Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 2 May 1991

Vol. 407 No. 8

Adjournment Debate. - Social Welfare Matter.

Mr. Connaughton

I should like to thank the Ceann Comhairle for allowing my request to discuss the basis on which farm income is calculated for social welfare purposes. I also thank the Minister of State for attending but I am somewhat disappointed that the Minister for Social Welfare is not present.

I wish to draw the attention of the Minister to his reply to me yesterday in the Dáil at Question Time. I regard the answer to my question to have been misleading and not reflecting the system used by social welfare officers when calculating farm income. I do not place any blame on social welfare officers. As far as I am concerned they carry out the instruction as per their masters in the Department of Social Welfare.

I take issue with the information contained in the Dáil reply yesterday when the Minister stated that means from farming for unemployment assistance purposes are assessed on a factual basis and are investigated by social welfare officers, that these assessments make allowances for all the typical expenses and for any exceptional circumstances, that means are not assessed on the basis of stock on hand and that they are assessed by reference to sales of stock and farm produce in the past 12 months plus income from grants and subsidies. I have extensive proof to show that livestock numbers are notionally calculated.

I know of a farmer who applied for unemployment assistance and was credited with selling 75 lambs. This farmer has 50 ewes but in 1990 there were only 58 lambs born so he could not sell 75. The Department of Social Welfare use a calculation system the equivalent of 1½ lambs per ewe.

Similarly, I have seen cases where a farmer had ten cows and would normally purchase five calves. Thus it would be reasonable if 15 cattle were sold as two-year olds, if none of these animals were retained as breeding stock.

However, a farmer holding three such animals for breeding purposes would be financially worse off during the second and third years while he was waiting for these animals to go into production.

The Department of Social Welfare do not recognise properly compiled farm figures duly approved by the Revenue Commissioners. Also I find stock values are notionally assessed. It appears that the Department have guidelines to calculate prices for cattle and sheep on an average basis. If for any reason a farmer gets less at the mart or factory it is not reflected in the calculations.

An Ceann Comhairle

I must now call the Minister of State.

Mr. Connaughton

If for any reason a farmer gets less at a mart or factory——

An Ceann Comhairle

I am sorry, Deputy, it is a two minute statement.

Mr. Connaughton

——it is not reflected in the calculations.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy has exceeded his time.

Minister of State at the Department of Health (Mr. Flood)

I am deputising here this afternoon for the Minister for Social Welfare, Deputy Woods, who has asked me to apologise for his absence. The Minister is unable to be here as he is opening the National Technology Centre for the Deaf. Before I read the Minister's speech I would like to say that I understand the Deputy received a full written reply on this subject yesterday. The Deputy acknowledged this.

The Minister is satisfied that the provisions of the social welfare Acts, which govern the assessment of means from farming for unemployment assistance purposes, are interpreted in as fair a manner as possible by his Department's deciding officers who have statutory independence in making their decisions and by appeals officers who also have statutory independence. The independence of appeals officers was underlined recently when he established the social welfare appeals office as a separate entity.

The practice adopted over the years in assessing income from farming is to estimate what this income is likely to be in an average year with due allowance being made for necessary expenses. A farmer is given every opportunity to present his-her case, supported by whatever evidence is available. Reasonable allowances are made for expenses which cannot be directly supported by evidence. The objective at all times is to be fair to the client within the context of the legislation. If there is any case where the smallholder is experiencing special difficulties his claim can be reviewed on an interim basis.

The Minister has introduced several measures during his term in office to improve the lot of the smallholder. He increased the rural rate of assistance to equal the higher urban rate. He arranged that the value of produce from a farm consumed by the household is no longer taken into account in means assessments. This benefits all smallholders throughout the country. He has also arranged that the income in Gaeltacht areas from keeping Irish language students is no longer taken into account in means assessments for unemployment assistance. This benefits many smallholders in Gaeltacht areas and is additional to the exemption from assessment of farm produce.

This House can rest assured that the Minister's approach will always be to be fair and as reasonable as possible within the parameters of the legislation to all social welfare clients, including smallholders, and to improve their position to whatever extent is possible.

The Dáil adjourned at 4.25 p.m. until 2.30 p.m. on Tuesday, 7 May 1991.