Eamon Gilmore
Ceist:10 Mr. Gilmore asked the Minister for Defence the number of applicants currently on waiting lists for recruitment to the Defence Forces; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna — Questions. Oral Answers. - Defence Forces Recruitment.
Peadar Clohessy
Ceist:11 Mr. Clohessy asked the Minister for Defence if he intends to open a recruiting campaign at some near future date; and if recruitment will be open to the naval, air corps and army commands; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Jim O'Keeffe
Ceist:18 Mr. J. O'Keeffe asked the Minister for Defence the numbers of recruits taken in by the Permanent Defence Forces for each of the years from 1990 to 1992 and to date in 1993; and the number leaving through retirement or otherwise.
Seán Barrett
Ceist:24 Mr. Barrett asked the Minister for Defence if it is intended to offer three year contracts to new recruits to the Defence Forces; and if so, when it is intended to introduce this new scheme.
Richard Bruton
Ceist:29 Mr. R. Bruton asked the Minister for Defence if it is intended to offer three year contracts to new recruits to the Defence Forces; and if so, when it is intended to introduce this new scheme.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 10, 11, 18, 24 and 29 together.
Over the past few years approximately 14,000 persons have applied for enlistment in the Permanent Defence Force. Details of recruitment to, and wastage from, the Permanent Defence Force since 1990 are contained in a tabular statement which I propose to circulate in the Official Report.
As regards recruitment to the Defence Forces, I expect to be in a position to make an announcement in this matter shortly. The conditions of service for new recruits are at present under review, including that relating to the period of engagement. The question of enlisting new recruits for a fixed period is under consideration, the main reason being to allow greater scope for regular intakes of recruits each year. The Defence Forces need a regular injection of "young blood" in order to maintain operational effectiveness. As Deputies will be aware the present age profile is unsatisfactory. Arising from the improvements in pay and conditions in recent years, the numbers of non-commissioned personnel leaving the force voluntarily has dropped substantially — from about 90 per month in 1988 to about 25 per month at present.
The current basic rate of pay for a private 3 star, about six months after recruitment, is £215.52 per week.
In accordance with the conciliation and arbitration scheme for the Permanent Defence Force, arrangements are being made to consult PDFORRA regarding the proposed criteria for enlistment.
The following is the statement:
Recruitment to the Permanent Defence Force
|
Category |
1990 |
1991 |
1992 |
1993 (To 30 Sept.) |
|
Army apprentices |
54 |
54 |
36 |
36 |
|
Air Corps apprentices |
50 |
50 |
30 |
30 |
|
Army cadets |
35 |
30 |
15 |
22 |
|
Air Corps cadets |
7 |
— |
8 |
— |
|
Naval Service cadets |
— |
10 |
6 |
6 |
|
Direct entry technicians |
15 |
19 |
— |
— |
|
Direct entry technical officers (doctors, dentists engineers etc.) |
9 |
9 |
2 |
6 |
|
General service recruits |
648 |
— |
— |
— |
|
Naval Service recruits |
146 |
— |
50 |
— |
|
Totals |
964 |
172 |
147 |
100 |
Wastage of Personnel from the Permanent Defence Force
|
Category |
1990 |
1991 |
1992 |
1993 (To 30 Sept.) |
|
Officers retired either voluntarily or on age or medical grounds |
40 |
36 |
54 |
35 |
|
Non-commissioned officers and privates dis charged from the Permanent Defence Force |
438 |
279 |
243 |
173 |
|
Non-commissioned officers and privates trans ferred to the Reserve Defence Force |
71 |
61 |
24 |
20 |
|
Totals |
549 |
376 |
321 |
228 |
Will the Minister confirm whether the report in the Irish Independent of 13 November is correct, that it is intended to offer three year contracts to new recruits to the Defence Forces? Would the Minister agree that this suggests that as soon as people are trained they would leave? This will cost more in the long term instead of saving money. Will the Minister agree that discipline and the concept of building a career will disappear if recruits know they are only being recruited for three years? I respectfully suggest to the Minister that it would be disastrous if the Government, for short term cost saving purposes, destroyed morale and discipline in the Defence Forces by recruiting soldiers on a contract basis. That would be the last straw.
With the greatest respect, I would not necessarily agree with the Deputy, and I will tell him why. The morale of these young people, who would go through a system where there is decency, discipline and all the other necessary requirements to become part of the Defence Forces, would be greatly improved. It has not yet been decided whether the period should be three or five years. Neither has full consideration been given to the proposal. It is at an embryonic stage at present.
It is referred to in the newspaper report. Does the Minister float ideas by putting them in the newspapers?
The security correspondent for the Irish Independent is very reputable.
Absolutely.
His sources are correct and I am not denying——
There is a comment from the Minister somewhere in the report.
We should hear the Minister out.
As I said, the proposal is at an embryonic stage. The question of enlisting recruits for a fixed period is under consideration. In accordance with the conciliation and arbitration scheme for the Permanent Defence Force, arrangements are being made to consult with PDFORRA in that regard.
After three years these recruits would be highly trained three star private soldiers. Will such soldiers have the option of re-joining the Defence Forces after three years, at which stage they will be fully trained?
The main reason for the proposed fixed term contract is to allow greater scope for regular intakes of recruits each year. The Defence Forces need a regular injection of young blood to maintain its operational effectiveness. Arising from improvements in pay and conditions in the Defence Forces in recent years, the number of non-commissioned personnel leaving voluntarily has decreased substantially from approximately 90 per month in 1988 to approximately 25 per month at present. The proposed fixed term contract would enable a much larger number of young people to avail of valuable training and experience in the Defence Forces. It is proposed that a limited number of personnel would be given the option of extending their service after the initial contract period had expired, presumably on the basis of their performance during the contractual period. This proposal will have to be acceptable to PDFORRA——
What about this House?
Naturally the proposal will come before the House, but it has to go through the consultative process first. I have no problems with bringing the proposal before the House. We are only half way through the process at present.
Question No. 10 in the name of Deputy Eamon Gilmore asks the Minister to indicate the numbers currently on waiting lists for recruitment to the Defence Forces. If the Minister gave that figure in his reply I did not hear it. In view of the reports that the Department is expected to spend approximately £1.7 million on a recruitment campaign, may I ask him to indicate the rationale behind the spending of this amount of money if there are large numbers on waiting lists who have indicated their interest in joining the Defence Forces?
The Department is required to advertise for recruits in the ordinary way. As I said in my initial reply, 14,000 people are on the waiting lists.
Sorry, I missed that point.
In the event of a recruitment campaign going ahead, the Department would place an advertisement in the newspapers, to which, presumably, those 14,000 people would respond.
How much does the Minister think a recruitment campaign will cost? The report in the Irish Independent by the security correspondent, Tom Brady, estimates that the Department will have to spend £1.7 million on a recruitment campaign. Given that it is intended to fill 500 places, this seems to be an extraordinary cost.
A recruitment campaign simpliciter will not cost £1.7 million. I think the cost covers the induction and payment of the personnel during the first part of their training. The cost does not refer solely to the placement of advertisements in the newspapers. The Deputy may be forgiven——
It would not be image building.
I want to bring in Deputy Mulvihill.
Having regard to the number of Naval Service ships tied up in port at present due to the lack of manpower, I ask the Minister to give special consideration to the recruitment of additional personnel to this service. As a former member of the Naval Service who signed a contract for nine years, I know the problems being experienced in this area. Having regard to the large finds of drugs off our coast, it is not appropriate that these ships should be tied up in port due to a lack of manpower.
I accept that the Deputy has a special knowledge of the Naval Service. As in the case of all sectors, recruitment to the Naval Service will be done in an even-handed way. I hope the three arms of the Defence Forces will be accommodated in any recruitment campaign. The lack or otherwise of personnel in the Army, Naval Service and Air Corps will be examined in the context of any recruitment campaign. No special consideration can be given to one arm of the Defence Forces over others but, having regard to the Deputy's question, I will look at the position in regard to the Naval Service.
I want to come to another question and to advise the House that at 3.20 p.m. I shall be proceeding to deal with questions addressed to the Minister in his capacity as Minister for the Marine. I will allow the Deputies brief questions.
These yellow pack recruits——
That is a very diminishing remark.
The same principle is being applied by banks which are exploiting young people. They take them in and then throw them out. If the Minister is talking about providing a social service in terms of giving people training and discipline, will he not agree that it is important to bring the strength of the Defence Forces somewhere near the establishment figure before he starts recruiting personnel for three years? That is the point I was making. Whether or not the Minister likes it, these recruits will be known as yellow pack recruits. At present financial institutions, in an effort to avoid the legislation, are recruiting people, letting them go after a certain period and recruiting them again after six or nine months, thus destroying the career prospects of these young people. The Minister should not condone anything during his term of office which would in any way diminish the respect which exists for members of our Defence Forces, whether they are serving abroad or a home. I am afraid that the recruitment of personnel on a three-year contract basis could destroy the sense of pride and discipline in the Defence Forces, which has been built up over a number of years. It would be a retrograde step if this happened.
Let us proceed by way of questions. We are having quite a lot of statements.
I ask the Minister to proceed very carefully on this issue.
The Deputy is being somewhat unfair to me in that since I took up responsibility for the Department of Defence I have tried to give the Defence Forces a status and create a new awareness of their contribution. His criticism in that regard is a little unjust.
I am not criticising the Minister personally. I am criticising his Department.
I have no problem with it one way or the other. I just wanted to put that on the record of the House.
On the question of the three-year contract, nothing has been finalised in that regard. It is only a proposal but if it becomes a reality, people will know from the advertisement exactly what they are letting themselves in for and they can decide, through the use of their own free will, whether it is acceptable to them. To suggest that they are being given the king's shilling to go into the Defence Forces is quite wrong. If my son wanted to go into the Defence Forces for three or five years, I would be very pleased and proud. He would probably learn a trade that would be of advantage to him when he left the Army and he would return to Civvy Street a very well prepared young man. I think it is a very good idea.
I will hear a final question from Deputy De Rossa after which I shall proceed to deal with questions to the Minister for the Marine.
In relation to the recruitment campaign and the advertising that the Minister proposes to undertake in relation to it, will it be made clear in that advertising that sexual orientation will not be a bar to recruitment? Will he make it clear that homosexuality or indeed homosexual acts——
The Deputy is raising a separate matter.
I am not. I am talking about recruitment to the Army.
I know that, but the matter to which the Deputy refers is a very distinct one and worthy of a separate question.
A Cheann Comhairle, it is very distinctly related to the question of recruitment. I am asking the Minister if he will make it clear that sexual orientation or homosexual activities are not prejudicial to security or the Defence Forces.
This is quite an injection of new matter.
I am already on public record as saying that the question of sexual orientation does not arise as far as the Defence Forces is concerned.