a substantial number of farmers, and other self-employed people, are in that situation.

Would the Minister consider increasing the number——

I am very anxious to find a solution to the problem but there are major costs involved. The cost of giving a pension for life from the age of 45 upwards would be very substantial. This was the case when we brought in the self-employed on a once off basis. So far as the farmers are concerned, there are two things I would say. First, from the end of March farmers, and the self-employed, who have been paying contributions for three years will have cover for widows pension.

We will come to that in a minute.

This is very important. Sadly, I know of cases where people have died two or three months ago and are not covered. Those who have been paying contributions for three years will be covered from the end of March, which is very important. Secondly, what we do in terms of structural reform will be very important for farmers. This is the right way to look at this issue given the overall situation.

Will they be means tested?

It is related to the circumstances——

The Chair has to have regard to Standing Orders in dealing with priority questions. The time is long over.

The Deputy will have to give us time to develop this.

Let us proceed to other questions now. Question No. 10, please.

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