Vol. 478 No. 7
12 Miss Harney asked the Minister for Health his views on the difficulties in relation to retired nursing staff pensions in view of the nurses' pay review; the proposals, if any, he has to alleviate the concerns of retired nurses in this regard; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
(Limerick East): I refer the Deputy to previous replies I have given on this matter, the most recent being on Thursday, 17 April last. It is the Government's intention that retired nurses and other public servants will benefit from the local bargaining clause of the PCW pay agreement.
The pay proposals developed to date involve an element of restructuring, as provided for under the local bargaining clause of the PCW pay agreement.This applies to nurses and many other groups such as civil servants, clerical and administrative grades in the health boards and local authorities, teachers, gardaí etc. who have concluded or are concluding agreements under the restructuring option of the PCW.
Generally speaking, the agreements emerging do not provide for uniform increases across groups and in many cases even within grades. This complicates the position regarding adjustments to pensions and this question will now have to be considered in respect of all affected groups across the public service. Consideration is being given by my colleague, the Minister for Finance, to the implications of the restructuring deals for existing pensioners and pensions increase policy across the public service. Discussions are ongoing between the Department of Finance and the Public Services Committee of ICTU about this matter.When this general policy issue has been resolved my Department will be in a position to clarify the adjustments to be made to pensions of retired health service staff, including nurses.
I am glad this matter is receiving attention. This group of retired nurses are concerned about safeguarding their pensions but I accept the Minister's statement that the restructuring deals have more widespread implications. Did this matter arise during the Partnership 2000 negotiations, was it anticipated and has the Minister met this group of retired nurses to discuss his policy in this area?
(Limerick East): On the latter question, like the nurses, the retired nurses are represented by five unions. At the SIPTU conference in Westport I met a delegation of retired nurses represented by SIPTU. I met a similar delegation at the Psychiatric Nurses' Association conference in Ennis. The INO conference will be held in Athlone tomorrow and while I have not arranged to meet a delegation I would be surprised if they were not there.
I doubt if the matter was discussed in the context of Partnership 2000 as there are ongoing arrangements between the Department of Finance, other Departments and the Irish Congress of Trade Unions on this issue. The difficulty is not a reluctance by the Departments of Health or Finance to agree in principle that an increase in pensions should ensue from the increased pay given to nurses following the Labour Court negotiations.The difficulty arises because under phase three of the Programme for Competitiveness and Work people can get a flat rate increase of 3 per cent, which can be negotiated upwards in exchange for productivity. Different grades and people got different increases. What is being worked out between the Department of Finance and the Public Services Committee of ICTU is the detail of how it will be applied. There is no question but that there will be an increase in pensions; the matter at issue is the amount for the relevant level of service.
The time for questions is almost exhausted and there are two Deputies offering. I suggest that the Deputies put their questions and the Minister replies to them together.
Do the Labour Court recommendations on nurses' pay apply to retired nurses?
I accept that the cost across the entire public service will be considerable. Retired nurses believe they will not benefit from the recent special pay award to nurses. The Minister's initial answer was promising from the point of view of the retired nurses, but can he indicate the cost to the Exchequer if they were also to benefit from the special pay increase recently awarded to nurses?
(Limerick East): The Labour Court recommendations on nurses' pay did not include a specific recommendation which was applicable to the pensions of retired nurses. However, nothing would hinge on this as there are general agreements of an historic nature under which general pay round increases are passed on to pensions. The difficulty here arises from the fact that this was negotiated under phase three of the PCW. The details of what will be added on are being worked out by the Department of Finance and the Public Services Committee of ICTU.
On the question raised by Deputy Deasy, it is not the case that retired nurses will not benefit, they will benefit. The details are being worked out at present.
Written Answers follow Adjournment Debate.
