Ben Briscoe
Ceist:7 Mr. Briscoe asked the Minister for Justice the plans, if any, she has to introduce measures with a view to combating juvenile crime; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [13755/95]
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Juvenile Crime.
Juvenile crime, which refers to those who are under 18 years of age, is a matter deserving of the highest priority and a number of measures are being taken to specifically deal with the problem. These measures reflect the complexity of the problem and represent a broad-based strategy designed to deal with the issue and the underlying causes.
Firstly, the Government's renewal programme includes a commitment to introduce a Bill which will streamline the process of early intervention regarding juveniles who offend, examine Garda and court procedures in relation to them, provide for the involvement of their parents and deal with the need for suitable custodial facilities for those who require that type of intervention. To that end, juvenile justice legislation is being prepared in my Department which will replace the remaining provisions of the Children Act, 1908 with a comprehensive statute which will be responsive to modern conditions. Great progress has been made between the three relevant Departments involved, Justice, Education and Health, under the guidance of Minister of State, Deputy Currie, and preparation of the legislation is advancing because of this progress.
Secondly, the Garda national juvenile office is responsible for all matters relating to juveniles. The office is responsible for the overall administration of the Garda juvenile diversion programme; development and implementation of the Garda schools' programme; supervision and support for Garda juvenile liaison officers, of whom there are in excess of 80 in the country; on-going liaison and contact with all statutory and non-statutory bodies involved in the area of juveniles.
As regards the Garda juvenile diversion programme, juvenile offenders who meet certain conditions may be dealt with under the scheme as an alternative to prosecution. The programme provides for the cautioning of juvenile offenders under 18 years of age, subject to certain conditions, as an alternative to court proceedings. The main aim of the programme is crime prevention through the education of young people as to their responsibilities both to themselves and to society in general and through the rehabilitation of those who commit crimes at a young age, by allowing them to acknowledge that their behaviour was wrong and assisting them to change their attitudes so that they can develop into mature and responsible adults.
There are Garda juvenile liaison officers appointed in every Garda division in the country and these members are specifically selected for this work. They undergo relevant training and operate in a full-time capacity. Juvenile liaison officers are involved in all aspects of youth work, both locally and in some cases nationally, through their involvement with youth clubs and organisations, by attending meetings and seminars and through visits to schools. This involvement is aimed towards a greater appreciation of the Garda role in society and the importance of law observance.
Juvenile offenders accepted into the programme may be dealt with by way of formal or informal caution and may be placed under the supervision of a juvenile liaison officer for a specified period. The programme is under constant review and assessment in all respects, including resources, staffing and administrative procedures. Adjustments within the programme take place whenever and wherever appropriate.
One of the aims of the Garda Síochána schools programme, which is now operating in every Garda division is to prevent crime. The Garda Síochána have recently developed a resource package for members making presentations in relation to drugs. Thirdly, there are a number of community based inter-agency projects funded by the Department of Justice. These projects specifically target young people at risk and are aimed at crime prevention. Projects are in operation in Ronanstown (GRAFT), Tallaght (KEY), Limerick (Moyross) and Cork (Knocknaheeney and Holyhill). A new project has recently been approved for Blanchardstown (WEB) and other proposed projects are receiving consideration.
Finally, the probation and welfare service of my Department places considerable importance on diverting juvenile offenders referred by the courts into a variety of projects in the community with an educational and social skills focus. One such project, currently under way in Cork, is designed to reduce the level of car crime. The objective here is to get young persons involved in car crime to understand the seriousness of their behaviour by offering education and basic training in car maintenance, rules of the road and the consequences of car stealing, in particular, for victims and their families.
A variety of projects developed in Dublin, Cork, Limerick and Galway are kept under review and new interventions will be developed where possible.
The Minister was given a lengthy reply. Is she aware that of all the young people who get into trouble only about 2 per cent could be described as sociopaths or psychopaths, those whom no one can do anything about? Will the Minister zero in on boys and girls aged under 15 years? Is she aware that there are no secure detention centres for girls under 15 years of age and that the costs involved for a health board looking after such a girl, who may need round the clock surveillance, can amount to £100,000? That is the figure I was given by the Eastern Health Board some time ago in the case of an uncontrollable young girl who kept burning down every place she was in. Will the Minister reconsider opening an under 15 secure detention centre, under the aegis of the Department of Justice, for sociopaths and psychopaths? Is she aware that the Department of Education cannot deal with the type of young person who is totally out of control? Will she zero in on this?
I am not concerned about the other 98 per cent of youngsters with whom one can deal. Rather I am concerned about the 1.5 to 2 per cent of the sociopaths, or psychopaths on whom the Minister should concentrate and I promise her she will discover a large drop in current crime levels.
I fully understand and empathise with Deputy Briscoe's concerns raised repeatedly in the House. I do not believe the treatment of children as young as 15 should include their becoming involved in the criminal justice system which is why this State always considered that their treatment, offenders or non-offenders, rather is a matter for the Departments of Health and Education. If the Deputy tables a question to the Minister for Education he will receive a reply.
I might inform the House of what has been happening to the young people about whom Deputy Briscoe speaks, to whom judges refer frequently and who have no secure place of accommodation. I am referring to those children deemed to be out of control and/or unruly. The Minister of State, Deputy Currie, announced recently that a range of additional facilities would be developed to cater for children in conflict with the law or in need of care. These will include the development of an additional 28 to 30 places for boys in the older, more serious category and the provision of four separate additional reformatory school places, including three secure places, for seriously disruptive girls, a continuous call on the part of many judges. In addition to extra provision for young offenders, the Minister of State. Deputy Currie, also announced that he would arrange for the establishment by health boards of a number of special child care facilities for children found to be out of control, thus constituting a multi-faceted approach. Indeed, the fact that his ministerial remit extends across the Departments of Health, Education and Justice means he is ideally placed to ascertain where those Departments and their differing roles should be dovetailed. Under his guidance, and that of the interdepartmental committee, great progress has been made on the preparation of the juvenile justice Bill. Many of the problems raised consistently by Deputy Briscoe will be solved when we have up to date legislation on our Statute Book to deal with the problems encountered by young people, especially when one bears in mind that some of the legislation with which we have been dealing dates back to 1908 when circumstances were very different. With the advent of that Bill Deputy Briscoe can be assured that we will witness improvements.
Did the Minister say there will be three new accommodation places for girls?
Yes, three secure places. There are not that many young people coming through our courts who are so unruly they cannot be accommodated in Trinity House, Oberstown House or some other existing facility.
Notwithstanding the long treatise the Minister read on the role and success of the juvenile liaison officers scheme — I highly commend it and I am glad to note the Minister is still giving it the emphasis it deserves — is it not strange, though she referred belatedly to the forthcoming juvenile justice Bill promised by her predecessor——
It formed part of my original reply.
——she placed no emphasis on her perception of the role or responsibility of parents which I have been exploring at public and private meetings for many years? Has the Minister and/or her officials had an opportunity to study the reports of the committee on crime presented to her Department? That committee engaged in much research and focused on this very issue. Does she accept that to target a multi-faceted programme to address juvenile, disorientation and/or anti-social behaviour, while neglecting to focus on the role parents can play in addressing this serious, growing problem is remiss of her? Will the Minister give views on that?
Perhaps the little bit of contretemps at the beginning of my reply distracted Deputy Liam Fitzgerald somewhat, in which case I must reiterate that I did answer the question fully. For example, I said that the “commitment to introduce a Bill which will streamline the process of early intervention” in relation to juveniles who offend, examine Garda and court procedures in relation to them, provide for the involvement of their parents and deal with the need for suitable custodial facilities for those who require that type of intervention comprise some of the main headings of the appropriate Bill and will cover all such elements. Indeed, the Bill is long overdue which is why difficulties are being encountered within the system needing to be addressed urgently, one of which is parental involvement.
Will the Minister give us the benefit of her wisdom on what she perceives to be the merits of a greater focus on parental responsibility?
The relevant Bill is in course of preparation and the various studies and Deputy Fitzgerald's references to experiences in other countries are being examined within its ambit. It is not for me to anticipate what might be included in it before it is approved by Cabinet.
Given that we have the highest rate of juvenile offenders within the member states of the Council of Europe is the Minister taking any action to accommodate such offenders being aware that Wheatfield Prison was established specifically for them but which, because of overcrowding, can no longer house them as orignally intended? With regard to the accommodation of juvenile offenders in St. Patrick's Institution, how can the Minister justify 2,227 committals of juveniles to that institution in 1993, it having a capacity for 122 only at any given time? Would she agree that that institution is being presented with thousands of such offenders, committed by the courts, leading to a revolving door syndrome of juvenile offenders being released into the community there being no other place for them within the State?
I shall be happy to reply to many of those questions when we reach the question tabled by Deputy O'Donnell on St. Patrick's Institution but Deputy Briscoe's question refers to crime by people under 18 years of age, the responsibility for whom falls within the remit of the Departments of Health and Education rather than that institution.
The young people committed to St. Patrick's Institution and Wheatfield, of whom there are many, are aged between 18 and 21 years, thus comprising a separate segment of our prison population.
In the context of the juvenile justice Bill, is it the intention of the Minister and her Department to keep children out of places of detention in so far as possible, perhaps providing day centres for their accommodation? Is it her intention, that of her Department and the Government, to introduce curfew orders in respect of such juvenile offenders? Is it the intention that parents be required to sign bonds testifying that their children will be of good behaviour?
It should be the objective of any humane society to keep very young children out of places of detention. That is why my reply, while somewhat lengthy, was necessary to inform Members on how we deal at present with juveniles, with the Garda juvenile diversion programme and juvenile liaison officers which will be included in the relevant Bill, thus encompassing all methods we can devise, based on our experiences and those elsewhere, to keep young people out of such places of detention. The issues such a parental control, curfew orders and the like are being examined at present by the Interdepartmental Committee on Education, Health and Justice so that the best possible legislative provision, incorporating the best, most recent, knowledge and experience available to us, can be included in what will be the first major review of that legislation since 1908.
The Minister referred earlier to the use of the juvenile diversion programme as an alternative to prosecution. Is the Minister happy that when the juvenile diversion programme option is chosen by the DPP there is sufficient follow-up supervision of those involved when they are still at large in the community? Is the Minister aware that some of the young people who offend would have made admissions of serious sexual offences and that this alternative to prosecution is slack? Complaints have been made to me by the parents of children abused by offenders who were then put on diversion programmes rather than prosecuted, that it was a loose arrangement and that these people were not adequately supervised. They had only to report infrequently to a social worker or a juvenile liaison officer.
Will the Minister agree that where the juvenile diversion programme is used as an alternative to prosecution of serious sexual offences by young people it will have to be tight to reassure the public that reoffending will not occur while the person is in the so-called care of the juvenile diversion programme?
I agree the juvenile diversion scheme should be used as effectively and tightly as possible and I am satisfied it is. I know the case to which the Deputy alluded as she has been in contact with my office about it. The decision as to who will go on that scheme is taken very carefully. It is not a means of avoiding paying the price for an awful offence; it is considered if the person is of a young age and it is felt they would benefit from the scheme rather than being detained. It is important that those who will be part of the juvenile liaision programme are carefully selected and I am assured they are.
Will the Minister target the small 1.5 to 2 per cent of young people with the interdepartmental committee? This is an opportunity for the Minister to take solid action. That small percentage translates into not more than 120 young people in the country. If the Minister can tackle that hard core of ringleaders she will make a large impact on crime. Most of the children can be dealt with and respond to proper treatmenat and care. However, there are also out of control young people whose parents plead with the State to take action. If the Minister could focus on that small number it would be the key to the solution.
I recognise the Deputy's concern. They are a section of the juvenile offenders who are being carefully targeted in the preparation of this legislation, not only as to how they would be treated but also as to how detention facilities might be provided.