Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 16 Dec 1993

Vol. 437 No. 4

Interpretation (Amendment) Bill, 1993 [ Seanad ]: Committee and Final Stages.

NEW SECTION

Ms McManus

I move amendment No. 1:

In page 2, before section 1, to insert the following new section:

"1.—In every Act of the Oireachtas passed on or after the date of the passing of this Act and in every instrument made wholly or partly under any such Act

(a) every word importing the feminine gender shall, unless the contrary intention appears, be construed as if it also imported the masculine gender,

(b) non gender specific words or terms, including:

(i) `s/he',

(ii) `he or she',

(iii) `his or her',

(iv) `him or her',

shall be construed as importing either or both genders as appropriate.".

As I said on Second Stage, there is a certain lack of clarity in the Bill and a danger that we could end up using gender encompassing terminology rather than gender neutral terminology. This amendment seeks to get over that difficulty. I do not believe that the Bill, as drafted, is specific enough in this regard. I am also seeking in the amendment to tie down the Minister in regard to the commitment he gave. I appreciate that it is not possible in this debate to get an absolute commitment that all future Bills will use the s/he formula where appropriate. Obviously, this formula would be appropriate in the vast majority of cases. The only two areas I can think of which are gender specific are those relating to maternity and birth.

There is always the danger that we will end up doing to men what has been done to women for so long. Women have always resented — it may have been hidden — the use of the word "she", which is technically supposed to cover men, we will be insulting men and will not solve the imbalance which exists; rather we may end up creating a new imbalance.

Ms Keogh

I am anxious to support Deputy McManus' amendment and I would like the Minister to say how appropriate it is — it seems to carry through the intent to which he referred. It is very important when debating legislation like this — I have been conditioned to some extent by Deputy Power's remarks in this regard — to make the point that we are talking about equality. We are not talking about reversing a situation so that men are discriminated against. That is not the point at issue. We are talking about ensuring true equality in legislation.

With regard to language, we can laugh about the ridiculous elements in the debate on gender equality, for example, whether we should call a manhole cover a personhole cover etc. We have to send out the right signal to the public about this issue. If appropriate, I should like the Minister to include in the legislation the s/he formula proposed by Deputy McManus in her amendment. This formula makes a specific point and should be included in the legislation if possible.

Minister for Equality and Law Reform (Mr. Taylor)

There is a diversity of opinion as to the advisability of using the s/he formula. This is not a standard pronoun and it presents difficulties in a number of respects. There is a diversity of views as to the advisability of going down that road. The amendment is not necessary as the Bill, in conjunction with the Government decision that so far as possible Bills are to be drafted in gender neutral language, will cover what we want to achieve. In any event, the thrust of the amendment would be autologous in effect. While broadly speaking I sympathise with the thrust of the amendment which proposes that: "...non-gender specific words or terms, including he or she, shall be construed as importing either or both genders as appropriate" obviously one does not need to say this in a Bill: it is obvious that a non-gender specific word imports both genders.

The Deputy's amendment is not necessary as the Bill covers the situation that legislation which primarily refers to women will be drafted in the feminine gender and all legislation will be drafted on a gender neutral basis in accordance with the Government decision. For those reasons the amendment would not be appropriate and I regret I cannot accept it.

Ms McManus

The Minister pointed out the precise difficulty about which I am concerned when he said that Bills that deal primarily with women will be drafted in the feminine gender. That is not the point I am making. I do not think Deputy Power should accept this position. I am surprised he is being so mute on this issue. Why should men, even if they are the tiny minority affected by a Bill, not have the right to be described as men? I accept that I may be overstating the case in my amendment but I certainly did not want to let the opportunity pass without stating it. It is better to be specific, which is what we are all about, rather than vague. I regret that the Minister is not accepting my amendment if for no other reason than I would have been intrigued to see the Minister for Arts, Culture and the Gaeltacht's correct Irish translation of the term "s/he".

Mr. Taylor

That was part of the problem.

Ms McManus

It would have been a challenge which I am sure he would have been up to.

Mr. Shatter

He would have done it with poetic distinction.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

As it is now 12 noon I am required to put the following question in accordance with an order of the Dáil of this day: "That the sections undisposed of and the Title are hereby agreed to in Committee and the Bill is accordingly reported to the House without amendment; that Fourth Stage is hereby completed and that the Bill is hereby passed".

Question put and agreed to.