Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 19 May 1994

Vol. 442 No. 10

Adjournment Debate. - Funding of National Theatre Company.

Ms F. Fitzgerald

Thank you, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle, for giving me the opportunity to raise the issue of the crisis faced by the National Theatre and its future funding and I thank the Minister for coming in to reply. I raise the position of the Abbey Theatre and its future funding because I am concerned that this flagship national institution, central to the revival of our culture, which has put Irish playwrights on the world map appears, once again, to be in crisis. All its staff are on protective notice. There is a deteriorating financial situation, the Abbey is in a difficult position and has to adapt to a changed artistic and economic environment. The National Theatre, which has been a centre of excellence with the highest possible standards, a driving agent for change in our society with O'Casey's plays, a platform of talent for Shaw and others aimed at getting and keeping a populace audience, not only an élite one, is facing a major challenge.

Will the Minister state his proposals for the Abbey? There appears to be confusion, antagonism and difficult discussions between the Arts Council and the Abbey Theatre and I am concerned about the consequences. In November 1993 I raised with the Minister the future funding of the Abbey Theatre, it appeared at that time he was planning to change the funding arrangements. I asked him also where the responsibility for funding and management would lie, the implications for the Arts Council and to make a statement on the matter. Then, eight months ago, the Minister said he was considering whether it would be appropriate to move the responsibility for funding the Abbey Theatre from the Arts Council, where it has been since 1976, back to his Department. Has the Minister made a decision on that, and has he arrived at an agreement with the Abbey and the Arts Council? He also said that under that arrangement he would expect the Arts Council to remain involved in the ongoing appraisal of the Abbey's future funding needs. How does the Minister see that happening? At the moment, there seems to be a real problem. The Abbey is trying to serve two masters, the Minister, as Minister for Arts, Culture and the Gaeltacht, and the Arts Council. Uncertainty reigns. There is a sense in which the funding is with the Arts Council but is not with the Arts Council. This whole saga must be deeply unsettling to other national institutions. The Minister appears to have allowed a deeply uncertain situation to develop which is undermining the Arts Council and not helping the Abbey.

I have already expressed concern about bringing the Abbey Theatre into a more direct relationship with the Department. It raises the prospect of probably one of the most profound changes in the funding of the arts for almost 20 years. I have a number of questions and look forward to the Minister's reply to them.

What is the Minister's assessment of the problems facing the theatre at the moment? What are the solutions and what is the correct method of funding the Abbey? Does the Minister, for example, approve of the yardstick being used by the Arts Council to determine the grant to the Abbey, that is, that it should attempt to get between 70 and 75 per cent attendance? Does the Minister believe that is a reasonable requirement? These are serious questions as the Abbey gets more money than all other theatre activities in the country. I would immediately add, however, that, like the Minister, I share the view of the importance of a National Theatre reaching the highest standards. That, of course, costs money.

Is the Minister happy with the structures in place at the Abbey or, arising out of the suggested change in the funding, has he decided that this is the only issue to be tackled? In tackling that, is he saying there is nothing wrong with any of the other structures within the Abbey at present? I note that Mr. Patrick Mason, the artistic director of the National Theatre, said when he took over the post in January that the troubled times of the theatre were now fortunately lodged in the past. This does not appear to be the case. However, I congratulate him and others on the efforts they are clearly making to get the finances into shape and begin to move ahead in the way in which he wishes. This would be greatly helped if the Minister would clarify his own intentions in the matter. I am concerned because confusion reigns about the Minister's future plans for the funding of this theatre and it is a deeply unsettling time for the Abbey. It is time we had precision and less aspirational talk about hypothetical possibilities. It is important that confidence be restored on this issue, both in the Arts Council and in the Abbey Theatre.

Minister for Arts, Culture and the Gaeltacht (Mr. M. Higgins)

Táim an buíocht don Teachta as ucht an ábhair seo a thabhairt ós ár gcómhair tráthnóna. The discussions taking place in the National Theatre are a matter for the National Theatre Company, the management and the unions and this is an area in which I have no function. I am sure the Deputy, like me, would want to behave in such a way as would only assist the resolution of those trade union and management difficulties.

Let me take up the points raised by the Deputy. She is, perhaps more than anybody, aware that the proposals which I circulated are for the future funding of the Abbey. To suggest that any proposals of mine are responsible for present uncertainty or uncertainty based on past performance is singularly inaccurate.

Mrs. Owen

The buck stops with the Minister.

Mr. M. Higgins

If Deputy Owen will allow me, I will be delighted to answer her colleague's questions. As to the future funding of the Abbey Theatre, I have already indicated to the House on a number of occasions that the Abbey, as Ireland's National Theatre, is the primary cultural agency for the promotion of theatre and the work of Irish playwrights. Since 1976 the Abbey has been funded by An Comhairle Ealaíon, the Arts Council. Prior to this, the theatre was funded directly by the State through the Vote of the Minister for Finance.

However, having regard to the importance of the Abbey and the status of national cultural institutions, I indicated on 4 November 1993, in reply to a parliamentary question, that I was considering whether it would be more appropriate in current circumstances to fund the theatre directly through my Department's Vote in the same way as other national institutions such as the National Concert Hall or the Irish Museum of Modern Art. Under such an arrangement I would expect An Chomhairle Ealaíon to remain involved in the ongoing appraisal of the Abbey's funding needs and to have new functions in the appraisal of the funding needs of the National Concert Hall and the Irish Museum of Modern Art. The intention would be that An Comhairle Ealaíon would make representations to me on the funding requirements of these three cultural institutions, after which I would come to a decision on the matter.

Since replying to the parliamentary question on 4 November 1993 I have had consultations with the chairpersons and directors of An Comhairle Ealaíon, the National Concert Hall, the Irish Museum of Modern Art and the Abbey Theatre. The sole intention behind my proposals was to establish new coherent and transparent structures which would stand the test of time and facilitate the securing of additional resources for all four institutions. These proposals were explained at the meeting which the directors and chairpersons attended.

I am endeavouring to put new structures in place which will underline the principle of autonomy with responsibility by ensuring transparency and an appropriate degree of accountability in these new structures. My proposals were not designed to introduce structures which would be overburdening or over-bureaucratic. They represented a genuine attempt on my part to address the needs of these institutions more effectively. However, in the consultations with all four institutions I made it clear to them that if the structures I was proposing were not, in their opinion, the optimum structures for future progress, I would welcome and expect concrete suggestions from them on what alternative proposals they would recommend to bring about my stated objectives for these institutions.

The position on the future funding of the Abbey is as I have outlined, and I am awaiting the detailed view of An Comhairle Ealaíon, the National Concert Hall, the Irish Museum of Modern Art and the Abbey. I expect to obtain these views in the near future and I hope to be in a position to make a final decision on this subject soon afterwards. There will be no undue delay.

I think I have answered most of the points raised by Deputy Fitzgerald. I always appreciate and acknowledge her concern in matters relating to the arts in general and the Abbey Theatre in particular. I suggest, however, that what is important at this stage is that the procedures over which we have no direct control, which are ones of an industrial relations kind, can come to a happy resolution but also that plans for the future will be based on consultation and meet the needs of this most important cultural institution. I have appreciated the work that has been put in so far in response to the invitations I made for consultation in this matter.