Frances Fitzgerald
Ceist:29 Ms Fitzgerald asked the Minister for Education and Science the plans, if any, he has to designate new schools at primary or secondary levels as disadvantaged. [25228/99]
Other Questions. - Disadvantaged Status.
Bernard J. Durkan
Ceist:30 Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Education and Science the plans, if any, he has to address educational disadvantage, with particular reference to large classes; the plans, if any, he has for a programme to ensure that children at primary and secondary levels have adequate and equal opportunity to attain a high standard of education; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [25380/99]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 29 and 30 together.
My Department already devotes a considerable amount of resources to addressing the problem of educational disadvantage across the education system. One of my concerns with the present support system is that it lacks the necessary flexibility to target individual pupils or small pockets of disadvantage within the school system. My objective is to develop a more flexible response system which will continue to support schools with large concentrations of disadvantaged pupils but will also be responsive to the needs of individual or small groups of disadvantaged pupils throughout the country.
Issues such as class sizes, staffing and funding can all play a role in our efforts to combat educational disadvantage. However, it is equally important that resources are properly targeted and that the component elements of any support package are specifically tailored to address the needs of the particular school or individual pupil involved. We need an approach which is fully responsive to the variety of needs which exist within our schools, whether such needs arise in inner city areas, towns or isolated rural settings. The needs of the children should dictate our approach, irrespective of their location or circumstances. These children have a right to expect that they be given every opportunity to derive maximum benefit from our educational system. I assure the House that it is my intention that they get this support.
I will shortly be bringing forward a range of measures to complement existing support services and to ensure that no child suffering educational disadvantage will be neglected in the future.
Has the Minister decided that in future no new primary or secondary schools will be designated disadvantaged? Is he aware that many schools throughout the country are preparing submissions on the basis and expectation that disadvantaged status is still in place? Will he agree there is a danger that schools are embarking on a fool's errand in this regard? If he does not continue with more designations, are there anomalies whereby people are just outside the scheme? Yet he is allocating home-school-community liaison teachers to those schools with the designation. There needs to be more clarity in this area.
There needs to be more than just clarity, there needs to be a fundamental change in direction in terms of how we tackle disadvantage. The old schemes do not work. The old scheme facilitates what the Deputy has just described, that is, schools queuing to be declared disadvantaged and demanding an extra teacher and extra funding.
They are still at it.
I have told them not to apply because it will not happen in accordance with the old scheme. We need a more fundamental and sophisticated approach to disadvantage and we will be bringing forward proposals in that regard. As I have stated, we need to concentrate the focus on children who are disadvantaged rather than on schools. We need to put the onus on schools to develop strategies and plans to tackle disadvantage themselves and allocate funding in accordance with that. We must target funding to areas of greatest disadvantage. Rather than a one size fits all approach, we will be looking at a more varied approach with different levels of allocation and response to disadvantage in different school communities.
Will the Taoiseach –
Give the Minister a chance.
We will have to wait a few years for that.
I speak in anticipation of the greatness for which his colleagues in Munster are already impatient.
Generosity personified.
Does the Minister agree that involving schools in this kind of liaison and management, which I support, will require administrative resources being made available to them to implement it?
Yes, I agree with that.
The Minister has a report on a number of schools in Roscommon. Is he aware that 37 per cent of primary schools in County Roscommon have no hot water and a large percentage of pupils in some schools –
The purpose of Question Time is not to give information but to seek it.
There is no psychological service in place. Will the Minister consider putting resources into blackspots such as that in rural areas? The information is before him and has been for a number of months although he has denied the fact.
First, we must stop calling places "blackspots" and stop labelling children as "dis advantaged". We need to get away from that mentality and talk about supporting the needs of schools, irrespective of the context. We must be more affirmative in supporting children. There is no excuse for 37 per cent of schools in any county being without hot water. I cannot understand that. We have the largest capital budget ever. We will have spent £60 million in the primary area before the end of this year.
They are too near Athlone.
A devolved grant is issued to schools. There is no excuse for it. The Deputy should recheck his figures. It is an indictment of someone or something, but not the Department or the Minister, if 37 per cent of schools are without hot water. We will fix what has to be fixed.
The Minister has this information for the past 12 months.
We are conscious that there are difficulties in terms of educational disadvantage in rural and urban areas. Part of the problem with the existing schemes is they are very rigid in terms of their application and if a school did not qualify, if it did not have the requisite number of pupils, it did not get any support. Many schools with smaller numbers did not get any support. That is one of the difficulties. Significant progress has been made in terms of capital funding. We intend to bring forward further proposals.
I remind the Minister that supplementary questions and answers are limited to one minute.
I did not realise that.
(Carlow-Kilkenny): Does the Minister accept that the whole system of disadvantaged schools should be done away with? It causes a ripple effect. If a school is disadvantaged the one beside it is automatically further disadvantaged because it does not have the same pupil-teacher ratio. It can happen that a boys' school in a town is disadvantaged but the girls' school is not, although 80 per cent of parents would be common to both schools. If the Minister is saying it should be done away with, he will have my full support. I agree we should support schools that are disadvantaged but it should not become a status symbol to be disadvantaged.
I agree but it would be difficult to take away supports that are already in place in some schools. What we are talking about is creating additional resources. However, I agree with the Deputy's philosophy.
Will the Minister change the label that is used to describe these schools from disadvantaged to something else? If so, what will it be? What supports are in place for students under 15 years who are deemed to be unsuitable for school because of behavioural problems and drop out? What mechanisms are there to look after such students?
We are looking at the labels used but have not come to any conclusions yet. Even though we provide additional support in terms of home-school liaison and so on and remedial teaching for children under 15 years, the education welfare board, which will be established under the education welfare Bill, will be a fundamental pillar in terms of addressing the issues of those under 15 years who are in trouble in schools. That legislation will place significant obligations on everyone involved, most importantly the welfare officers who will have to intervene practically on behalf of the child to ensure he or she is provided with a programme of education or training that allows the child to fulfil his or her right to primary education and to education that leads to a qualification or certification.
It is clear that often children become more and more educationally disadvantaged because they are not identified early enough as having problems. What resources does the Minister intend to put in place to ensure children can be identified at an early stage when they are failing in school for either educational or psychological reasons? Having a psychological service is one obvious way but what plans has the Minister to ensure disadvantage does not build on disadvantage in terms of such children?
The fundamental infrastructure that must be put in place is the national education psychological service. I made a commitment to establish that service when I came into office and have done so. We are currently recruiting additional psychologists. We will be ahead of the target set by the steering committee in regard to the establishment of that service and the number of psychologists we have to appoint. That is a key factor in terms of assessments and so on. Another is additional supports, such as remedial teaching and home-school liaison and also early education. The National Development Plan has made substantial funding available to me over the next few years to develop a solid policy on early education which is essential in dealing with educational disadvantage from the earliest years.