Vol. 415 No. 2
6 Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Social Welfare if he will outline (a) the number of applicants for old age contributory pension in the country who fail to qualify for same having less than an average of 20 contributions since 1953 or since entering employment and (b) the cost of awarding limited pension rights to such persons; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
One of the conditions for entitlement of old age contributory pension is that a person must have a yearly average of at least 20 contributions since 5 January 1953 or since he or she entered into insurance, if later. It is not possible to say how many persons have failed to qualify for pension because they have less than this minimum. However, a survey of claims to old age contributory pension in 1989 undertaken by my Department indicated that some 13 per cent of claimants failed to qualify for pension for this reason.
It is not possible to say what the cost would be of awarding limited pension rights to people who failed to qualify for old age contributory pension as this would depend on the conditions under which such awards would be made and the amounts payable.
The contribution conditions for entitlement to pensions are being examined by the National Pensions Board in the context of their final report on the future development of pensions. I expect to receive the board's report shortly. The question of changing the present conditions will be considered in the light of the board's report.
The message, therefore, is that we expect to receive the National Pensions Board's report very shortly and I will consider what changes might be necessary in the light of that report.
I thank the Minister for his reply. However, I thought that more detailed information might have been available at this stage. Will he accept that, for the last year or more, it has been the intention of the Government to introduce a pro rata pension scheme for those who were PAYE workers at an early stage of their working lives and who became self-employed at a later date? Under the 1988 scheme they had again to become insured, they got little credit for that and are sometimes short of maybe three contributions necessary to obtain a pension, despite the fact that they may have had ten or 12 years contributions prior to 1953. Will he take those contributions into account when determining their eligibility?
In the Social Welfare Act, 1988, specific arrangements were made for the payment of pro rata pensions to people who had gaps in their insurance record due to the operation of the remuneration limit which applied up to 1974 and who subsequently failed to qualify for an old age contributory pension. Special reduced rates of pensions were introduced for this group and I will send details to the Deputy. Some 500 people have qualified for these special reduced rates; in the Social Welfare Act, 1991, the question of people with mixed insurance — a mixture of a full rate and a modified one — who failed to qualify for a pension was addressed and regulations to give effect to pro rata pensions came into effect in November 1991. Perhaps this is not sufficiently widely known, there is a lot of information in this regard and it would be better to send it to the Deputy.
It does not cover the situation raised in the question. Will the Minister bring to the attention of the people analysing the report the fact that a number of people are caught in a twilight zone because they are three contributions short? These people have contributions at the full rate which were made prior to 1953. Could the Minister take those payments — or an average — into account in determining some eligibility for those concerned?
The Deputy's intervention is timely because we expect a report from the National Pensions Board in about a month's time. We should await their recommendations and when we have studied them we will take decisions. I will certainly take the views of Deputies into account.
Will the Minister consider removing the anomaly whereby a person with 739 contributions between 1953 and the present date does not qualify for a pension whereas someone who was in employment very briefly qualifies for a full pension? In some cases a person with 40 contributions can have a full pension while someone with 739 has none.
There is a number of general and specific cases in this area. The National Pensions Board are addressing this issue and, as I said, we are awaiting their report. There is also a commitment in the Programme for Economic and Social Progress to discuss the implementation of the board's recommendations, with the main interest in the pension area. This will be done as soon as we get their report.
(Carlow-Kilkenny): If the National Pensions Board do not address the matter perhaps the Minister will in relation to working out the average. I have come across cases of people who started contributing in 1954 or 1955, who dropped out for 20 years, but who had more than the number of contributions needed by the self-employed. It is very unfair as these people may have enough stamps at the end of their career if you compare them to the self-employed. However, their average is distorted because it is reckoned over a period of 35 years.
According to my information, the board were asked to consider all the aspects and to submit a report. I will make it available to Members of the House and indeed I will be grateful for any views Members want to send to me. As I said, there is a commitment in the Programme for Economic and Social Progress to look at the report and to discuss it with the various pension interests to see how we can deal with these anomalies which I have come across in my own constituency. I am well aware of the situation.
