Deputy Liam Lawlor was in possession and he has a maximum of 20 minutes.
Private Members' Business. - Youth Services Bill, 1990: Second Stage (Resumed).
Question again proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."
I suppose there is nobody in a better position to address the issue of young people in our society than one who represents the constituency of Dublin West. There are probably more young members in our constituency than in any other constituency in the country.
Dublin West embraces what were a number of County Dublin villages at the commencement of the seventies. The constituency was expanded in the early eighties to take in that densely populated area of Ballyfermot. Out in the county Lucan-Clondalkin and Blanchardstown, two of the three new satellite towns, Tallaght being the third, were put forward by the then county council as three new satellite towns with a projected population of 100,000 by 1991. As we address this issue here this evening, Tallaght has a population in excess of 80,000, Lucan-Clondalkin over 60,000 and the greater Blanchardstown area close to 50,000. Within those populations the demographics highlight the very large teenage population and the whole age structure of that horseshoe on the west side of Dublin.
That leads one to identify and endeavour to meet the challenges that this vast young dynamic population throw up to the political system, to the local authorities, to the educational systems and all the relevant bodies that have a responsibility to provide the framework within which our young people can express their talents and abilities.
There is great fragmentation in what I will call the direct line of responsibility for coping with the challenges, the difficulties and the provision of opportunities for young people. This fragmentation is of great concern to anybody representing a large constituency where last week the Minister for Justice, in a reaction to a very serious teenage disturbance that arose in my constituency, responded with the appointment of a task force to look at the problems in the urban areas. These disturbances stemmed from the difficulties of a small but very vigorous group of young people.
One can try to identify the problems and ask why we are having this task force. One must ask if there is anything in Deputy Deenihan's Bill, if there is anything in what the Minister has been attempting to achieve. In trying to cope with the challenges of responding to the young people's demands we find, looking back over the last decade, that our talented young people have been fortunate. There has been a reasonably high success rate of securing employment. Unfortunately large numbers of our talented young people have left our shores. I know the Minister of State, Deputy Fahey and Deputy Deenihan have been very active in this area over quite a long period. This exodus is more obvious in the rural constituencies. In the greater Dublin area emigration from constituencies seems to go unnoticed until one goes knocking on doors to discover the parents are highlighting this aspect.
All of this leaves young people with a sense of hopelessness, a sense of no real future, a future without real opportunities. Having sat on the boards of management in a number of post-primary schools and colleges and having looked at the whole area of FÁS apprenticeships and third level education, I find that there tends to be fragmentation and a need for some sort of cohesion.
We on this side of the House cannot accept the Bill because of the aspects already articulated by the Minister. However, the fact that Deputy Deenihan has brought this Bill before the House gives us the opportunity to discuss this matter and that is welcome. I hope that at the end of the debate some new positive ideas will have emerged that will help us to make progress on this very challenging matter.
In the likes of the north Clondalkin area, probably 4,000 to 5,000 of a population of 20,000 are teenagers. Many of them have met the statutory requirement and have concluded their formal education. Because of the lack of openings and apprenticeships many of the young people, boys particularly, find it difficult to get a foot on the first rung of the ladder of employment. There are these short snappy FÁS courses that tide young people over, enable them to gain some experience and stream them for employment which will possibly, but only possibly, emerge. If one visits the FÁS centres in Ballyfermot or Tallaght one discovers that their success rate after the courses is not as good as one would like because the opportunities are not there.
In my own constituency there is a debate emerging regarding the provision of services and facilities for young people. Can we truthfully say that the limited resources that are being provided are being directed to the right areas? We must look brutally at the limited funds and direct them accordingly. In Dublin County Council some years ago we were discovering a demand for resources for indoor sporting activities for the young population in various parts of the county. Very glossy well presented proposals were coming forward from parts of the county that were fairly adequately provided for anyway. However, because they had the local architect or bank manager or other professional on the committee in particular communities their comprehensive submission was much better researched and had a much better chance of raising the local contributions so that those projects got approval.
However, the large local authority housing estates that were a reaction to a centre city housing crisis were being neglected. In these areas where seven-eighths of the homes were built and owned by Dublin Corporation, officialdom and elected members were not responding by endeavouring to provide the assistance necessary. Eventually we devised what were called the CODAN areas with the intention of weighting the spending of our limited resources on community projects in those areas. I suggest that we agree, collectively, that whatever national lottery moneys or other resources are made available they should be directed, perhaps in a three year programme, towards the provision of proper facilities and back-up services in those areas most in need of them. Each of us has received demands in respect of very worthy projects from clubs in our constituencies, such as the local rugby club, GAA club and so on. However, we will have to concentrate on providing the limited resources available to those areas where a steel container, acting as a dressing room, would represent a major step forward and where other facilities to provide limited cover and protection should be provided as a matter of urgency.
I hope the Minister of State will use the task force which has been set up recently to get across the message he has been pioneering while recognising, given the limited resources available, that we will always feel enough is not being done in this area. I suggest that a financial package should be arranged for this task force, at the appropriate level, to allow them tackle this problem.
While I may be moving away from the content of the Bill which Deputy Deenihan introduced, let me cite a number of examples in relation to the provision of facilities for young people. What is required in large estates in County Dublin is a floodlit astro surface with proper dressingroom facilities, including showers, to allow young boys in those areas to dissipate their tremendous energy in street leagues and soccer competitions. This is what is needed by young teenagers in any community of over 1,000 houses. However, these are not to be found in my constituency which perhaps contains as many as 20,000 young people.
Indoor facilities are also limited and existing facilities have been provided by the local community with limited resources from the local authorities and possibly one-quarter of the amount required from national lottery funds. We have a number of under-funded projects which are struggling and barely meeting the needs of the adult population in the area and they are certainly not adequate to meet the needs of the young teenage population.
These leisure centres which may be provided by commercial companies in the Blanchardstown and north Clondalkin areas will include bowling and other indoor sporting facilities in addition to cinemas. These are essential. We must, however, tackle the difficulties which have arisen in Neilstown, in my constituency, head on and endeavour to provide facilities, not to accommodate the 50 blackguards or brats who cause problems but the other 4,950 who do not cause problems and who have been denied basic facilities which could be to hand. That is what we must attempt to achieve. There has been a proliferation of soccer clubs in my constituency. I am sure the same has happened in your own constituency, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle. People in County Dublin have given up their time to look after lads who play that game. Local authority pitches have been provided but where is the coaching or scholarships which will provide an outlet for young people with talent in these communities?
Much has been achieved in the sporting arena. I call on the Minister of State with responsibility for sport to recognise that despite our best efforts to get the co-operation of the GAA, the IRFU and the FAI, to date no national stadium has been built. Such a facility could be provided in my constituency. With a little ingenuity and the support of the commercial sector, some practical proposals should emerge to provide not just a national stadium but recreational facilities which should be built around such a complex. I sincerely hope such a complex could be provided between the satellite towns of Tallaght, Clondalkin, Lucan and Blanchardstown which will be accessible from the national primary network. At such a facility teenagers could be used to set up competitions. I believe that, with the commitment of our leading sports people, particularly during the summer months a range of sporting facilities could be provided in a complex built on a 100 acre site, scholarships could be provided and teenagers from all over the country could come there to compete.
It is very worrying that qualified operatives cannot secure permanent employment. Opportunities and outlets should be provided for young unskilled and unqualified people so that they can find a place in the workplace. As I said earlier, I have to deal with this problem more than any other Deputy given the age structure in the new urban areas. I sincerely hope the task force will address this issue. It must be very frustrating for Members on all sides that the Minister for Industry and Commerce has a committee reviewing industrial policy, who will not report before the end of the year, while the Taoiseach's Department also are chairing a task force on unemployment. We now have yet another task force whose function is to tackle what is already well known. One often wonders why it has taken us so long to come up with firm, realistic and practical proposals to tackle some of these issues. Why did we have to wait for 40 to 50 young brats in Neilstown to burn stolen cars, which necessitated the fire brigade being called, before we set up a task force? It is obvious that we have had this problem for some time and there is plenty of information to hand, yet we had to wait for that national headline before we got that type of reaction.
I am concerned that the political system is on trial in those large urban areas. The previous Government faced the same difficulties. When the then Tánaiste and Minister for the Environment, Deputy Spring, recognised that major problems were beginning to emerge in large urban areas, particularly in County Dublin, he decided to appoint a development co-ordinator to co-ordinate activities to ensure that these facilities and job opportunities would be provided for these young populations. I welcomed his decision at that time but people seemed to get bogged down deciding who they should report to and the initiative never got off the ground even though there was a real need for it.
Local government has been further fragmented. This, in theory, has brought local representatives closer to the community but have better services been provided or dynamic improvements been made to facilities for which the local authorities in large urban areas are responsible? We have to come to the conclusion, unfortunately, that the answer is no, that the situation is grave and getting more serious. I sincerely feel that if this Bill — which this side of the House cannot accept — does anything it gives us the opportunity to discuss the plight of young people and the necessity for action on their behalf. I hope dynamic action will follow and that the industrial policy review, the task force on unemployment and the new task force, will co-ordinate a new programme with the Minister responsible. However, the Minister has a limited responsibility and depends on a number of other Ministries and organisations to respond to the desirable policies which he believes we should be pursuing. There is great frustration at the lack of action and because these problems have been allowed to grow and develop.
There is another problem which needs to be identified and a "hands on" response and practical assistance is needed. Parents are responsible for their sons and daughters but if they are not exercising responsibility or capable of being responsible, then the local system or community must, in some shape or form, deal with the problem. For example, when the board of management of a community college have to make a decision to expel a young pupil the parents are called in. Usually the mother comes alone, the child is from a broken home and there are various difficulties. The child, who is not under parental control, is causing problems as he has drawn a knife on another pupil in the college. One rotten apple in the barrel — probably ten in 1,000 — can cause great problems and difficulties which are very difficult to tackle. Out of approximately 5,000 teenagers in north Clondalkin, 50 have caused the setting up of a task force from which I hope something good will come. I have no doubt that throughout the country in large urban areas the problems to which I referred also pertain and need to be addressed. I hope there will be dynamic action as a result of this debate.
With the permission of the House I should like to share my time with Deputy McGrath.
Is that agreed? Agreed.
This Bill is very timely bacause we have to look very seriously at our economic policies of the last 20 years. I am convinced that these policies have failed us. Last year's much hyped economic growth of 7 per cent represented a decline in jobs of 5,000 which represents the extent to which the policy has failed. Most people know those figures but one which has escaped the notice of many is the extent to which the recent growth in unemployment has been concentrated on our young people. In the last 12 months alone youth unemployment has grown by a massive 40 per cent, which is a total indictment of the policy for our young people. We now have almost 80,000 young people under the age of 25 unemployed.
Where are the class of 1981, the class of children who were then aged ten to 14 years? The sad facts are revealed in the recent census of population published last week on the age groups. There were 340,000 children in that age group at that stage and an alarming figure of 76,500 of them have now left the country although they are barely in their early twenties. Nearly a quarter of the class of 1981 have left. They were the cream of our youth, bursting with potential, and they are now in another country. Sadly, many of them as we learned from the streets of London are no credit to this country. If the outflow of emigrants has declined in the last 12 months it is precisely because of the point I made earlier, that youth unemployment has grown by 40 per cent. In 12 months an extra 23,000 people have gone on the dole. One might say that the bulk of that class — another 20 per cent — are now unemployed. Therefore, nearly half the class of 1981 have either emigrated or are unemployed. An equally alarming fact is that of that class, 25,000 left school without any educational qualification. That says something serious about an education system which we like to spend a lot of time praising.
The employment experience of these children has been grim; the children who left school without any qualifications spent 45 per cent of their time out of work. We must face up to the tragedy that our education system — although it is good — is not getting through to many of our young people; they are trapped in a vicious circle of deprivation. It is appalling to see figures which I noted recently, that in some parts of this city as many as 10 per cent of children are leaving school without the basic three Rs, although they are not functionally illiterate. It does not take much imagination to realise what the prospects are for those young children who cannot basically read or write. It will not be long before they slip into a life of intermittent employment and perhaps much worse.
There are structural barriers in our education system to give children a chance to get through. At present fewer than 5 per cent of the children of unskilled workers get through to any sort of third level education and a minuscule proportion get into university. The gap between what we put into the education of a school drop-out at the age of 15 or 16 and a graduate is a yawning one. We spend about £7,500 on the child who leaves school without a qualification — and much of the money does not get through to that child — and, in contrast, we spend £26,000 of taxpayers' money educating the graduate. That contrast must be addressed and this Bill is designed to look seriously at the sort of issues that face young people today.
It is an equally grim fact — and Deputy Lawlor referred to it extensively — that many of the class of 1981 have slipped into a life of crime. Last year 9,000 persons under the age of 21 were convicted in our courts. Young people make up over half of all those convicted in our courts. All parties in this House agree that the response to this growing problem is not a crude question of extra policing or tougher sentencing. Indeed, we would all seriously question whether the 2,000 children and young people who ended up in prison or detention last year learned anything from their experience in detention which would lead them from a life of crime. The likelihood is that they are more likely to slip into a life of crime following that experience.
We have not developed the sort of services which can reach out to young people at risk of slipping into a life of crime. To take one example, in our cities today there are 800 homeless children who are extremely vulnerable to slipping into a life of crime. While the problem of the young homeless has grown, the number of places available to them has declined. Like Deputy Lawlor, I welcome the Minister's announcement of a task force embracing the Departments of Health, Education, Social Welfare, Labour and others. However, let us look at what the Bill is trying to do. It is seeking to enshrine a permanent policy-making role involving people from those Departments so that we can have a coherent approach to the problems facing young people today. It would not be just a once off task to deal with the problems in Neilstown and produce a report in a few months' time so that the Government can be seen to be doing something about them. This would be a permanent, critical, independent body that would be there at all times to review policy in relation to young people. That is why this is such an important and timely Bill. It is ironic that at a time when the Government are describing this as a bureaucratic approach to young people's problems they are forced following an outbreak of crime in a small part of this city to do something that is only a half-baked attempt compared to what this Bill proposes in such a constructive way.
Another group of the class of 1981 are the ten thousand people who were born with a significant impairment of their physical or intellectual capacity. They, most of all, have had huge obstacles placed in the way of developing their full potential — for example, access to care, education, therapy, training and employment have been cruelly rationed to these people. For some of these people and their carers, they have been strained almost to breaking point. All Members know of the plight of carers who are struggling to deal with a problem that will not go away because they cannot get placements for these people.
As we look back on the school photograph of the class of 1981 and ask where are they now, the answer is a sorry indictment of current policy. The emigrant, the unemployed, the school drop-out, the juvenile offender and the person with the disability make up well over half of that class. It is difficult to look any of them in the eye and say that we have not failed them as a country. Policy has failed to tailor itself to the needs of our young. It is families with large numbers of young people and those with single parents who have figured in the surveys as those most prone to poverty. Young people have become prey to homelessness, sexual abuse and substance abuse on a scale that was unimaginable ten or 20 years ago. Growing numbers of young people are, sadly, becoming marginalised as we have seen only this week.
If we look at the tax code we find it makes no allowance for the cost of providing for our young people. If young people are unemployed and choose to stay at home with their parents they get only a fraction of the social assistance they would get if they left home. If they seek training they face the frustration that most apprenticeship places are already spoken for for people with contacts in the trade. If they aspire to drive a car they are treated as if they are already proven reckless drivers by having to pay premiums of £2,000 or more. This puts driving completely out of the reach of young people.
In the last ten years there has been a huge change in sexual attitudes among our young people. Young people today face enormous pressures and hazards that did not exist when we were going to school. We cannot overlook the dramatic changes in sexual attitudes and sexual behaviour in the world in which this generation of young people are growing up. Young people are becoming sexually active at a younger age and this is of enormous concern to all people. Last year over 2,000 babies were born to unmarried teenage mothers. I have no doubt that these children brought enormous joy to those young mothers' lives but for many of them it has destroyed an opportunity of making full use of their young lives. All too often, as the statistics show, they slip into lives of deprivation. I often wonder how many of the 4,000 young Irish women who have gone to the UK to have abortions are young single teenagers who had to face a situation whose description defies comment. It is grim to think of young people going to clinics in the UK on their own to have an abortion, often anonymous and undeclared.
Our education system has not got to grips with the need to equip our young people to cope in this vital area of their lives. Education must impart to our young people a self respect and a respect for one another in their sexual relationships. It must give them the confidence to say no in a world that is increasingly macho and that puts young people under pressure to conform to that image.
Sadly, another growing threat to our young people today is the risk of sexually transmitted diseases, particularly AIDS. Official efforts to inform young people about the risks of this disease are not getting through, and this must be faced up to. However strongly we feel about the responsibility of them engaging in casual sexual relationships, we cannot but feel even more strongly about their irresponsibility of engaging in such relationships without protection, exposing themselves and their partners to risks.
This Bill is particularly timely. There is a catalogue of problems facing young people today, many of them in the health area where there is increasing evidence of substance abuse and of young people contracting diseases related to behavioural patterns rather than to traditional illnesses. We have to get to grips with policy throughout a whole range of issues that affect young people if we are to deliver the sort of policy they deserve. This Bill is a positive and valuable contribution towards doing that and should commend itself to the House.
I thank my colleague for sharing his time with me. First, I congratulate Deputy Jimmy Deenihan on taking the initiative and bringing this Bill before the House. It gives us a great opportunity to discuss some of the problems facing our young people today. Initially I would like to refer to the speech by the Minister of State at the Department of Education last week and his subsequent broadcast on national radio in which he indicated that what is needed in our youth services is more money. He went on to say that he was making trojan efforts to ensure that the £10 million available for youth services this year will be available once again next year. However, he did not indicate that of that £10 million, all but approximately £50,000 was lottery money. With the national lottery growing year by year it would be disappointing if that money was not available once again for youth services. Perhaps a greater proportion of it should be made available for youth services, as was initially intended.
It is important to point out to the Minister of State that it is his job to ensure that those services are available to our young people. The former Minister for Education, when in Opposition, indicated to the then Minister for Education, former Deputy Gemma Hussey, that if she was unable to get sufficient funds to run her Department and provide the educational services needed, she was not doing her job properly and should step aside. I repeat for the Minister of State, Deputy Fahey, the words of that famous lady, that if he cannot get the funds to operate the youth services entrusted to his care he, as Minister of State at the Department of Education, should step aside.
I welcome the opportunity to discuss youth services and the many excellent suggestions raised in the Bill. For example, section 5 refers to the provision of suitable training courses for youth leaders. There are tens of thousands of people who week after week throughout the country give of their time, energy, enthusiasm and commitment in providing the out of school services and activities our young people look forward to and from which they gain so much. Scout leaders, youth club organisers, Foróige people, culture group teachers and many sporting clubs, hurling, football, handball, rugby, soccer and so on, play a major part in helping our young people develop into well adjusted and responsible adults. I sometimes think that the role these adults play in helping our young people to develop is not recognised. One of the important aspects of this Bill is that it would give those adult groups around the country an opportunity to meet. It is very important that we provide the resources for the facilities with which these adult leaders can develop the sporting skills of our young people which together with their formal school education equips them to take their place in adult society.
The youth services do not operate in opposition to schools but rather complement them and help to complete a person's education. The training facility as outlined in the Bill would be invaluable in helping the many voluntary leaders to better equip themselves to play their important role in our young people's development.
Section 6 provides for the establishment of local youth advisory committees which should provide a forum at local level in which views and experience can be shared, policy formulated, and young people encouraged to take an active role in deciding their own destiny. The formation of such a group would have enormous benefits for the youth services in the area.
Young people are experiencing an increasing level of alienation from the political system. When my colleague, Deputy Austin Currie, contested the 1989 general election in Dublin West he commented on the high degree of apathy and distrust of politicians that he experienced during the canvass in this part of Ireland as compared with his former home in Northern Ireland. I was amazed to learn that he received such a reaction. Indeed, Deputy Deenihan found, in a survey he conducted in the wake of the sordid scandals of recent times, that 88 per cent of the young people surveyed thought that these events had damaged the credibility of the Government and 71 per cent agreed that politicians had failed this country. Not only is that a damning response, to us as politicians but it also indicates their disillusionment with the way politics is being conducted. Indeed, as I look around at the attendance at branch meetings — and I believe the same is true of other parties — the small number of high calibre young people who become involved is very worrying for the future. Young people bring new life and blood into an organisation and their idealism and involvement give a new impetus to it. We must, by our actions, set an example which they would wish to follow and thereby get involved in political parties.
Our young people are crying out for a code of ethics in public life. They want to see high standards in high places. They are sick of the scandals emerging in private and public sector companies. Young people agree with the call for a register of interests of TDs and Senators. Can they be impressed by the Taoiseach's recent announcement that we should abandon the multi-seat PR system for a new system so that he could achieve stable Government? Does this mean a one-party Fianna Fáil administration with all the attendant mismanagement and cronyism that goes with that?
Young people will be very critical of the Minister's rejection of this Bill. Why are the Government so afraid of allowing youth organisations have a united voice at national level? Why is the Minister so opposed to the formalisation of youth services? Are the Government going to prevent progress in youth services because they are unable to provide suitable funding?
I ask all sides of the House to support this worthy Bill.
I am pleased to contribute to the debate on this Bill. Regardless of who is in office at any given time, it has been our experience that Private Members' Bills have been used too often as a political ploy to embarrass the Government of the day. I do not think any such unworthy motive applies in this case. Deputy Deenihan is making a sincere effort to address a complex and serious problem and he is to be commended for doing so.
I was a bit disappointed with Deputy McGrath's comments on his constituency colleague, the former Minister for Education — a Leas-Cheann Comhairle, I wish to share my time with Deputy Martin, and I regret that I did not ask before this.
We have a precedent for that. Is that agreed? Agreed.
I hope this is not the result of jealousy of the Minister's success in her task, because it is widely recognised throughout the country that both she and the Minister of State have made a tremendous contribution in education.
The question must be asked whether this Bill offers any practical improvement in the operation of youth services. I am afraid the answer must be in the negative. I agree with the Minister of State's comment that we have had more than enough reports, committees and that what we need most is extra money. I am sure that everybody in this House supports this comment because any resources allocated to youth services is money well spent.
Deputy Deenihan's Bill gives this House the opportunity of examining the obvious defects in the present system. I believe they can be overcome; not by bringing in new legislation but by co-ordinating and streamlining the administration of all the measures already in place. As pointed out in the Bill, at least five Government Departments are involved in one way or another in youth services and very often it is a case of one not knowing what the other is doing. Voluntary organisations throughout the country are engaged in sterling work day-in day-out with young people, and especially with those who are most deprived. I am well aware of the work of Ógra Chorcaigh, Foróige, the National Youth Federation, the GAA, the Girl Guides, the Scouts, and all sporting organisations. Indeed, we never hear of the great work of many voluntary organisations. I would particularly like to mention a Capuchin, Father Roch, who provides training opportunities in one scheme or another for approximately 150 homeless boys and girls, many of whom come from broken homes. I am very glad to acknowledge that he is getting great assistance from the Department and particularly from the Minister of State, Deputy Fahey. His work is also well recognised by the people of Cork and long may it continue. We have a Minister of State with responsibility for youth and sport and it is absolutely essential that his office should be fully aware of and involved in what various Departments are doing in this area. Instead, we have seen instances where funding has been allocated to certain youth projects unknown to the Minister of State, simply because the relevant Department did not inform him. I suggest that a co-ordinating committee be set up under the direction of the Minister of State on as permanent a basis as possible with a representative from each Department involved.
We have all been made vividly aware in recent times of cases of what was known in the past as juvenile delinquency, only now it has developed into downright juvenile crime. The horrifying consequences include attacks on life and limb; we hear of cases of child drug abuse, of glue sniffing, cider parties and so-called joyriding incidents and so on. The list is endless and very depressing. The worst excesses occur usually in large, urban-sprawl areas with populations of anything from 25,000 to 100,000 people and with very few facilities to brighten the lives of young people. We are told that so-called problem children or teenagers are a small minority but even such a small minority constitutes too many because of the consequences for society.
It is very easy to be patronising by putting all of the blame on parents, but each of us should put ourselves in the place of such a parent, maybe a single parent in poor housing, perhaps unemployed, with teenagers who have no recreational facilities in their locality apart from meeting their peers at the street corner. From such meetings can come the kind of behaviour that is often described as a protest against a society they see as depriving them. I doubt whether those young people would define their motives in quite such profound terms but I am certain of one thing; if any such group had a decent youth club or sports facility nearby, they would be much more likely to expend their excess energies in a manner in which they could enjoy themselves without causing so much concern to their parents and their neighbours.
I am sure that the Minister of State must feel frustrated that the hoped-for sports centres that were promised, with funding from the natinal lottery, have been so slow in materialising. Perhaps there are good, practical reasons for the delay, but I, too, am very disappointed. It could be that our expectations have been too grand and too ambitious. We talk of Olympic-size swimming pools and national sports centres but perhaps we should first concentrate our efforts on much smaller projects, strategically located in the kind of areas I have mentioned.
Nowadays it has become the fashion to demand that the lottery funds everything under the sun. It should be remembered that one of the primary purposes for which the lottery was set up in the first place was to assist youth and sport. The two are closely connected. If the entire proceeds of the lottery were to be devoted to that one area there would still not be enough funding. In times of financial stringency, such as the present, it is vital that we clearly identify our priorities. I suggest that the youth services occupy a very high place on the list. It should not be the case that we cannot afford to spend the money, we simply cannot afford not to tackle this major crisis with as great an urgency as can be generated. The alternative is to allow the development of an ever-growing threat of the creation of a criminal class, which in turn would tax our penal system to the limit and beyond in economic terms alone. If the necessary money is spent now, the return later will be tenfold. What could be conserved in terms of the quality of life is beyond calculation.
I am confident that the Minister of State will agree with virtually every word I have said and that if he is given the funds and the necessary co-operation by the Government Departments concerned he will tackle this major problem with tremendous vigour. We must all try to convince the Department of Finance to think along the lines I have suggested.
Meanwhile, there are some things that can be done without delay. I understand that there are about 40,000 youth leaders throughout the country, mostly volunteers. They belong to a variety of bodies, some of which were formed by splitting away from other groups — perhaps for good reason, I do not know — but I am sure that all have one objective in mind, and that is that agreement be reached on a national standard of training and of certification of youth leaders. That could be achieved if a body such as the National Youth Council or the National Youth Federation, or both, were to be asked by the Minister to consult with every group and come up with a standard system within a period of, say, 12 months.
My second point is that an inter-departmental committee as I have described should be set up by the Minister without delay.
My third point is that all grants allocated to youth projects of any kind by various Departments should be channelled through the office of the Minister of State or if for some reason that is not possible, the Minister should be consulted in advance either directly or through the inter-departmental committee.
If those suggestions were acted on the ground work would be laid for a much more effective service for our young people. Then perhaps the case could be made more clearly for a greater level of the kind of funding so urgently needed if we are to address the problem seriously.
Like most Members in the House, I am sure I could go on and on. We talk so much about our young people but I do feel that we must give more recognition to the role of those who are endeavouring to do something positive for youth in the many organisations that I have mentioned. I know that the Minister is very committed in this respect and that he has a close association with youth organisations throughout the country.
I had a pleasant experience last Saturday night when I deputised for the Lord Mayor of Cork at the 60th Anniversary celebrations of the Eighth Cork Scout Troup the founder of which——
I hope the Deputy will be able to do so again next Saturday.
Next Saturday will suit if the Deputy succeeds in getting a couple of his colleagues to see sense, particularly the two who voted for the service charges here in 1983 but who voted against them on Sunday night.
The founder of the troup I have referred to was a man by the name of John O'Donoghue. Sixty years later he was witnessing the result of his work. It was a pleasure to attend such an occasion when the work of a committed person in the community — a person who worked behind the scenes — was acknowledged. Other people, too, who attended the function had given their whole lives to community work. All of us here as legislators — irrespective of our differences — owe it to those people to assist them in every way possible in helping to deal with the many complex issues and problems in our community. I hope that the contributions to this debate from all sides will be positive and will give the Minister the support he so urgently needs in going to the people who make the decisions seeking the resources necessary to allow him implement the many policies and projects he would so dearly like to establish. I am glad to have had the opportunity here this evening to speak and I hope that progress will be made as a result of this debate.
First I pay tribute to Deputy Deenihan for introducing the Bill in so far as it allows the House an opportunity to discuss youth services and youth affairs and the policy of the State in this area.
I also pay tribute to the Minister of State with responsibility for youth affairs, Deputy Frank Fahey, who has done particularly good work in the Department throughout the years. In particular, he has succeeded in having raised very significantly the level of funding for youth services in the past years. He should be given credit for that.
I have been disappointed in the debate in that it has been somewhat predictable in concentrating on the existing youth services. In some respects there has been a lack of any critical analysis of the existing services, and these need to be radically reappraised. Serious questions need to be asked, including the question of the relationship between the youth services and the mass of our young people. To what extent do young people on the streets in the rural townlands and elsewhere know of the existence of many of the national youth organisations?
I remember giving an address to the National Youth Council about three years ago, and in this regard I must preface my remarks by saying that I am in no way critical of the personnel involved; they do extremely good work, are very highly motivated and many are voluntary youth workers. It was stated that the council represented more than half a million young people and at the time I made the point that if a survey were to be conducted we might all be appalled at the lack of knowledge among young people of the existence of such bodies as the National Youth Council. That is a point we should reflect on. We should also consider to what degree that should affect and influence our policy on youth services.
The question of funding has been raised. The Minister should be complimented on being frank and honest in his contribution to the debate. For much too long people have expected Ministers to come to the House and say that a system was adequately funded and needed no more money. The Minister came to the House and said that he had raised the funding from the figure of £4 million, where it stood when he took office, to £10 million today but that he would like a lot more money to do many more things. That was a perfectly sensible, honest thing to say. Yet the Minister was berated and criticised by the Opposition for having said that. We should also ascertain whether the funds at present being allocated are being expended effectively and directed sufficiently to the people and activities on the ground. My preference would be to fund organisations and activities providing services to many young people, be they sporting activities, scouts, girl guides or in other youth club arenas. In addition, I contend we should fund equipment, jerseys, footballs, and other sporting equipment. We should endeavour to reduce the amount of funding expended on bureaucracy. At times one gets the feeling there is too much bureaucracy in the youth services area, that too many resources are gobbled up by that bureaucracy with insufficient being released to activities on the ground. While I may not be totally accurate in that, that is my instinctive feeling, one shared by many people. That is why I said at the outset there is need for a reappraisal of our youth services. We should analyse the present funding to particular bodies, investigate their real membership not just that advanced, the type of activities in which they engage and so on, to ensure such funds are properly allocated to people and activities on the ground.
Deputy Martin is justifying the Bill in what he is saying.
Not particularly, no; I will come to that later.
The Bill before us is not a particularly comprehensive one. It is fairly light in substance, proposing the appointment of an advisory committee. I have no tolerance of advisory committees; that is what they are, simply advisory. There is never any guarantee that, no matter how good their advice, it will ever see the light of day.
That is dependent on the relevant Minister.
Irrespective of that contention, its provision should be more water-tight. As the Minister said, and as anybody who has studied the subject will know, there have been ample documents, policies, advice and so on produced in relation to what we should be doing in this area.
This Bill puts these documents in place.
For example, there is already the National Youth Council whose role, I understood, was to advise Government, Ministers and people in general on youth affairs, to make representations and lobby on issues pertaining to young people and the range of services available to them. One might well pose the question: what would be the relationship between this proposed advisory committee and the National Youth Council?
No statutory role.
We are creating an extra layer of bureaucracy within a system which contains too much already. Sometimes there are too many people advising young people on what they should be doing. We should remember that young people attend school from 9 a.m. until 4.15 p.m., they may be taking grinds from some other teachers and at night they go to clubs and are told something else. I contend we can overdo that advice. I am a great believer in providing money for the requisite facilities for them.
We should also examine the existing infrastructure because there is an incredible amount of duplication. I think it was Deputy O'Shea who referred to the availability of community schools and their facilities to young people within their respective communities. I happen to be a member of our local vocational education committee and this is something I am pursuing actively. While accepting the Minister's contention that that is essentially a matter for the local boards of management, we should acknowledge that the record of such boards of management to date, particularly in my area in Cork, providing facilities for youth clubs and organisations has not been satisfactory. For example, there are excellent community halls in many community schools, excellent playing fields, indoor arenas and so on but what tends to happen is that professional groups, people at work, who can afford the fee being levied, dominate the timetable and schedule of activities in many community halls almost every evening. I know of a number of youth clubs, under-age sporting clubs, who would not have great resources, experience enormous difficulty gaining access to such halls because they would not have the requisite fee to avail of these community facilities. Rather than spend more money, more capital funding, providing individual youth clubs with premises and so on, there is dire need to examine existing facilities and ensure that they are made available to existing youth clubs and sporting organisations, which is not happening at present to the required degree.
While at times we may not want ministerial involvement in local boards, in vocational education committees or whatever, from time to time we have received ministerial circulars on the need to appoint teachers and parents to various vocational education committees and so on. It would be no harm if the Minister were to issue a circular directing vocational education committees to give preferential treatment to youth clubs based in communities where community school facilities exist because that is very important.
The Minister has dealt adequately with the need for a register of youth organisations; this is in existence already in his Department. On the provision of training centres for young people, Deputy Deenihan made us aware of the fact that there is already a broad spread of responsibility over the whole arena of youth affairs. Rather than extend that spectrum of responsibility we should endeavour to contract and centralise it more. I am somewhat wary of travelling down different cul-de-sacs.
The most significant development that has taken place in the overall education of young people has been the Outreach programme. If we can provide additional funding for that programme we should because it has had a tangible impact, particularly in certain areas of Cork, on those young people most at risk, that is, those who have left the normal school scene early. The Outreach programme is beginning to meet their needs. It is a programme that should be developed further, something on which resources should be concentrated.
The Department of Education have made available considerable information to young people at the various youth information centres nationwide. In particular, they have produced a video on emigration, one that embraces the full experience of the emigration process which is very important for young people. If we are to provide information for young people in any specific area, emigration must be at the top of any priority list. If young people take a decision to leave we should at least ensure they are well equipped to do so.
I agree with the sentiments expressed by my colleague, Deputy Wallace, about the outstanding work of Fr. Roch in Cork. The one problem Fr. Roch has encountered is that his activities do not fall under the aegis of any specific Government Department or, indeed, committee. Rather his activities are funded by a variety of institutions, including the Departments of Social Welfare and Education and the vocational education committees. We should examine institutions like those provided by Fr. Roch ascertaining how we can allocate them a more secure annual level of funding thereby ensuring their continuity and a future planning base. Annually Fr. Roch seeks funding from a host of institutions which is not satisfactory. That is a tradition that has grown up from Fr. Roch and the Capuchins and illustrates the original point I was making, that we should allocate precious resources to people on the ground doing something practical to help young people rather than tying them up in further layers of bureaucracy, appointing people simply to sit behind desks. Fr. Roch can do with a lot more money and undertake an awful lot more work to the ultimate betterment of a particular community and city. I support everything Deputy Wallace had to say in that respect.
I might draw the Minister's attention also to Foróige who are concerned at the level of grant aid they have received in recent years compared with other national youth organisations. They contend they are not receiving a fair slice of the cake. In the forthcoming allocation of funds I would ask the Minister to carefully examine their case and ascertain whether he could make more funds available to them. They have been warning us of a serious position in relation to staffing. They are an organisation who have provided a very good service to young people nationwide, particularly in the city of Cork.
To sum up, I contend we need less duplication, less bureaucracy with a greater allocation of funding to activities on the ground.
I wish to share my time with Deputy Bradford.
Is that satisfactory? Agreed.
I welcome the opportunity to speak on this Bill and I compliment Deputy Deenihan on its introduction. In the past I, as a Corkman, might not always have agreed with him but I have no difficulty in sharing his philosophy as expressed in this Bill. If somebody had the capacity to sum up the debate in an unbiased way he would have to indicate that the Bill was an effort to facilitate young people to organise themselves. One must ask what Deputies on the Government benches have to fear from young people who have become organised? Why this feigned praise for the Bill and the refusal to accept it? What about the new thinking which should dominate at least young politicians in their approach, the thinking that would reject the knee-jerk, reactionary and negative posturing we have seen? Why not accept the Bill and use it as a blueprint and amend and improve it later?
In the age profile of this House, the Minister of State would fall into the younger category and many other young Deputies have contributed from the benches opposite. They reacted in a manner that is no longer relevant if we are to advance the cause of youth and society. There is evidence of unease and embarrassment in the content of some speeches from Members opposite who praised the Bill but, almost as a footnote, found some petty excuse to reject it. It is an enabling Bill which would facilitate young people to organise themselves.
It is no wonder that young people should seek to become organised, especially when one looks at the legacy which a failed political and economic system has left them. If they are not facilitated to organise and take over the reins for the future, there is little hope for this country. Even in the absence of the Government's goodwill, there is ample evidence to show that young people are taking hold of their own destiny and are no longer prepared passively to accept Government diktats as gospel. The political and economic system has left our young people with a huge debt around their necks, moneys borrowed for political gain, with no positive benefit to the community. Politicians who cynically express pious platitudes about concern for young peoples' issues but vote in a cavalier manner, disregarding the concerns of young people, will ultimately feel the brunt when young people are successfully organised.
My colleague, Deputy McGrath, referred to the levels of cynicism and apathy. I have seen in my constituency — I am sure this is more broadly based — evidence of young people grasping the nettle, taking the reins of their future in their own hands. On Saturday last I attended a meeting of Young Fine Gael in my constituency. The 50 people in attendance were very trenchant in their views and concerned about their future. They are no longer prepared to take a back seat or let this House decide their future without expressing their views. Young people have a difficult time. They are adversely affected by the unemployment problem. Those lucky enough to have a car face a major problem with motor insurance. It appears that the only solution that can be offered is the emigrant ship. Lest we should benefit from their abilities and education, we refuse to allow those who go abroad to voice their opinions by casting the vote. It is ironic that a Private Members' Bill to allow emigrants a vote was rejected by the Government parties, yet the new Programme for Government cynically proposes to look at the issue. Young people will not fall for that sort of cynical opportunism. The Government will rue the day when young people become organised. They will deliver a telling message to politicians who attempt to score political points on their backs.
The Bill recognises the bureaucracy in the current system. Five Government Departments are responsible for implementing and directing a whole range of youth services. We propose to streamline the system. Deputy Martin lavished praise on Father Roch who is doing such excellent work in Cork, but he went on to mention the difficulty experienced by Father Roch in securing funding because he had to go from one Department to another. A recognition of that bureaucracy is inherent in this Bill and it proposes setting up an advisory body to advise the Minister for Education on how best to co-ordinate an approach to eliminate that bureaucracy. Is there any more telling evidence of that bureaucracy than the lack of suitable detention centres for young offenders? Judge Pringle in Galway recently admonished the Government for their failure to provide suitable accommodation. No Department will take responsibility for it. Young offenders end up in Mountjoy because there is no suitable accommodation elsewhere. That is appalling. That and a whole range of other difficulties are addressed in this Bill. Youth organisations could direct their correspondence to the proposed advisory committee and seek their assistance in resolving problems.
There are clearly defined responsibilities in each Department with regard to juvenile detention.
There is no political will to tackle the problem. In the Minister of State's constituency Judge Pringle indicted him and every politician in the Government party for failing to provide adequate accommodation.
We are providing accommodation at a cost of £3.5 million for 36 people.
What about the Judge Wine case in Dún Laoghaire?
One of the major issues which should be addressed by the advisory committee if established — if they are not established I ask the Minister to take note of the remainder of my contribution — is the lifestyle and education of young people today. Health educators have pointed out that many of the characteristic diseases of the 20th century are due not to causes beyond people's control but to their lifestyle and, therefore, to some extent by the choices they make as individuals or a community. Illnesses due to diet and a lack of exercise are one part of what they have in mind, as are diseases due to environmental pollution. Added to that are diseases due to stress and the mental and psychosomatic diseases which may follow from an inability to find constructive ways of dealing with our feelings and emotions. Added to that are those diseases which arise from abusive substances, for example, tobacco, alcohol and various legal or illegal drugs. Many would say these latter substances are the crucial aspects of health education in the teenage years since it is in those areas that young people may make choices which are likely to affect them and their families for the rest of their lives. Finally added to that, and perhaps most contentiously, are the effects on people of the irresponsible choices made in their teens or early adulthood in regard to sexual involvement. This issue has, of course, taken on a new and even more deadly aspect since the advent of AIDS and the HIV virus.
On the question of AIDS, what is now needed is positive action by the Minister for Health on the availability of condoms. Condoms cannot be presented as the be all and end all solution to that problem; they merely act as a safety net. The Government cannot shirk their responsibility in this regard. All medical evidence points to the fact that while condoms do not offer 100 per cent protection against AIDS, they do limit the chances of catching AIDS. Regularly in this House we hear of increases in the numbers contacting HIV and AIDS but still the Minister and the Government try to pass the buck in relation to the availability of condoms. The previous Minister for Health tried to pass responsibility for condom distribution outlets to the local health boards. Now we hear the new Minister for Health is going to adopt a different approach. I call on the Minister and the Government to make it immediately clear to this House what they intend to do about the easier availability of condoms.
Solvent abuse is another issue of great concern to young people and parents today. The figures on fatalities from solvent abuse in 1988 show that nine deaths took place — six males and three females — and that people as young as ten years and as old as 26 years have died from solvent abuse. Yet the main method of recording deaths from solvent abuse is through newspaper reports. This is a sorry indictment of the Department of Health, the Minister and the Government. The time has come for some immediate action to be taken by the Minister in relation to whole area of solvent abuse. The framework provided in this Bill for setting up an advisory committee on youth work would be one method by which the scourge of solvent abuse could be addressed.
What is needed therefore, in relation to young people and health education is an education for living programme, an education which highlights the need for responsible choices and focuses on the feelings and motivations leading to choices as well as on the effects on oneself and others of the choices that are made. If such an education for living programme is effective its effects should be visible in a change in behaviour among young people.
Greater co-ordination in health education and other youth issues is needed if we, as legislators, are to be serious about our commitment to the youth service. Pious platitudes about the youth of Ireland being its greatest asset ring very hollow indeed when evidence of a non-co-ordinated approach to the youth service is the reality. This Youth Services Bill would go a long way towards providing a very good framework by which youth issues as they arise and affect young people in 1991 can be addressed in a realistic manner. The advisory committee proposed in this Bill would help to make health education a reality for young people.
Health education should begin at an early age. Schools, together with parents, have a responsibility to ensure that children learn to respect and care for their bodies and understand the importance of following a way of life conducive to good health. Primary school programmes should be based upon a positive and holistic healthy lifestyle approach that is child centred and not upon a diseases orientated and negative perspective. Health education and health promotion in second level schools and youth organisations is vital because young people are prone to an increasing range of influences upon their lifestyles, such as negative peer group pressure and the media as well as a growing sense of self-image. It is during adolescent years that young people adopt patterns of behaviour which can threaten their health, such as smoking, drinking alcohol, poor diets, etc. Programmes such as the Drink Awareness for Youth Alcohol Education pack, a joint initiative between the National Youth Council of Ireland, the health promotion unit of the Department of Health and the youth affairs section of the Department of Education, should be commended and encouraged. To date, over 700 facilitators have been trained in the use of this valuable pack.
The necessity of ensuring that there is consistency between what is taught in the classroom or youth club and what is happening in schools or youth clubs needs to be addressed. This means, for instance, that teachers and youth leaders should refrain from smoking in the presence of young people and that canteens should apply strict healthy nutrition guidelines.
Young people do not exist only in schools or youth clubs. Health education and promotion also involve education about environmental issues and the creation of a safe environment in which young people can live. The community also has a role to play in raising young people's sense of responsibility and self-esteem while, in turn, young people can help adults in the community. The family and the Government, in quite different ways, can provide a medium in which young people have the power to make choices which encourage a health promoting lifestyle. We, as legislators, must ensure that health education as promoted among young people in Ireland must contain reference to the importance of relationships in young people's lives. Any programme must address such issues as social skills, self-worth, emotions and friendships at various levels. It must also address the need for people to look after themselves with reference to proper exercise, rest, healthy eating, personal safety, substance use and personal health. It must further address community and environmental issues such as education on care of the environment, community involvement with young people and how young people might get involved in communities in a constructive, educational, and worthwhile manner.
There is a need for a real commitment by the Department of Education towards a reduction in the pupil-teacher ratio. This is a key issue in this debate. It is only by working with small classes that teachers can effectively engage pupils in a proper experimental type health education programme. Thus the whole area of teacher training and in-service training for teachers needs to be examined. If student teachers are not given the opportunity to perceive health education as an important part of their roles as teachers and the part they can play in the development of a health promoting school, then it will be difficult to retrieve that position later.
It is imperative that teachers, youth workers and all those who work directly or indirectly with young people are helped to understand the aims, principles and practices of health education in as broad a perspective as possible. This perspective of health education should provide those involved with young people with a better understanding of the term "health education" to include the physical, social and psychological aspects.
On a practical level, I call on the Government to encourage and support in terms of finance and resources all agencies currently engaged in health promotion in Ireland today. Money spent on health education in a planned and structured way involving the co-ordination of all agencies is an investment in the future health and wellbeing of the country. Thus, as outlined to the House, we need to move away from a very narrow focus on health education towards a more holistic approach which enhances the education of young people, adults and the community in general.
I again stress the need for greater co-ordination in health education and other youth issues which this Bill facilitates in the creation of the advisory committee on youth work. It is only by this approach, and all it involves in terms of adequate resources being provided by the Government, that we can begin to be serious about health education and young people in Ireland today.
Debate adjourned.