Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 28 Nov 2000

Vol. 526 No. 6

Estimates for Public Services, 2000: Referral to Select Committee.

Minister for the Environment and Local Government (Mr. Dempsey)

I move:

That, subject to leave being given to introduce the following Supplementary Estimates for the service of the year ending 31st December, 2000, the Supplementary Estimates be referred to the following Select Committees pursuant to Standing Order 145(3) and paragraph (1)(a)(ii) of the Committees' Orders of Reference:

Vote 2 – Houses of the Oireachtas and the European Parliament (Supplementary Estimate)– Select Committee on Finance and the Public Service.

Vote 25 – Environment and Local Government (Supplementary Estimate)– Select Committee on Environment and Local Government.

Vote 26 – Office of the Minister for Education and Science (Supplementary Estimate)– Select Committee on Education and Science.

Vote 27 – First-Level Education (Supplementary Estimate)– Select Committee on Education and Science.

Vote 28 – Second-Level and Further Education (Supplementary Estimate)– Select Committee on Education and Science.

Vote 29 – Third-Level and Further Education (Supplementary Estimate)– Select Committee on Education and Science.

Vote 34 – Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Supplementary Estimate)– Select Committee on Enterprise and Small Business.

Vote 41 – An Chomhairle Ealaíon (Supplementary Estimate)– Select Committee on Heritage and the Irish Language.

Vote 42 – Arts, Heritage, Gaeltacht and the Islands (Supplementary Estimate)– Select Committee on Heritage and the Irish Language.

The supplementary estimate for the Environment and Local Government reaffirms this Government's commitment to providing the infrastructure appropriate to a modern economy so that economic progress can be maintained and built upon. We are delivering on the undertakings given in the national development plan and will continue to do so. Overall the Supplementary Estimate of £121 million represents an increase of about 7% on the net expenditure provision in my Department's revised estimate. It will fund the provision of an additional £80 million for the national roads network, £45 million for the water and waste water services programme and £30 million for the Exchequer contribution to this local Government fund. These are the principle spending increases for which the supplementary provides while the other items being catered for are mainly technical in nature. A new subhead is being opened to underpin a provision of £2.8 million for partnership and local authorities and a further subhead is being opened to defray expenditure of £800,000 on that national spatial strategy.

These increases, which amount to more than £158 million, will be partly offset by savings of more than £37 million arising on the social housing and urban renewal programmes. This leaves a net requirement of £121 million for which I seek a Supplementary Estimate this year.

The time available to me will not permit me to speak in detail on the different items for which I seek additional funding. There will be an opportunity for the Select Committee on the Environment and Local Government to debate the individual items, and I look forward to discussing with the committee the progress being made on the infrastructural and other programmes concerned.

Progress is being made on the national road network. The need to develop the network to the standard set out in the national development plan is universally accepted both by economic commentators and by those of us who use the network for business or domestic reasons. The national development plan will see more than £5 billion – measured in current prices – in the network. This will enable the rapid and sustained delivery of more than 600 kilometres of motorway or dual carriageway to be realised.

The requirement for an additional £80 million this year, coming on top of an historically high allocation, means that we are on course to achieve this. The current year has seen significant progress on many major road schemes, including the M1 Dunleer-Dundalk, the N9 Moone-Timolin, the N4 Mullingar-McNeads Bridge and the N20 Croom by-pass, all of which are expected to open by the end of the year, six months ahead of schedule. The N7 Nenagh by-pass opened in July – almost 12 months ahead of schedule, and the N25 Kilmacthomas by-pass is expected to be completed in the first quarter of 2001, six months ahead of schedule. Progress has also been made on the other major road schemes, such as the N11 Glen of the Downs, the M50 Southern Cross Route and the N20 Patrickswell/Limerick. Favourable weather conditions, allied to strengthening of on-site management practices by the larger construction firms, have had a significant impact on the progress of the major projects which are under way at present.

Water and waste water services constitute another vital programme in our drive to secure the infrastructure we need to lay the foundation for continuing economic growth. The rationale of this programme goes beyond economic growth alone; it represents an important component of our efforts to ensure that economic growth is achieved in tandem with, and not at the expense of, the protection of our natural environment. A sum of £36 million of the additional amount sought will be used to finance additional output from the Exchequer element of the major schemes component of the programme. The balance of £9 million will be directed to the programme for upgrading rural water supplies.

The other substantive amount being provided is the £30 million for the Exchequer contribution to the Local Government Fund, which will result in £315 million being available for this purpose in the current year. When the original provision of £285 million was settled in the context of this year's Estimates, the Programme for Prosperity and Fairness had yet to be agreed, and a significant proportion of the additional amount sought will cater for increased costs for local authorities arising from the terms of this agreement.

I commend the Supplementary Estimate to the House.

Mr. Yates

When I received this Supplementary Estimate last week I thought it would contain good news. I was shocked to find that under subhead B1 there is some £27 million unspent under the heading of social housing. I find it inexplicable in a week when we have revised statistics which show that there are 45,000 applicants for local authority housing, when the nearer one gets to Dublin, the greater the crisis. In Kildare the number of applicants has increased by 98%, in Meath by 140%, in Wicklow by 81%. Even if the Minister disputes the statistics, I cannot understand why, when it became known that the money would not be spent in Ballymun flats on a rehousing programme, the money could not have been diverted into turnkey operations, the purchase of houses, or grant-in-aid to voluntary housing organisations.

I can go through the Supplementary Estimate in forensic detail at the committee tomorrow, and I have many questions to raise. I appeal to the Minister to ensure that the saving on this subhead does not remain at the end of this year. If we were to look at emergency provision, I am sure there is no Deputy in this House who has not met Focus Ireland and the Salvation Army in relation to the plight of the homeless in urban Ireland, people who are just looking for basic shelter at night. Spaces for hostel type equipment are simply not available. It is open to the Minister – I have done it as Minister – to give grants-in-aid to organisations providing that they spend it subsequently in a vouched for way. The average industrial wage is £16,000 and prevailing house prices in Dublin for the type of house that new home buyers are looking for is £200,000. That is a multiple of six, but lending agencies will lend a maximum of only three times the annual wage. That means there is a huge affordability gap, and people who never before considered looking for social affordable housing must go on these waiting lists. Hence their spiralling growth over recent months. Think of the misery of three generations, or three families under one roof, of people living in mobile homes, or in very insecure conditions in private rented accommodation for which rents are spiralling because, with the implementation of the third Bacon report, the supply of rented accommodation is drying up as we speak. Instead of 33,000 units a year being built to meet demand, building has come to a standstill, and this problem will get much worse.

I am bitterly disappointed that, in the most socially critical area, the Minister has under-spent by £27 million. It is quite scandalous. I cannot understand why, when the Minister got a printout from the different assistant secretaries at the management committee meetings as to how spending was going at mid-year, he could not have given an instruction to divert money in this way. It is mismanagement of the Estimate. It is no use blaming local authorities for building only 900 of 4,500 houses. The money could have been diverted into turnkey operations whereby they could simply acquire an entire estate that is nearing completion or get a voluntary housing organisation to do it. I do not believe the money cannot be spent.

Throughout the country deep resentment is building up over the 11 public private partnership projects. It is not clear what the buyback period to the public sector will be for these toll roads. There is a feeling that the selection of by-passes and bridges for hard tolls is arbitrary and will discriminate economically against certain regions. Is there protection built into these contracts that will stop excessive profiteering if the amount of traffic exceeds what is projected? All previous forecasts have underestimated the amount of traffic. Has the Minister looked at the possibility of either a green tax across the board or shadow tolling as in the UK?

I look forward to dealing with this in a question and answer session tomorrow. It is a disgrace that given the housing crisis this Minister cannot spend the budget he has and is returning £27 million under social housing.

Mr. Gilmore

I join Deputy Yates in drawing attention to the fact that this Government has not managed to spend the money which was voted by this House for the provision of social housing in the current year, at a time when we have a housing crisis worse than we have ever had in the State. Focus Ireland has published two reports in the past two weeks. The first report on homelessness indicates that 1,200 children in Dublin are in bed and breakfast accommodation. The children must leave the bed and breakfasts in the morning and travel around the streets and parks of the city until 6 p.m. because they do not have any place to call home.

A second report published yesterday confirmed the suspicions of many that there has been a 17% increase in the number of people on local authority waiting lists. Some 45,000 families are seeking local authority accommodation and almost 60,000 families are on local authority waiting lists of one kind or another.

The problem of homelessness has reached crisis point. It is no exaggeration to state that some homeless people will not survive the winter. The findings of the report from Focus Ireland confirm much of what I and other Members are encountering in the course of our constituency work. I meet homeless elderly people and homeless children and their parents whose physical health is clearly deteriorating. I meet people whose situation is so desperate that they are bordering on being suicidal. The extent of homelessness in large urban areas is now a life and death issue. Instead of presenting a Supplementary Estimate in which he is saving money, the Minister should present a Supplementary Estimate which involves emergency measures being taken to deal with the problem of homelessness and lack of housing, backed up, if necessary, by emergency legislation.

The strategy on homelessness, published earlier this year by the Minister of State, Deputy Molloy, which is supported by the Labour Party, will take time to implement but, meanwhile, people have no place they can call home. The resources of local authorities, the State and its agencies, must be mobilised immediately in order to identify emergency accommodation for homeless people. Day facilities must also be provided for families and children who are currently forced to walk the streets on a daily basis. These people do not have anywhere to make a cup of tea or play with their children. I met a mother yesterday who tried to explain to me what it is like to keep a child strapped into a buggy all day long because there is nowhere for the child to play and nowhere to take the child on leaving the bed and breakfast in the morning.

This is the reality of homelessness in this prosperous economy. Yet, the Minister comes into the House this evening telling us that he was unable to spend the money allocated to his Department last year for the provision of housing. There is no point blaming the local authorities. It has been known for some time that local authorities have not produced their allocated housing output for a number of years. There is a variety of reasons for that, of which the Minister is well aware. These include the difficulty of obtaining land, staff shortages, the shortage of professional and project management skills in some local authorities—

Mr. Dempsey

—and objections from Labour Party councillors.

Mr. Gilmore

The Minister and the Minster of State with responsibility for housing have been aware of these difficulties for some time, yet they have not taken any action to address them. It is the Minister's responsibility to ensure that housing provision is made, that money is spent and that the moneys allocated for social housing by this House are converted into housing for those who need it.

Mr. Aylward

I welcome the Supplementary Estimate of £121 million which represents an increase in the region of 7% in the Department's expenditure. This Minister has been one of the most reforming Ministers with responsibility for the environment. I appreciate that there are huge numbers of people on housing waiting lists but this Minister has attempted to reform local government in the face of unnecessary blockages. The Minister has given the lead in regard to local government reform and we should follow his example. The Supplementary Estimate also involves a £23 million increase in funding to address homelessness.

I welcome the provision of an additional £80 million for the national road network. Excellent work is being done on the national road network and the commitments outlined in the national development plan, which will see more than £5 billion, measured in current prices, being invested in the network, are being met. My constituency has benefited in this regard with the designation of the N9 which runs through Carlow and Kilkenny.

Mr. Yates

The N11 has been downgraded.

Mr. Aylward

I am sure the Ceann Comhairle also welcomes the designation of the N9 although I respect his impartiality. The designation of the N9 includes vital work such as the construction of by-passes which have been sought for several years. Every constituency throughout the country will benefit from the funding provided under the national development plan.

The second river crossing in Waterford which will link up with the N9 is a very important development. Bellevue Port in south Kilkenny has great development potential. I am delighted that as recently as yesterday, the Minister included an allocation of £11 million to Kilkenny County Council, under the £45 million allocation for water and waste services, in regard to the south Kilkenny water supply scheme. The contract documents submitted by the council in regard to the drilling and testing of exploratory bore holes have been approved. This will result in great developments in the south-east region – south Kilkenny, Waterford, Wexford, south Tipperary etc. In light of the announcement made by the Waterford Harbour Board during the week to the effect that it intends to extend Bellevue Port and to replace a recently damaged crane with a new one, the Minister's announcement was particularly timely. There is also a need for electricity supply to be provided in the south-east region and I hope the Minister's colleagues will take this on board.

I appeal to the Minister to provide additional funding for the five year county road programme. We must continue to provide funding for this measure, particularly as the recent bad weather has damaged some of the good work which has been carried out to date.

The Minister had the foresight to increase the grants provided to group water schemes to more than £5,000. I urge him to extend this increase to the group sewerage schemes as there is a great demand for such schemes in smaller towns and villages. I am aware of the development of public private partnerships in this area but group schemes have done tremendous work over the years and the Minister should provide an incentive for them to provide necessary infrastructure. It is unfortunate that we do not have more time, but I welcome the Supplementary Estimate. It is a continuing part of the good work the Minister has been doing, and I commend him on it. I hope that by 2002 he will have made many more advances.

Mr. Timmins

I wish to share time with Deputy McCormack. Deputy Aylward mentioned upgrading the N9, and Deputy Yates said this would lead to the downgrading of the N11. I ask the Minister to examine the possibility of joining the N11 and the N9. There is no major access from the south-east to the midlands, and perhaps in future a route from Arklow to Carlow could be examined.

The IMF recently published a report which stated that with respect to house prices no industrial country in the past 20 years has experienced increases on the scale of Ireland without suffering a subsequent fall. It is estimated that since 1994 new house prices have increased by 118% and second hand houses by 156%. I am not necessarily saying the Government is to blame for this. Many people will dispute the various percentages, but the fact is that house prices have increased dramatically which has given rise to many people joining the public waiting lists who heretofore would not have been on them.

I realise the Minister has provided much funding under subhead B1 for housing, with an increase of £260 million, which is commendable. However, there is still a problem. Previous speakers have pointed out that £27 million was returned so we must realise there is something wrong with the structures. What is the point in giving money to local authorities if they cannot spend it?

The Minister of State, Deputy Molloy, last week told local authorities to crank up, but that is not satisfactory. Something must be done. The Minister is aware there has been a difficulty for the past few years. By my reckoning there are 90 independent statutory housing authorities, from Skibbereen to Leitrim and from Sligo to Enniscorthy, which is ridiculous. They are only building approximately 60% of their allocation. In 1999, with increased demand and funding, they only built 2,900 houses, the percentage dropping by half. There is something radically wrong and while I do not know how the Minister will solve it he should look at the concept of streamlining these authorities. Is there a case for a national housing authority? It is very difficult for a Minister with responsibility for housing to get anything done.

In recent days the Minister is reported as talking about giving greater housing contracts and that it is hoped 25,000 houses will be built between now and 2003. However, I do not see how that can be done. Deputy Yates proposed that perhaps local authorities would buy out private housing estates, which could be a solution.

We are very short of research in terms of a national housing authority. Statistics from the Department of the Environment and Local Government, and the Goodbody report, show the various units available in December 1999 and December 2005. The Bacon report also refers to these statistics, but there is a contradiction in the figures, which must be examined. Local authorities have no information in terms of housing units, and it is important that such information is gathered.

Mr. McCormack

I have a simple request for the Minister. I ask him to show some real concern for the waste management efforts of local authorities. This week Galway city, for example, is starting a separation and recycling pilot scheme in 650 houses. While this entails much extra work for householders, they are enthusiastically taking part and we expect to have it city wide within a year. At last night's meeting of the corporation there was a proposal to increase refuse charges from £120 to £170, an increase of 41%. If that happens, it will simply kill the efforts of the corporation and the people of Galway in terms of recycling as they will say they are being charged £50 for their extra efforts.

An increase of £50 will bring in an estimated additional £800,000 for the corporation in revenue. If the Minister wants to help local authorities which are serious about recycling he should make a special grant of £800,000, which is not so much in the context of £121 million, available to Galway Corporation to enable it maintain its service charges at last year's levels so we do not kill the voluntary effort, and the effort of the corporation and its officials, in implementing a recycling project which will eventually save us from complete dependence on landfill, and which will help us reach the Minister's target of 47% in terms of recycling.

Cecilia Keaveney

I am delighted to have a brief opportunity to raise issues of infrastructure and access, which I have been trying unsuccessfully to raise for the past few weeks, both by way of parliamentary questions and on the Adjournment.

This £121 million is an increase of approximately 7% on the net expenditure provision in the Minister's Revised Estimate. The additional £80 million for the national road network, £45 million for water and waste water services and £30 million for the Exchequer contribution for the local government fund will be extremely important.

As I am not on the select committee I will use this opportunity to raise a couple of issues deemed pertinent to the debate by my constituents. As the Minister will be aware Inishowen has a huge investment of over £27 million in the Pollan Dam scheme which is of great significance to the infrastructure of the region. However, we have very important issues that remain outstanding in terms of connecting those residing closest to the scheme. I ask that when the appropriate applications reach the Minister's table they are expedited – I know I can rely on the Minister's support on this issue. Similarly, I appreciate the great strides that are being made in relation to waste water and urge the Minister to continue the advancement of schemes which have been prioritised by the county council and on which the Minister has already sanctioned works.

The most important issues are related to the reference by the Minister to the money sought in this Supplementary Estimate progressing the national development plan's national road network. It is no secret that we in the north-west, while welcoming the concept of improvements to the N2 and A5 are extremely unhappy with the national development plan. With a county which has had job losses only matched in proportion by the lack of job creation, the Donegal task force pointed out our difficulties with access – they narrowed our problems to access. A cross-Border group made up of all sections of political opinion united on the need for improvements in the N2 and A5. We have had the Minister and various Ministers from the North of Ireland commend the studies that have been launched outlining why the access should be improved and how this could be done. Indeed I was recently informed that we lost a very large potential employer to another county due to the road infrastructural deficit. This is simply not acceptable.

At a time when we see here today an investment of over £5 billion measured in current prices we along the A5-N2, must gain what the Dublin-Belfast, Dublin-Galway, Dublin-Limerick, Dublin-Cork and Dublin-Waterford routes are gaining, that is, we must have a rapidly delivered portion of those 600 kilometres of motorway or dual carriageway. We must not be deemed second class citizens with a mid D level of service when every other geographical direction around the country gains a C level of service. We must have our case reviewed by the NRA given that the statistics prove that the level of road use is extremely high. We must have real improvements to a journey that used to take 3.5 hours and which now takes an average of five hours.

It is galling for public representatives and citizens of Donegal alike to listen to the significant improvements that will be made all over the country while we, the only geographical location to have access pointed out as its main difficulty in terms of tourism, job creation and social ease of movement, are fed the crumbs of some single lane by-passes. When the trains are not running people should stop and appreciate how the people of Donegal feel; they should note that train strikes do not affect us.

We talk of a national spatial strategy but I sense we would not need too many consultants to point out our deficiencies in achieving a true spatial dimension to development within the country.

I have already raised the issue with the Taoiseach, the Tánaiste, the Minister for Finance and others and I reiterate that we have a right to a proportion of the 600 kilometres of motorway or dual carriageway. The Minister has the funds as outlined here this evening and he is willing to develop the country. Too many experts have indicated that access is our key difficulty. We now want the Minister to unlock the north-west as he alone holds the key.

I welcome the Supplementary Estimate.

Minister for Education and Science (Dr. Woods)

The Supplementary Estimate for Education and Science shows that during the current year additional funding has been allocated beyond an already generous provision and has been targeted at a number of welcome developments. This Government has made education a top priority and these Supplementary Estimates are further evidence of our commitment. These Estimates which total £192.492 million arise mainly for the following reasons. I intend to arrange for an early payment of capitation grants for primary and secondary schools in respect of the 2000-01 school year. These payments would normally be made in January-February of next year. Capitation grants totalling almost £38 million will be paid before Christmas in order to improve the cashflow of schools, many of which have had to incur higher than usual costs in recent months. I wish to make an additional £17 million available in capital funding for second level schools this year to maintain the momentum of improvement in this sector. This will bring the allocation to more than £120 million this year. This is a four-fold increase over the 1997 Estimates allocation provided for by the previous Government and enables major progress to be made in developing and modernising second level school buildings.

Some £8 million is required for the purchase of additional land by Dublin City University to enable it expand the research element of its activity. An additional sum of £5.8 million is required to meet the cost of extra special needs assistants in primary schools. Since taking office this Government has undertaken an unprecedented level of development in special education services. Arising from a Government decision in October 1998, all children with special needs within the primary system now have an automatic entitlement to a response appropriate to their disability and location. More than 1,400 additional special needs assistants have been sanctioned to date. I am seeking an extra provision of £4.5 million to fund the cost of additional resource teacher posts and to provide teacher posts for the primary education of children of foreign nationals, refugees and asylum seekers. I introduced a new scheme in February 2000 for this purpose to cater for each group of 15 pupils with significant English language deficits.

In addition, £2 million is required to fund improvements for the first level caretaker-clerical assistants scheme. The extension of the scheme is of particular benefit to small schools with enrolments of 60 pupils or less. I intend to provide an additional £8 million for special initiatives such as once-off development grants to first and second level schools. I will provide details of these grants shortly. The remainder of the Supplementary Estimates relate mainly to technical factors involving demand led expenditure subheads and appropriations-in-aid.

In summary, additional provision is required for the teacher pension subheads due to considerably increased numbers of retirements for technical accounting factors related to the earlier payment date in December for teacher pensions. There are shortfalls in the third level free fees provision, mainly due to increased enrolments and there are unanticipated additional superannuation costs in respect of third level institutions.

I am also providing for the funding of pensions for former Carysfort staff who are now working in the third level sector. The receipts from the European Social Fund, now projected to be received by my Department as appropriations-in-aid before the end of 2000, are approximately £88 million lower than originally estimated. The Supplementary Estimate rectifies this shortfall which is due principally to administrative delays within the EU Commission. Overall, these Supplementary Estimates represent significant extra funding being made available to all areas of education. They underpin an unprecedented level of funding for developing and improving current and capital provision and allow for increased allocations for pupils with special needs.

The additional activities which these Supplementary Estimates will provide will serve as an excellent foundation for further improvements which we will be able to implement over the coming year.

Mr. Bradford

I welcome these Supplementary Estimates. It would be remiss of us if we did not comment on the fact that the Supplementary Estimates are being introduced at a time of almost unprecedented chaos in the education sector. The Minister referred to this issue in great detail earlier this afternoon. The Minister is aware, as is every Member, of deep and growing anger throughout the country arising from the teachers' strike. I hope he does not hope that parental and student anger will solve the problem. The onus is on the Minister and his Department to solve the problem. I received a number of tele phone calls over the weekend from concerned parents. This is not something which was happening last year.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy need not dwell on the matter. It is not in order to have a continuation—

Mr. Bradford

I will not dwell further except to reiterate that the Minister must apply his mind to grasping the nettle and getting the matter under control, otherwise between now and examinations time, the whole education system will be in chaos.

I welcome the additional funding for special needs, resource teaching and remedial teachers. We have debated with his predecessors the failure of Ministers in all Governments down through the years to put sufficient funding into this vital sector. Anything the Minister does to improve the position is welcome. Deputies are aware that in almost every national school there are further demands for resource teaching, remedial teaching and special needs assistants. I hope the Minister has a mechanism in place to investigate these requests more speedily. Some of the requests have been made for years. Students need immediate help.

The Minister referred to additional capital funding for second level schools. This is welcome. At a time when the economy is booming and when the Minister for Finance apparently does not know what to do with his money I trust the Minister is making stronger pleas for funding for the capital programme. If we do not put the required capital resources in place during the time of the Celtic tiger we will be unable to do so when there is a downturn in the economy. I welcome whatever additional funding can be provided in this regard.

I welcome the Minister's initiative in regard to the Dublin City University project. This is the former NIHE, Dublin, which has made huge strides in the past decade. The Minister referred to the additional funding being provided for third level grants. It would be silly of us on this side to do anything other than welcome that proposal. We have debated the whole issue of maintenance grants on Question Time recently and the inadequate level of maintenance grants. I shall dwell on it briefly. The student unions, students and parents are lobbying us to put in place a proper system of maintenance grants for third level students. At a time when the average student in Dublin or Cork is paying £60 or £70 per week for accommodation, total grant aid to that student is, at best, £49 per week. One does not have to be an honours maths student to know it does not add up. The Minister will have to apply not only his mind but the might of his Department's financial resources to resolve the issue over the next 12 months.

Obviously I welcome the additional moneys provided and hope the serious problems in the Minister's Department, beginning with the indus trial relations problem will be dealt with in the immediate future because next month will be much too late.

Ms Shortall

I welcome the additional funding for education. We are all aware of the shortcomings in such funding and much more is needed than is provided for in the Estimates. I was a little dissatisfied with the Minister's explanation of the background to this Supplementary Estimate. I accept it was difficult to foresee extra demands on funding in some areas but it should have been foreseen in others.

On capitation, at this stage in the country's development and given the buoyancy in the economy, surely it is time for the State to meet the full cost of education at both primary and secondary level. It is appalling that a great amount of students', parents' and teachers' time, particularly principals' time, is taken up with fund-raising in school. It is intolerable that schools must run cake sales, sales of work, sponsored walks and so on to try to raise the money to meet the day-to-day running costs of schools. I am not referring to sophisticated computers or additional language facilities but to schools struggling on a day-to-day basis to meet the cost of heating, cleaning, paying insurance bills and so on. That is not acceptable in this day and age.

The Minister spoke about schools having a cash flow problem and that this is the reason he is bringing forward payment of the capitation grant. I have no doubt schools have cash flow problems but I am not sure the Minister's approach will solve anything. What is needed is a substantial increase in the capitation grant. The increases provided for in the Estimates published last week are miserly. The increase in capitation grants, particularly for second level schools, will not keep pace with inflation in the coming year. Schools are already strapped for cash and the net effect of the small increases in capitation grants will result in the overall income for schools being reduced next year.

A couple of aspects of the under-funding are having a very detrimental effect on the education system. Many pupils and their teachers are being put under financial pressure because they are expected to make the so-called voluntary contribution. We should not depend on people to pay from £100 to £200 in voluntary contributions, given the money which is available to the State. This imposes huge financial hardship on many families who cannot afford this contribution. Almost every organisation and industry is being provided with grant-aid, yet the State is not prepared to pay for free education. Free education is a myth because it does not exist. Education is provided on the backs of pupils, parents and teachers who must devote ever increasing amounts of time to fund-raising. That is not acceptable at a time when more attention should be paid to meeting the educational, social and psychological needs of students.

A small sum of £2 million is provided for support services such as caretakers and clerical assistants. This will not even enable schools to pay the minimum wage to support staff. A great many schools have the equivalent of a half post as caretaker or secretarial assistant. The result is that principals, who should be involving themselves with educational issues relating to their pupils, are spending time cleaning up after drinking sessions in the school yard the previous night, as is all too common nowadays, dealing with blocked toilets, trying to ensure the school is opened up properly and locked in the evening and carrying out minor repairs and maintenance work around the school. Principals are acting as handymen in many schools because of the inadequacy of the caretaker service. In relation to secretarial services, there are huge implications in recent legislation for schools in terms of administration and the back-up services are not being provided.

I agree with the Estimates but the Minister should go much further to introduce a quality education service to which all children are entitled.

Mr. Boylan

I have no difficulty with the Estimate. However, it would be remiss of a Deputy in the course of a debate on education not to refer to the industrial dispute which is currently taking place.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Chair has pointed out it is not in order to continue the debate on Private Notice Questions. It would be completely out of order to have a repeat of the debate which took place today.

Mr. Boylan

I wish to ask the Minister to indicate if he will reciprocate a gesture by the teachers that they will exempt leaving certificate students from any further action. That would be a step in the right direction. The Minister will have to lead on this issue because the education system is falling asunder as a result of what is happening.

On the extra funding, we have an excellent education system which must be protected. The Minister must do his duty so that students will not suffer. There are many shortfalls in the Estimate with which the Minister must deal. I am particularly concerned about children with special needs. The system works fine for children who can partake in it and who can progress in the normal way. I am always impressed when I visit national schools at the array of computer equipment in these schools, which is excellent. However, children with special needs are not receiving the attention they need. These children are entitled to be treated equally, for which we should make no apology. Funding should be made available for qualified people to help these children. Early investment in this area will pay rich dividends in later life for these children who are entitled to the same opportunities as other able-bodied children. Extra remedial teachers, speech therapists and occupational therapists should be employed on a domiciliary basis. Handicapped children would achieve much more if teachers visited them in the comfort and privacy of their own homes.

Voluntary organisations are trying to offer some assistance in this regard while the State is opting out of its responsibilities. This is not acceptable. The cost of employing people with qualifications in this area may be considerable, nevertheless, that is the least parents of such children are entitled to. Have Members any understanding of the stress, turmoil and extra attention needed in the home of a child with a disability? Many of these families believe the State does not care. This is a result of an ignorance of the need and help that should be provided, which must be addressed.

I spoke previously to the Minister in this regard and I was recently afforded an appointment with my party leader to discuss issues in relation to people with disabilities. I receive telephone calls from parents who are distressed and in a limbo, which is not acceptable.

The countries excellent education system has enabled young people to take up top quality jobs. As a result multi-national industries are attracted to the country. There was a recent announcement in my county of Cavan that a major multi-national company would be setting up an industry there. I am proud that our people are qualified to take up these top level jobs. However, we must not take it for granted that the system will work by simply throwing money at it without addressing the needs that exist. There are needs in relation to third level students for whom the grant is not sufficient to meet their basic daily requirements. Another difficulty is that the grant is provided too late in the school year. In some cases students in third level colleges and in "digs" away from home have still not received their grant.

They are still being processed. The Minister cannot make the excuse that students did not apply in time. They applied in good time but the process is delayed because so many questions are asked about income limits. Children are away from home, without money in their pockets and vulnerable. This is particularly true of girls.

Last night a parent spoke to me about the book grant for national school pupils. Having received the grant, the parent received a bill for £30. There is little understanding of the rise in the cost of school books. The level of the grant does not bear any relation to the cost incurred. I hope the Minister will consider these comments.

Will the Minister come out of his bunker, meet the teachers and not allow further discrimination against young people who will sit the leaving certificate next June?

Mr. McGrath

Earlier today the Minister heard the views of the House on the teachers' strike. I hope he will make the necessary telephone call before the day is out. It is important that the Minster takes the initiative and puts the matter in hand.

There are four different types of second level schools receiving different levels of financial support. There are voluntary secondary schools, community schools, community colleges and comprehensive schools. The Department of Education and Science sanctions a discriminatory system whereby children at different types of school receive a different level of capitation grant. For example, the capitation grant paid to community colleges is far in excess of that paid to voluntary secondary schools. That is a serious bone of contention among voluntary secondary schools which provided education for a long time with very little support. There is no excuse for having different levels of capitation payment. Why are there different levels? I hope the Minister will not respond by saying this is traditional. He is too bright to hide behind such an excuse. There may be a tradition but the Minister must see that if a tradition is wrong it should be changed. I hope he will address this issue.

Voluntary secondary schools receive a caretaking grant of between £8,000 and £9,000, although it would be impossible to employ a caretaker for that amount. The level of bureaucracy attached to running a school, and the amount of correspondence and documentation to be dealt with necessitates a full-time secretary. There is a major shortfall in the funding available for the employment of a secretary in voluntary secondary schools while community schools and community colleges do not appear to have any shortage of secretaries. This discriminates against pupils and it is they who will suffer in the long-term.

My colleague, Deputy Boylan raised the question of children with disabilities. More and more children with disabilities are choosing to attend mainstream schools. This brings a major difficulty for teachers and boards of management. If a child with a disability enrols in a small rural school, difficulties arise in accessing additional support services. The school finds it difficult to find out what help is available from the Department to facilitate the child and what capital grants are available to make the school wheelchair accessible, adapt toilets and so on. Quite some time ago the Minister and I were members of a committee which discussed these questions. It was suggested that a booklet be prepared in the Department of Education and Science which would list the facilities available with the names of officials in the Department who could assist in putting them in place. I do not know if this information has been made available yet. From my experience of schools, it does not appear to be. School principals should not have to reinvent the wheel every time they are faced with these difficulties. When they contact the Department they appear to be pushed from Billy to Jack and it takes a long time to secure the services needed.

Mr. Stanton

I welcome any increased spending on education. It is important that we invest resources in education at all levels. I support the Minister in any action he might take to assist pri mary education. We must begin there. The Minister knows that if a problem is not addressed at primary level it becomes greater as the child moves up through the education system, if the child survives. Will the Minister strengthen the psychological supports and the support services for speech therapy and for dyspraxia, dyslexia, attention deficit disorder and other conditions which present at primary school level and which teachers can identify very early in the primary school.

Has the Minister carried out a review of the home school community liaison programme and has he plans to extend the programme at the primary school level? This initiative was introduced a number of years ago and has the potential to be highly successful. The programme is intended to identify difficulties early on, support parents and involve the community in supporting parents and schools. This area needs more resourcing and support from the Government. I ask the Minister to take a personal interest in this area. It needs a ministerial overview.

I welcome grants for third level and further education. We all know the stresses suffered by third level students whose grants are patently inadequate. Will the Minister to impress on the Minister for Finance the importance of making further funding available to assist students at third level? Students from rural areas who have to live in Dublin, for example, while studying at third level face astronomical costs and enormous difficulties in finding accommodation. The income level at which grants are given and the amount of the grants are both too low. Will the Minister raise the qualifying ceiling and increase the amount of third level grants.

There may be advantages in a scheme of student loans. Could a scheme be introduced whereby financial institutions would give students loans at a reduced rate of interest? This happens in other countries.

Question put and agreed to.