Phil Hogan
Ceist:6 Mr. Hogan asked the Minister for Enterprise and Employment his views on moves in Europe to substantially cut working hours; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Working Hours.
Seymour Crawford
Ceist:17 Mr. Crawford asked the Minister for Enterprise and Employment whether he has assessed the scope for early retirement schemes; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Ivan Yates
Ceist:20 Mr. Yates asked the Minister for Enterprise and Employment the reason little progress has been made in developing work sharing initiatives in Ireland; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Nora Owen
Ceist:56 Mrs. Owen asked the Minister for Enterprise and Employment the reason little progress has been made in developing work sharing initiatives in Ireland; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
P. J. Sheehan
Ceist:61 Mr. Sheehan asked the Minister for Enterprise and Employment his views on moves in Europe to substantially cut working hours; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Thomas P. Broughan
Ceist:79 Mr. Broughan asked the Minister for Enterprise and Employment if he will introduce a national job sharing scheme to reduce the working week for four to five people in a group, so as to create an extra job; if so, when it will be introduced; the number of jobs that he would envisage being created; and the way in which the employees who reduce their hours will be compensated.
Seán Barrett
Ceist:85 Mr. Barrett asked the Minister for Enterprise and Employment whether he has assessed the scope for early retirement schemes; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Thomas P. Broughan
Ceist:111 Mr. Broughan asked the Minister for Enterprise and Employment when he intends to introduce a national work sharing plan; and the type of incentives, if any, he considers should be offered to employers to implement such a plan.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 6, 17, 20, 56, 61, 79, 85 and 111 together.
As these questions indicate, work sharing may take many different forms. These include job sharing, reductions in working time, reductions in overtime, career breaks and early retirement. The basic idea involved in work sharing is the redistribution of existing work among a greater number of persons. As such, it has a certain appeal, especially for countries with high unemployment.
However, the subject is complex and for that reason I, as Minister for Labour Affairs, commissioned a comprehensive expert study into the subject which is being undertaken by the ESRI, in conjunction with UCD Graduate School of Business. This study is considering the main forms of work-sharing and their contribution towards generating additional employment.
Phase one of the study has been completed and the second and final phase will be completed by June of this year. That phase will include an attitude survey in 500 work-places in the private and public sector. The results of that survey, as well as providing a valuable input into policy-making, will also help us to identify the reasons relatively little progress has been made in developing work sharing initiatives here. Concerns in relation to cost competitiveness and income reduction are, no doubt, likely to form part of the explanation. The study is also examining the experience of a number of other countries, such as Belgium, France and the Netherlands, which have had recourse to a variety of work sharing measures for a number years.
The Government is committed under the Programme for a Partnership Government to the introduction of a national voluntary scheme of work sharing. Discussions with both IBEC and ICTU have been initiated. We hope the voluntary scheme will be implemented by January 1995.
Will the Minister not agree that the Government's record on work sharing in the public service is not a great headline in that only 5 per cent of positions are available on a work sharing basis compared with 30 per cent in the Netherlands? Will she not agree also that the Government should develop a solidarity contract similar to that developed in other European countries, whereby instead of the tendency to opt for redundancies other options could be considered such as work sharing or other schemes and that the tax regime should be sympathetic to those arrangements in cases of redundancy or threatened redundancies?
I agree there is a greater level of work sharing in other countries. I have been involved in phase one and phase two of the study. The issue is more complex than it appears. Many people would like to job share and believe it is a good idea but when one scratches the surface one realises it is a very complex matter. They would like to job share but would not like a reduction in income. People have different views on job sharing. There is a greater take up in job sharing in other European countries where there was a more open approach to it. There are many aspects to job sharing in those countries including career breaks and overtime.
I accept the Deputy's point on tax breaks. I hope to introduce the protection of employment Bill in the summer to encourage people to move away from the idea that there is only one solution to business problems, that of shedding jobs. That should be the last resort. We hope to have the voluntary scheme in place in the public and private sectors by January 1995.
Does the Minister not accept that putting in place proper programmes of work sharing is a key consideration to keep married women, particularly those in the child rearing years, in the workforce and that work sharing programmes should proceed particularly in the areas of education and health? Teachers and nurses would be pleased to take up job sharing posts with the conditions now on offer for a number of years and to return to full-time employment or retain the option of part-time work when their domestic situation changes. If we are serious about increasing the number of women in the workforce we must realise the urgency of putting those programmes in place.
I shared a platform with the Deputy at the SIPTU nursing conference on Tuesday night. Many people other than those accepted for job sharing posts in hospitals and health boards are interested in job sharing. That arrangement suits many women who wish to keep one foot in the labour market and the other in the home. I would like to see women and men interested in work sharing. Even though the arrangement may suit women I would not like them to be the only participants in work sharing schemes. Wider issues of parenting and the domestic arrangements between partners are involved. From experience, it is mostly women who take the opportunity of work sharing, but I would caution against placing too much emphasis on women in this context. It is not my wish that women alone take part in these working arrangements; men must also be involved. We must have regard to the social legislation and benefits accruing from such work and ensure it does not become a marginalised activity.
Is the Minister aware that Members of the Oireachtas make provision for job-sharing? I took the opportunity of introducing job sharing in my office four or five years ago and I find it very satisfactory. In the light of experience of a body such as CARE, will the new arrangements eliminate the resistence to taking up the scheme? The current scheme is taken up to a very limited degree. Does the problem exist with the employee or the employer, or is there a problem on both sides?
I would not say there is a problem. My intention was to get greater approval for my ideas on the matter than was apparent among the major constituent bodies. Many matters remain to be teased out in terms of tax and financial arrangements. We spoke informally about the arrangements that have been put in place. Lest people get the wrong impression, Deputy Flaherty does not job share with another Member of the House as those arrangements do not apply here. The Deputy was referring to arrangements with her staff.
Will the Minister acknowledge that putting in place job sharing programmes may present difficulties for employers — for example, difficulties may be created for hospital managements? In the light of the overwhelming demand, particularly from nurses, for job sharing would the Minister recommend to her colleague, the Minister for Health, that he explore the question of giving assistance and advice to hospital managers and matrons to enable them provide for job sharing for nurses on a greater scale than is the case at present?
I would be glad to speak to the Minister, Deputy Howlin, on the matter. I hope that when the details of the scheme are announced there will be greater awareness of it among the workforce and that, therefore, greater opportunities will be created by management for it. Employers are wary of this whole idea and there are difficulties with the arrangements already in place. At present 11 per cent of the workforce is engaged in work sharing. There are challenges to be met in the arrangements currently in place, but they can be overcome. I would encourage employers to provide for job sharing.
Will the Minister give specific examples of the initiative she plans to take? For example, is she planning to convert the 2,000 jobs in the Government service that are worked in overtime into job opportunities on a work share basis? Has she plans to make available to people in the later years of their working life the opportunity to reduce their working hours without affecting their pension entitlements? There are 95,000 people between the ages of 55 and 65 who might be attracted to such a package. Are there examples of such initiatives in the planning stage?
The issue to which the Deputy refers relates not so much to early retirement but a lessening of work hours. The range of questions put down on this matter show the ideas people have in job sharing. I do not have full details on the matter, but questions such as a lessening of activity would be involved. I hope there will be a high take up of the scheme which is voluntary as it would have the effect of making available more jobs.
Will the Minister accept that while the scheme is voluntary, responsibility lies with her to ensure that job sharing is an attractive option? The Minister outlined the position with nurses. Would she accept that there is a strong argument to facilitate job sharing among doctors? If we do not make it possible for this sector to job share the country will continue to spend large amounts of money training to high professional standards doctors who will then go to countries such as America that can well afford to pay for their own training? By not being able to keep those skills here it is costing us money. Job sharing under the National Health Service in England has been of benefit not only to those working in the system but to those receiving the service.
I take the point made by the Deputy. Part of the work involves compiling evidence and data from other countries and examining the reasons for their success. I mentioned nursing because there are statistics on that profession and it relates to Deputy Quill's question, but no sector will be excluded from the scheme.
Apart from TDs.
Yes, and the Ceann Comhairle.
He already takes part in job sharing.
The Minister quoted a person who is in favour of job sharing but does not welcome the reduction in wages. I wonder if that person is a TD or an MEP who holds a dual or triple mandate. Perhaps this is an area that should be considered in line with the recommendations on job sharing.
The scheme is a voluntary one. Politicians are subject to scrutiny sometimes at the end of each year but certainly at the end of the Dáil term, and there is no security of tenure in our jobs.