Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 9 Jul 1997

Vol. 480 No. 2

Criminal Justice (Drug Trafficking) Act, 1996: Motion.

Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform (Mr. O'Donoghue)

I move:

That Dáil Éireann resolves that sections 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 of the Criminal Justice (Drug Trafficking) Act, 1996 (No. 29 of 1996), shall continue in operation for the period ending on the 31st day of December, 1998.

This afternoon is somewhat historic. I would not presume it to be so simply because it is my first opportunity to address the House as a member of the Government, but it is worth noting this is the first time the House has been addressed by a Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. It is a wide and important brief and I am honoured to have been given responsibility for it.

It is correct that at the first opportunity I should assure the House — lest there be any doubt on this score — that in the creation of the new Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform there is no question of any lesser priority being given to matters which were the responsibility of the Department of Equality and Law Reform. I pay tribute to the work done by the staff of that Department in the past few years. The combined resources and expertise of the former Departments of Equality and Law Reform and Justice will be well placed to address the formidable agenda facing us. It would be remiss of me not to mention the sterling work done by the former Minister, Mr. Taylor, when he was responsible for the equality and law reform brief. I am delighted that in facing these challenges I will be assisted by the newly appointed Minister of State, Deputy Wallace, who will have special responsibility for equality and disability issues.

I also pay tribute to my predecessor in office, Deputy Owen. As Opposition spokesman on Justice, I was justifiably critical of the previous Government's record on crime, but it would be churlish of me not to accept that as Minister for Justice she gave a great deal of personal commitment to making improvements in the criminal justice system and together in this House we succeeded in bringing about considerable reform. To that extent I feel I am continuing today where I left off.

Turning to the very important resolution before the House, certain sections of the Criminal Justice (Drug Trafficking) Act, primarily relating to extra detention powers for the gardaí, will under the terms of the Act cease to be in operation from 9 September 1997 unless a resolution is passed by both Houses of the Oireachtas extending their operation. The main section at issue is section 2 which allows persons suspected of drug trafficking offences to be detained for up to seven days. The purpose of the resolution is to continue the relevant sections of the Act in force until 31 December 1998.

It is hard to imagine a more corrosive threat to the quality of life in our community than that posed by those who engage in the evil trade of drug trafficking. Their activities have brought about death and destruction on an incalculable scale. Families have been destroyed and communities have literally being placed under siege. There is probably no greater fear among parents rearing children today than that they will fall prey to drug abuse.

The Government is committed to tackling drug abuse in a comprehensive way. We will take steps to reduce the demand for drugs through education and community based initiatives. We will offer our services to those who have become addicted to drugs to help them break their habit. We clearly recognise that a criminal justice system on its own cannot comprehensively tackle the problem of drug abuse. However, the criminal justice system has a vital role in curbing the activities of drug traffickers. This Government will ensure that role is played fully and relentlessly.

One message should go clearly from this House today; there will be absolutely no let up in the fight against drug trafficking. The fight will be intensified. The full resources of the State will be deployed in this area. Where those resources need to be enhanced, I guarantee the House and, through it, the people that they will be.

Over the past year or so considerable progress has been made in taking on drug traffickers, but there is no room for complacency or defeatism. It is generally accepted that the proceeds of crime legislation, which I introduced from the other side of this House last year and which was taken on board by the then Government, has greatly assisted the Garda and other agencies in ensuring that crime does not pay. I place on record — and I am sure all Members will join me in this — our appreciation of the work which has been done by all the agencies involved, particularly by the staff of the Criminal Assets Bureau. However, our ultimate aim is not to seize the profits of drug trafficking: it is to put drug traffickers out of business altogether. To achieve this we need to ensure that the Garda have the necessary powers available to them to investigate fully drug offences.

It is in this context that the resolution before the House today is being brought forward. It is appropriate that the first substantive debate on legislative measures in the 28th Dáil relates to the fight against drug trafficking. I know the previous Government intended to move a resolution along these lines and it is right that this House has taken the earliest opportunity available to it to proceed with this measure. I thank members of the Opposition for their co-operation.

Having had the honour of being appointed Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, I have a very full agenda. We will have many opportunities in the House to debate all the issues involved.

Obviously, it would not be appropriate or possible during this short debate to deal with criminal justice matters generally in great detail, but in the context of this debate it would be useful to announce to the House that I hope to bring forward a Criminal Justice Bill in the autumn which will contain a series of strong measures to tighten the vice further on drug traffickers and other serious criminals.

I intend that the Bill, as one of a number of measures to speed up trials, will include provision for the abolition of the preliminary examination system. There will be improved procedures for going after the assets of people convicted of drug trafficking offences through allowing a court to initiate an asset inquiry. It will deal with tougher sentencing so that those convicted of serious drug trafficking offences will know that they will inevitably face sentences of 10 years or more. This was an amendment I moved in this House and in committee on at least three occasions as Opposition spokesperson on justice. My view then was that it should be introduced. My view now, in Government, is that it should be introduced. I intend to be entirely consistent.

I turn now to the technical details of the resolution before the House. Section 11 of the Criminal Justice (Drug Trafficking) Act, 1996, provides that section 2, powers of detention, section 3, the amendment of the Criminal Justice (Forensic Evidence) Act, 1990, section 4, rearrest, section 5, the application of provisions of the Criminal Justice Act, 1984, and section 6, regulations regarding officers of customs and excise, shall cease to be in operation at the expiry of 12 months from the date of their commencement unless resolutions are passed by each House of the Oireachtas continuing their operation.

All provisions of the 1996 Act were commenced by ministerial order on 9 September 1996. Section 11 of the 1996 Act also provides that before such resolutions may be passed the Minister for Justice must cause to be laid before each House a report on the operation of the sections in question covering the period ending not more than 21 days before the moving of the resolution. Before leaving office my predecessor laid such a report covering the period up to 16 June 1996. However, in the light of the 21 day requirement I arranged last Monday to have a second report covering the period up to 27 June laid before the Oireachtas.

When the 1996 Act was going through the Oireachtas last year it had widespread support — indeed, it followed a Misuse of Drugs Bill which I had introduced which would also have allowed for 7 day detention in drug trafficking cases. However, it was agreed that given the very strong detention powers which the measure contained it was right that the measure should be reviewed regularly by the Oireachtas and it is against this background that the House is being asked to continue the relevant provisions in operation until 31 December 1998.

While they are already available in the report which I mentioned, it may be useful for the purposes of this debate to give some statistics provided by the Garda authorities in relation to the operation of the provisions in question. These cover the period 9 September 1996 to 27 June 1997. The total number of persons detained under section 2 of the Act was 145. Of these 48 were held for a period not exceeding 6 hours; 50 between 6 hours and 24 hours; 26 between 24 and 48 hours; 10 between 48 hours and 120 hours; and 11 between 120 hours to 168 hours. Of the 145, 97 were released without charge and 48 were charged. Of that 48, three were convicted, four were acquitted and 41 cases are pending.

It might be worth reminding the House that under the terms of the section detention for periods up to 48 hours can be approved by members of the Garda Síochána of specified rank; periods greater than that have to be authorised by the courts. I should also mention specifically section 6 of the Act which enabled the Minister for Justice, following consultation with the Minister for Finance, to make regulations providing for the attendance of an officer of customs and excise at, and the participation of such an officer in, the questioning of persons detained under the provisions of the Act. As the report points out, work is proceeding on the preparation of regulations under the section which will be the subject of consultations with the Minister for Finance and the Garda authorities.

The Garda authorities have indicated that the provisions of the Drug Trafficking Act have proved beneficial to the force in their investigation of drug trafficking offences. In my view the operation of the relevant sections of the Act for the relatively short period in question has made a substantial contribution to the fight against the drugs menace. The continuation in operation of these sections together with other strong measures which I propose to take are necessary so that we can continue to tackle head on those who engage in drug trafficking. That is why I commend this resolution to the House.

Mrs. Owen

This is the first opportunity I have had to congratulate Deputy O'Donoghue on his appointment as Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. I wish him well in the job. I know from first hand that it is a difficult one and will bring him many sleepless nights. I assure the Minister that I will put him under the same kind of scrutiny he exercised when I was in office. It will be interesting to watch the Minister's progress because he was extremely vocal when in Opposition. I wish him well in fulfilling some of the things he promised then but perhaps he will now realise it is not as easy as he assumed. The Minister is entitled to a few weeks in which to learn the job but after that no mercy will be shown if he does not deliver on his promises.

I also wish the Minister of State at the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy Mary Wallace, well in her role with responsibility for people with disabilities. That is an important part of the new Department. I am confused, however, because when the Taoiseach announced the new Ministers he said he had appointed Deputy O'Donoghue to "the Department of Justice and the Department of Equality and Law Reform". I would like some clarification on this. When I rang the Department of Justice recently, it was announced as the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, yet the Minister seems to have been appointed to the Department of Justice and the Department of Equality and Law Reform. Perhaps he could clarify whether he is in charge of two Departments or one. What has happened to the staff of the Department of Equality and Law Reform? Are they now under the Minister's Department? There may well be some internal problems in the Department. I would like to know what the name of the Department will be in future. It appears to be the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform.

I will suspend my judgment on the amalgamation of both Departments until I see how the issues of equality and law reform are handled under the mantle of the Department of Justice. I mean no disrespect to either the Department of Justice or the Department of Equality and Law Reform. Hitherto, the existence of a separate Department of Equality and Law Reform meant various groups could be sure their point of view on issues and problems would be highlighted. The Department of Justice must handle so many issues that I hope those of equality and law reform will not become lost in the pressures and tensions that arise.

I welcome this motion. As the Minister rightly said, one of my last acts as Minister for Justice was to lay a report before the Houses of the Oireachtas to make sure we could extend the detention period specified in sections 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 of the Criminal Justice (Drug Trafficking) Act, 1996. The decision to extend it was the right one. The experience of the Act thus far shows it has been a useful weapon for the Garda in dealing with drug traffickers. According to figures provided by the Minister today, 145 people have been arrested under the Act. Not many of them were detained for the extended period of seven days but, nonetheless, 11 people were held for between 120 and 168 hours. There was a need for the gardaí to have that time to get information relevant to the charges being made. I am glad I introduced that legislation which was a serious attempt to deal with a corrosive element in our society.

When we talk about drug abuse and drug trafficking it is easy to concentrate on the horrors caused by the availability of drugs and the suffering of drug addicts. However, behind every drug addict is a damaged family and community with sad stories to tell. When I was Minister for Justice, we looked at a profile of 3,579 drug abusers who had been in contact with the gardaí in 1996. The preliminary findings showed that 89 per cent were heroin users, 5 per cent were ecstasy users and 6 per cent used a variety of drugs, including methadone. Some 85 per cent were male, 80 per cent were aged between 15 and 30 years of age and 98 per cent were unemployed. These people should have been at the pinnacle of their education, trying to gain employment or starting a new family. These damning statistics, which profile the young people who become heroin addicts and therefore criminals and who end up in jail or dead, are an indictment of us all.

I remind the Minister that Fianna Fáil stated in its document, A Radical Approach to Drugs and Drug-Related Crime, that the last two decades "have seen the menace of serious drug addiction spread its evil tentacles into cities and towns throughout Ireland". Fianna Fáil was in charge of the Department of Justice for 13 of those 20 years. The Minister has a lot of work to do to make up for the failure to do anything during those 13 years when the drugs problem was growing. The figures show that from 1988 to 1992 there was a growth in the number of drug seizures and in the number of people looking for drug treatment. There was evidence that this problem would overwhelm us if we did not do something about it.

It is only in the past couple of years that substantial progress has been made to tackle the problems of drug trafficking and social exclusion, to give treatment to people and to improve the lives of those communities from which so many of these 98 per cent unemployed young men between the ages of 15 and 30 come. Harsh laws which we might not have countenanced ten years ago, or motions such as the one we are discussing today, will not solve the problem unless we tackle it from both sides and provide drug treatment facilities and job opportunities in affected communities and make environmental improvements. I hope the job started by the outgoing Government will be continued.

I read a newspaper report yesterday that the Government announced the setting up of a Cabinet sub-committee on drugs. We, in Government, set up such a committee and the Minister is continuing the one which was in place. We found it was necessary to bring together a number of Ministers to tackle the problem in a multifaceted way. I suppose imitation is the sincerest form of flattery so I should be flattered that, according to the Minister's speech, so many of the measures which were started by the Government of which I was a part will be continued.

I urge the Minister to maintain the progress we made with the local drugs strategy teams. I welcome the fact that the Minister of State, Deputy Flood, will be in charge of the national drugs strategy team because we did not decide to set up those teams on a whim. We recognised that it was only through bringing together all the agencies of the State in a multifaceted way that we could begin to make some impact on what was happening in communities.

I am also glad to hear the Minister praise the work of the Criminal Assets Bureau because its creation, more than any other action, has had a huge effect on getting to the big drug barons who have been preying on the community as opposed to the small time addicts who turn out to be pushers. One never finds the former taking drugs, living in awful conditions or suffering illnesses as a result. If one manages to locate them, one finds they live royally in fine houses at home and abroad on the proceeds of the products which they get other people to sell on their behalf.

The Criminal Assets Bureau has really got to work on those people and many of them are now before the courts or cases are being prepared so that they can be prosecuted. Support for the Criminal Assets Bureau must be maintained and anything it requires should be made available to it by the Government. The Minister can be assured that we, on this side of the House, will not stand in the way of additional resources or facilities being made available to the Criminal Assets Bureau.

Over the past few years we have seen increasing attempts to make these criminal activities respectable. These people invest their money in pubs, restaurants, dancehalls, buildings, houses, cars, boats, etc., to the point where it is hard to tell with whom one may be communicating in certain strata of social life. I hope that these people who are masquerading as decent upright citizens and who drive around in big cars and attend all the best social places will be found out through the efforts of the Criminal Assets Bureau and pursued relentlessly until they are convicted of their crimes because they are responsible agents in the loss of many lives. They are murderers. They have broken up families. They have had no compunction in peddling their evil goods for profit and I hope we will see many more of them behind bars.

The Minister stated that he will introduce another Criminal Justice Bill at the end of the year which will contain a series of strong measures which will further tighten the vice on drug traffickers. He mentioned two measures, the abolition of the preliminary examination system and the introduction of ten year mandatory sentences for serious drug trafficking offences. I can only refer to those matters because I do not yet know what else will be in that Bill. I know that the preliminary examination system has given rise to delays from time to time but I would caution the Minister not to throw out the baby with the bath water. A special committee is looking at the preliminary examination system but the Minister should not do away with the benefits of that system just because he feels he must carry that policy from this side of the House.

Second, I caution him about the mandatory sentences mentioned in his party's pre-election document. He should be careful that, in his efforts to appear hard and macho and to fulfil his words on this side of the House, he does not create a law which leads to injustices. I will reserve my judgment until I see what form the legislation takes.

I wish the Minister well. Far be it from me to make his first day in the Dáil as Minister more nerve-wracking than it usually is. However, we will be scrutinising him closely and there will be no mercy if he fails in the job he has taken.

Mr. Broughan

I wish to share my time with Deputy Gregory.

Acting Chairman (Mr. Kirk)

Is that agreed? Agreed.

Mr. Broughan

I congratulate Deputy O'Donoghue on his first ministerial task in the 28th Dáil and wish him well. Seldom has someone proffered so much advice and made such a major contribution from the Opposition benches. We look forward to his being able to implement some of the approaches he suggested.

On behalf of the Labour Party, I strongly support the extension of the key provisions of the Criminal Justice (Drug Trafficking) Act until 31 December 1998. This was one of a series of measures taken by the rainbow Government which began, at long last, to turn the tide in the desperate struggle against the drug barons and the devastation they wreaked on our most vulnerable communities. However, during many Governments this House was remiss in its duty and seemed reluctant to take the vigorous action necessary to deal with this horrendous social crisis which affects so many urban areas. The rainbow Government, particularly the former Ministers, Deputy Quinn and Deputy Owen, must be commended for introducing this raft of legislation, including the Criminal Assets Bureau Act and the Proceeds of Crime Act, which have finally given the State and the representatives of the people a major counterweight against the depredations of the drug barons.

I welcome the Minister's comments about the forthcoming Criminal Justice Bill. We look forward to it and to the ideas he intends putting forward. He mentioned the number of people detained for questioning under the Criminal Justice (Drug Trafficking) Act. Approximately 100 were held for less than 24 hours and 48 were charged as a result of the investigations, which is a significant number.

The plague of drugs still devastates our communities. In central and north Dublin it remains the number one problem. It is worth reflecting on the fact that communities had to respond themselves, out of intense frustration, and that it took the deaths of Veronica Guerin and Garda Jerry McCabe before this House got its act together.

One of the most important tasks the Minister will have is the management of the Garda Síochána. The recent report of the Garda Commissioner showed that the unsatisfactory position still continues — 60 per cent of crime occurs in the Dublin area but less than 40 per cent of gardaí are based here. It is still the case that in many constituencies which are seriously affected by the drugs menace, including my own, there are fewer than 200 gardaí for 80,000 to 100,000 people, only 20 or 40 of whom are available at any one time. The Minister must consider that as soon as possible.

We welcome the moves taken by Commissioners Byrne and King in relation to Operation Dóchas. However, while community policing has a great tradition and record in Dublin and other urban areas, it is not allocated the necessary resources. At any one time, only 8 to 10 per cent of the available manpower and womanpower is patrolling the streets and working with communities. If the Minister is prepared to act on his zero tolerance policy he must also be prepared to provide the necessary resources.

New York is the home of zero tolerance and the Minister has been influenced by some of the police in that city. However, the key to success in New York was the huge level of manpower devoted to critical areas. Until 18 months or two years ago the most deprived areas, which suffered intensely because of the drug menace, were allocated the least Garda resources. However, that situation has begun, at long last, to turn around.

As the former Minister, Deputy Owen said, we still need a much more vigorous and proactive drug treatment policy. We had a £14 million drug action plan but some areas, such as Darndale and Belcamp in my constituency, still do not have a drug treatment and referral service, although the local community and its representatives have struggled valiantly for the last four and a half years to bring that about. The Minister has a great deal to do in the area of referral and treatment. He must also encourage his colleague, the Minister for Health, and the other Ministers to work in that area.

The Labour Party's policy has consistently been to be tough on crime and on the causes of crime. The amounts of money allocated by the Government to areas such as youth and sport are derisory. I welcome the appointment of a Minister with direct responsibility for sport, but the paltry sum of £6 million or £7 million for youth and sports in local communities will not tackle the causes of crime or provide the necessary resources.

I strongly support the measure being taken today. I wish the Minister well but, as Deputy Owen said, we will be watching his every move very closely.

Mr. Gregory

I join with other Deputies in congratulating the Minister, Deputy O'Donoghue, on his appointment. I hope to be around to offer constructive criticism and support in the future, as I tried to do during Deputy Owen's period in office. I remember saying to Deputy Owen in the House that if I were to judge her at the end of her term it would be on the basis of whether people such as the Boxer, Footballer and Penguin were still wandering around Dublin in their fancy cars, buying properties and businesses and being written about in the Sunday Independent. Unfortunately, since I said that the person who was writing about them has been murdered.

Today, the Boxer is in prison in England. The Footballer was in prison in England but managed to "beat the rap", as they say, and is now running a number of businesses in cities in Britain. The Penguin, a Mr. Mitchell, is, we are led to believe, running his operations from Amsterdam. The logic of that is that while some of the measures and community actions which were taken have been successful to some degree, these people need to be pursued, a fact which I hope the Minister will take account of in his intended initiatives. I hope people like Derek Dunne, "the Footballer", Thomas Mullins, "the Boxer", George Mitchell "the Penguin" and others who wreaked such havoc, are not allowed live on the proceeds of the misery they created by setting up businesses whether in Manchester, Liverpool, Amsterdam or elsewhere. The Garda, in co-operation with other relevant police forces, must pursue them, have them dealt with on the spot or seek their extradition and compel them to pay for the appalling crimes they committed.

The Minister said:

Families have been destroyed; communities placed under siege. There is probably no greater fear among parents rearing children in this country today than that their children will fall prey to drug abuse.

I live in and represent an area where the reality of life is summed up in those two sentences. Unfortunately, this House and the Garda have failed people in this and similar areas for almost 20 years. Parents in those areas engaged in a battle against drug dealers at a time when nobody else, including Members of this House and the Garda, would do so.

I mention that fact now because some of those parents — because of their very courageous fight against drug dealers — now find themselves before the courts charged on the evidence of individuals, themselves involved in drugs, who should have no credibility whatsoever. Indeed, members of the Judiciary who have shown themselves over the years to be totally out of touch with the drugs problem, who handed out derisory sentences to heroin dealers, now treat these people as public enemy No. 1.

I want to send a message to those members of the Judiciary that the parents now appearing before them charged with community action against drug dealers should be awarded medals rather than handed out sentences, because they were the only people who stood up to drug dealers over a long period. I feel very strongly about that. I know some of these individuals personally and witnessed their courageous leadership of some very frightened people. It is outrageous that they be brought before the courts in the first place, based on the evidence of individuals known to the Garda to be involved in drugs and, having been arraigned before the courts in such manner, then to be treated like common criminals by the Judiciary.

I do not for a moment suggest that anybody who commits any crime should not be pursued but I find alarming the manner in which the Garda have pursued genuinely concerned parents in areas where the same Garda were totally neglectful in pursuing drug dealers who had been openly selling heroin on public footpaths a few hundred yards from their stations. The Garda need to examine their consciences and scrutinise those witnesses approaching them levelling charges against certain individuals. If the relevant Garda and members of the Judiciary passing judgment on these people examined their cases with much greater care than has obtained to date, we might have a much healthier community and society as a whole.

I agree with Deputy Broughan. We can have all the policies and goodwill we want but if the manpower is not available to enable local drug units to go into the areas involved and make it impossible for drug dealers to operate, it will have no major effect. That is critical, as is the point made by Deputy Owen that heroin in particular is responsible for poverty and social disadvantage. If we do not use the great strides made in the economy in terms of wealth created to give real equality and opportunity to the children in areas of disadvantage, we are wasting our time.

I take this opportunity to congratulate the Leas-Cheann Comhairle on his appointment.

As I pointed out to the Minister, Deputy O'Donoghue, when he was on the other side of the House and promoted the ten year mandatory sentence, it is important when considering this provision to focus attention on heroin, the drug that causes such devastation. I could not agree more that mandatory ten year sentences should be imposed on those who are not addicts but are found dealing with a significant amount of heroin. By focusing on that drug we will send out the message that we will ruin the evil people who deal in heroin, destroying young children and communities in the manner that unfortunately has happened in far too many areas, particularly in Dublin.

Debate adjourned.