Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 23 Nov 1999

Vol. 511 No. 3

Order of Business.

The Taoiseach

The Order of Business today shall be as follows: No. 10, Motion re Leave to introduce Supplementary Estimates [Votes 31 and 32]; No. 11, Motion re Referral of Supplementary Estimates [Votes 31 and 32] to Select Committees; No. 11a on the Supplementary Order Paper, Motion re Fourth Protocol to the Treaty of Amsterdam (A proposal for a Council Regulation (EC) on jurisdiction and the recognition and enforcement of judgments in civil and commercial matters) Referral to Joint Committee; No. 34, Stamp Duties Consolidation Bill, 1999, Second Stage (resumed); and No. 2, ICC Bank Bill, 1999, Order for Second Stage and Second Stage.

It is also proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that No. 10, Leave to Introduce Supplementary Estimates [Votes 31 and 32], and subject to the agreement of No. 10, No. 11, shall be decided without debate and any divisions demanded on Nos. 10 and 11 shall be taken forthwith. No. 11a shall be decided without debate. The Second Stage of No. 34 shall be taken today and the proceedings thereon, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion at 7 p.m. tonight. Private Members' Business shall be No. 83, Motion re Confidence in the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

There are three proposals to put to the House. Are the arrangements for dealing with Nos. 10 and 11 agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 11a on the Supplementary Order Paper agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 34 agreed? Agreed.

Mr. J. Bruton

What is the state of play in terms of promised amendments to the libel laws in view of the recent successful pursuit of a newspaper by a member of the Government in regard to governmental work? Does the Taoiseach believe there might be better ways of vindicating the reputation of public figures than the pursuit of such actions?

The Taoiseach

The heads of the Bill are expected by the end of 1999. I do not have a date for the legislation, but work is in progress in the Department.

Mr. Quinn

Yesterday's newspapers carried reports of a major initiative on immigration. Under promised legislation – the Leas-Cheann Comhairle will be relieved to hear I am in order – two Bills are making their way through the inexorably slow system of Government. The first is the Works Permits Bill which is the responsibility of the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment and the second is No. 76, under section C of the Government's published list of legislation, entitled an Immigration and Residence Bill. Under which legislation will the proposal to provide work permits for up to 5,000 people be brought forward; if the heads of the Bill have been agreed; and when are we liable to see the legislation?

Mr. Howlin

And has anybody told Deputy O'Donoghue?

Mr. Quinn

Indeed.

Mr. Howlin

Or Deputy McCreevy, for that matter?

The Taoiseach

The heads of the Work Permits Bill have already been agreed. The Bill is not expected until later next year. The heads of the Immigration and Residence Bill are expected later next year.

Mr. Quinn

Do I take it then that the reference to the proposals which were announced with such fanfare yesterday are not covered by either of those Bills?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

That does not arise on the Order of Business.

Mr. Quinn

On promised legislation, I asked the Taoiseach if the two Bills referred to yesterday's headline of the decision of the Government. I think that is in order. I am not asking the contents of the Bill.

The Taoiseach

The Work Permits Bill is to deal with the issue of the work permits regime in respect of non-EU nationals working in the State. I am not certain if the Minister wishes to proceed under that legislation or separately. If he were to proceed under that legislation the measure would be part of that. I understand the Ministers are anxious to bring this forward as soon as possible. In the meantime the existing provisions for work permits are being used and approximately 15,000 non-EU citizens have used those in recent times.

Mr. Quinn

The changes in legislation, as proposed, will not be brought forward to the House until the end of next year. Is that correct?

The Taoiseach

The Deputy should submit a question to the Minister. My information is that the Work Permits Bill, which is a short Bill, will not be due until late next year.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

We cannot have a debate on this question.

Mr. Quinn

This matter is relevant and we are talking about promised legislation. I am asking about the timetable. My concern is exclusively with the timetable. The Bill is entitled an Act "to update the law on immigration, residence and other matters in relation to non-nationals". This is relevant at present. I am told that the heads of the Bill are in preparation in the Department. Does the Taoiseach have any additional information in relation to how advanced the legislation is?

Mr. Howlin

The end of next year?

The Taoiseach

It may not depend on that legislation and that is why the Deputy should submit a question to the Minister. As the Deputy knows, the current regulations which cover non-nationals are working to bring a very high proportion of people into the State. They are being used and have been used extensively in recent years. The Work Permits Bill is due next year but the Deputy should ask the Minister whether the regulations are already being updated or whether this legislation is being awaited.

Mrs. Owen

Given that the announcement made by the two Ministers and carried in yesterday's newspapers said that the new regime would be in place and working by next March, does the Taoiseach accept that the legislation of which he is speaking could not possibly be the same legislation that was in the minds of the Ministers for Enterprise, Trade and Employment and Justice, Equality and Law Reform? If the Ministers made the announcement, can the Taoiseach tell the House what legislation they propose which could be enacted and in force by next March? The Ministers obviously are thinking of amending that legislation and bringing it forward so that it will be passed by next March. Will the Taoiseach examine this issue, because if they have announced this measure they may as well make it work?

The Taoiseach

For many years there have been regulations to govern work permits. They are being extensively used and an enormous number of people are coming in under that regime.

Mrs. Owen

Why did the Ministers announce new legislation?

The Taoiseach

The Deputies should ask the Ministers if they intend changing those regulations for people who are working. Anyone who is a non-EU national requires to operate within the work permit system. It works extremely successfully. Unlike some years ago there is hardly any delay but work permit legislation is being considered.

Mr. Barrett

Deputy O'Donnell is right. The whole thing is a shambles.

Mr. Sheehan

It took her a long time to wake up.

Mr. J. Bruton

This is news management.

Mrs. Owen

On a point of order, the Ceann Comhairle has ruled that if a Minister makes an announcement about legislation outside the House it is valid to raise the matter.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

We have spent five minutes discussing this legislation. We can have no more discussion on it today.

Mrs. Owen

With respect, Sir, the Taoiseach has not answered the question.

The Taoiseach

What question?

Mrs. Owen

What legislation were Deputy Harney and Deputy O'Donoghue talking about which will be passed by next March to allow people who are currently not using the system now in place to come in, and to create a quota system for 5,000 workers? They both indicated that new legislation was needed. That announcement was made. If the Taoiseach does not know the answer it will be perfectly valid for him to promise to find out for the House.

The Taoiseach

The regulations at present in existence are bringing in far more than 5,000 people. One company alone brought in more than 400.

Mrs. Owen

We know all that.

Mr. Howlin

That was not the question.

The Taoiseach

The Bill to revamp the regulations to deal with the issue of the work permit regime for non-EU nationals working in the State was authorised for drafting last July. It was sent to the draftsman's office and will be due later next year.

Mrs. Owen

So why the big announcement yesterday?

Mr. Gilmore

Legislation to provide for directly elected, full-time city mayors and county council chairpersons has been promised a number of times. Has the Government approved that legislation and will it be included in the Local Government Bill which I understand will be published in January?

The Taoiseach

The Government has not finalised its deliberations on that matter yet.

Mr. Gilmore

Did the Minister for the Environment and Local Government have Government approval when he repeatedly promised this legislation before the last local elections? This is another promise of reform which the Government must go back on. County managers are running things.

Ms Fitzgerald

Other reforming legislation promised by the Taoiseach was a Bill to establish a State claims agency. Is it intended to proceed with this Bill so that cases taken against the State for compensation can be dealt with more efficiently than in the past?

The Taoiseach

The National Treasury Management Agency Bill is due at the end of this year.

Mr. Creed

Is the Taoiseach in a position to announce a new chairman of the Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine so that the committee can proceed with its business?

The Taoiseach

I will be, shortly.

Mr. Creed

This week?

The Taoiseach

The committee meets on Thursday and will elect the chairperson. The Government party will nominate a candidate. I hope Deputy Creed will make sure to elect my nominee.

Mr. Sargent

Tar éis an chás cúirte mar gheall ar phort Dhroichead Átha, an féidir leis an Taoiseach a rá linn cathain a thabharfar an Coastal Zone Management Bill os comhair an Tí? Tá baol ann go mbeidh Dúchas os comhair cúirte ar ball agus tá sé tábhachtach go n-achtfar an Bille.

The Taoiseach

That will definitely be in the next millennium.

Mr. Noonan

Has the Government decided on the form of the legislation to establish a single financial regulator?

The Taoiseach

No, the Government has not yet decided that.

Mr. Noonan

When will the Government decide on it? Will it be in the next millennium?

Mrs. Owen

It will be when Michael McDowell has decided.

Mr. G. Mitchell

In view of the public expressions of concern by the staff of the Irish Red Cross and their request to have the international Red Cross involved, when will the promised White Paper on defence be published and will it address this issue?

The Taoiseach

The Red Cross is an autonomous body with full power to control its own administration. The White Paper is due before Christmas but it will not assist in that matter.

Mr. Quinn

While the Red Cross is an autonomous body, next year it will receive £590,000 and the President is its patron. Does the Government have any plans to introduce amending legislation to govern the operation of the Red Cross, in the light of concerns that have been expressed?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

That is not appropriate to the Order of Business.

Mr. Quinn

I am asking if the Government has any plans to modernise the legislation under which the Red Cross operates.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Deputies are only allowed raise promised legislation on the Order of Business.

Mr. Stagg

One never knows what the Taoiseach might promise if he is given the chance.

Mr. Belton

All they do is make promises.

Mr. Higgins

(Mayo): Given that the chairman of the local drugs task force confirmed there were 12,000 heroin addicts in Dublin four years ago, that that increased to 15,000 two years ago and that we now have the frightening news that another couple of thousand have been added to that figure, what is holding up the legislation for the drug courts? Do we need legislation? If not, why can we not get on with it?

Mrs. Owen

Another of the Minister's promises.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Is legislation promised?

The Taoiseach

The Deputy should table a parliamentary question on the matter. There has been more effort and activity to deal with heroin addicts than ever before, which has proven to be very successful in many of the areas which were black spots a number of years ago.

Mr. Higgins

(Mayo): Those are the statistics.

The Taoiseach

The Minister spelled out here how the drug courts can be used and can operate.

Mrs. Owen

They are not in operation yet.

Mr. Quinn

Since it is not possible for us to table questions for oral reply to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform before the House goes into recess, does the Taoiseach, with his responsibility for the Attorney General's office, intend to make a statement today or before the House adjourns for Christmas on the Nora Wall case, in the light of what has now—

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

That matter will be the subject of debate tonight during Private Members' time. There will be an opportunity then for the Deputy to raise it.

Mr. Howlin

Along with many other things.

Mr. Quinn

I know, but the Taoiseach will not—

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

It is not appropriate on the Order of Business.

Mr. Quinn

You might assist me, Sir. I am not looking for content. I am looking for an indication of whether it is the Taoiseach's intention to make a statement on this matter, as he has responsibility for the Attorney General's office.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The matter will be the subject of debate tonight. It arises in Private Members' business tonight and tomorrow night and there will be an opportunity then.

Mr. Quinn

I will come back to it.

Mr. Finucane

The Fisheries (Amendment) Bill will be taken in the Dáil on Thursday. There is a great deal of concern about this Bill. Will the Taoiseach assure me there will not be an attempt to guillotine the debate on this Bill? There is concern that it is being pushed through very quickly.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

That is not appropriate to the Order of Business. I call Deputy Joe Higgins.

Mr. Finucane

I want reassurance from the Taoiseach because there is a great deal of concern about this Bill.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

That is not appropriate to the Order of Business.

Mr. Finucane

I am sure the Government remembers the rod war when a Bill was pushed through in 1990.

The Taoiseach

It has been tabled and there is not a limit on it.

Mr. Higgins

(Dublin West): In view of the statement from the Irish Home Builders Association, which is attempting to blackmail the Dáil into backing down on legislation that might put a dent in the rampant profiteering of the housing industry—

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Has the Deputy a question on legislation?

Mr. Higgins

(Dublin West): Yes. Is the Government tabling a substantial amendment to the planning Bill – and, if so, when will it be brought forward – in regard to the setting aside of lands owned by developers for social housing and shared ownership housing? Will the Government state it will not cave in to blackmail by the profiteers in the building industry?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

We are moving on. I call Deputy Stagg.

Mr. Higgins

(Dublin West): That question is in order. It relates to an amendment mentioned by the Minister, outside the House, in regard to the planning Bill. I believe that is in order.

The Taoiseach

It will come before this House in due course.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I apologise to Deputy Higgins. I got lost in the Second Stage speech he was making.

The Taoiseach

The Bill is in the Seanad. Amendments have been tabled and will come before this House shortly.

Mr. Stagg

Given the collapse of the telephone system last week, when can we expect to see the electricity Bill, to ensure the telephone and electricity systems do not collapse at the same time?

The Taoiseach

The electricity Bill will be taken next year.

Mr. Stagg

Will we have power black outs by then?

(Interruptions.)

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I call Deputy Bruton. Without interruption.

Mr. J. Bruton

Have the heads of the private security Bill been approved by the Government yet? Has drafting of that Bill commenced, in view of the great importance of ensuring that industry is properly regulated in order to safeguard citizens?

The Taoiseach

The heads of the private security industry Bill are expected this month.

Mr. J. Bruton

How many heads are there? Is it a big or small Bill?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I should have pointed out to Deputy Quinn, in relation to Private Members' business tonight, that the decision of the DPP can only be raised in a very limited way because of long-standing precedent. I am sorry about that.

Mr. Quinn

I am aware of that.