Vol. 492 No. 7
22 Proinsias De Rossa asked the Minister for Education and Science if he will give an estimate of the total amount of money paid by parents at first and second level by way of voluntary contributions to schools, based on the latest information available to his Department; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [14983/98]
My Department provides funding towards the day to day running costs of primary and second level schools which are in the free education scheme.
At primary level the funding is provided by means of per capita grants. At second level, depending on the type of school involved, it is provided by a mixture of per capita and block grants and budgetary allocations.
I am aware that some schools seek and obtain voluntary contributions from parents. However, as schools are not required to submit returns of voluntary contributions received by them, my Department has no basis on which to estimate the total amount of such contributions.
I am astonished by the Minister's reply. Surely the Department has an estimate of the amount of voluntary contributions paid by parents to primary and second level schools. Is the Minister aware that parents of primary and second level pupils are paying voluntary contributions because the per capita grants are not sufficient for the maintenance of schools?
It is not astonishing because that has been the position for many years. The Department does not have statistics or a database on voluntary fundraising in which schools engage. I am aware that second level schools engage in fundraising and have done so for years. However, the key issue is that it involves voluntary contributions. There should not be an obligation or compulsion on parents of pupils attending a second level school which is part of the free education scheme to make such payments. The attendance of children at such schools should not be conditional on the payment of voluntary contributions.
The Minister appears reluctant to provide the information.
The Department does not have it.
I am astonished it does not have it. Does the Minister have an estimate of the proportion of the costs of running schools that are represented by per capita grants? Does he have an estimate of the shortfalls which exist in terms of the per capita grants provided by his Department and the real cost of running schools?
Primary managers have indicated——
Will the Deputy put a brief supplementary question. Question Time is due to end soon and I want the Minister to have an opportunity to reply.
Primary managers have indicated they can no longer raise the type of funds necessary to make up the shortfalls to which Deputy Gilmore referred to run their schools and that they are considering imposing levies.
A question please, Deputy.
Does the Minister agree that under the Constitution he will be obliged to step in if the patrons of schools can no longer meet the costs? How does he propose to address the issue of the declining ability of patrons to meet the cost of running schools and the resulting obligation on parents to make up the shortfall?
Under the provisions of the Education (No. 2) Bill, boards of management will be obliged to keep accounts only in relation to moneys made available from the Exchequer. Will the Minister consider introducing an amendment on Report Stage under which voluntary contributions must be recorded? This matter involves basic issues of equity.
Does the Minister accept there is a feeling among schools which operate on the basis of voluntary contributions and which must scrimp and save, that they are discriminated against because schools which are fully dependent on the State get everything for doing very little? The Minister is aware that in my constituency two schools, Haddington Road and City Quay——
A question please, Deputy. I want the Minister to have an opportunity to reply.
I am giving the crisp example of Haddington Road and City Quay schools.
That is not appropriate. I ask the Deputy to resume his seat and allow the Minister to respond.
The Minister is aware of the two schools.
Deputy Gilmore was in Government for a number of years and he is aware that the information to which he referred is not collected. The education system is State aided, but it is not controlled by the State, particularly at second level. New types of schools are emerging, such as community schools and vocational colleges, which are 100 per cent funded by the State. Deputy Gormley is correct that different funding arrangements apply to these schools. People may be astonished but that has been the position for many years. Representations from owners have been to the effect that they are not happy with over encroachment by the State in terms of their ownership and management responsibilities.
Regarding Deputy O'Shea's point about the Education (No. 2) Bill, I am prepared to consider a Report Stage amendment. I have been advised that primary and secondary schools are subject to audit by the Comptroller and Auditor General but there may be a need to include a provision in the Bill. The matter will be discussed with the partners in the intervening period.
I intend to deal with the issue raised by Deputy Bruton in consultation with the partners and not on the basis of a unilateral decision by one partner which would be unacceptable. I met the management bodies concerned and addressed their annual conference. I gave my thoughts on the issue of the local contribution. It cannot be phased out overnight. It involves a sum of up to £5 million and if that happened, it would be a case of replacing existing contributions from management bodies with Exchequer contributions. There would be no net gain to primary schools if such a move was made. The bottom line is that an effort should be made to increase the funding for primary schools and not only to change the system of funding which would have no net impact on schools. A steering group is considering this matter and I hope to receive its report on the funding disparities in vocational, community and comprehensive schools and voluntary secondary schools soon.
I do not have time to deal with Deputy Gormley's question but I can contact the Deputy about it.
Written Answers follow Adjournment Debate.
