Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 26 Jun 2003

Vol. 569 No. 5

Order of Business.

The Tánaiste

It is proposed to take No. 15, motion re National Council for Special Education (Establishment) Order 2003, back from committee; No. 22a, Taxi Regulation Bill 2003 – Committee and Remaining Stages; No. 3 – Protection of Employees (Fixed-Term Work) Bill 2003 [Seanad]– Second Stage; and No. 31 – Residential Tenancies Bill 2003 – Second Stage (resumed). It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that the Dáil shall sit later than 4.45 p.m. tonight and business shall be interrupted not later than 10 p.m. and the sitting shall be suspended from 1.30 p.m. to 2 p.m.; No. 15 shall be decided without debate; the Committee and Remaining Stages of No. 22a shall be taken today and the proceedings thereon shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after two hours and 30 minutes by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Transport; and Second Stage of No. 3 shall be taken today and the proceedings thereon shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 10 p.m.

The Dáil shall sit tomorrow at 10.30 a.m. and shall adjourn not later than 4 p.m. There shall be no Order of Business and, accordingly, the following business shall be transacted in the following order: No. 23, statements on audit of health structures, Prospectus report, and the commission into health funding, Brennan report, to conclude at 1.30 p.m. if not previously concluded; and No. 24 – statements on the World Trade Organisation talks, Cancún, to conclude at 4 p.m. if not previously concluded. The following arrangements shall apply in each case: The statements of a Minister or Minister of State and of the main spokespersons for the Fine Gael Party, the Labour Party and the Technical Group, who shall be called upon in that order, shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case; the statements of each other Member called upon shall not exceed ten minutes in each case and Members may share time. On No. 23, the Minister for Health and Children shall be called upon to make a statement in reply which shall not exceed ten minutes and on No. 24, the Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment shall be called upon to make a statement in reply which shall not exceed five minutes.

An Ceann Comhairle

There are five proposals to be put to the House. Is the proposal for the late sitting agreed to? Agreed.

Mr. Stagg

Should Question Time be listed in the Order?

An Ceann Comhairle

Question Time today is covered by Standing Orders. Is the proposal to take No. 15, motion re National Council for Special Education (Establishment) Order 2003, without debate agreed?

Mr. Stagg

This motion has been referred to committee. Has the House received a report from the committee and, if so, what is its content?

The Tánaiste

I presume all parties in the House were represented on the committee. Whether a formalised report has been made, I am not certain. I understand that everybody participated in the committee's discussion of this matter.

Mr. Stagg

We do not know what the committee did. It may have decided to reject the order. As usual, we have been given no indication of the committee's wishes or conclusions on the matter. At meetings of the Whips, we have been seeking to find a methodology to ensure some form of report is made available to the House from a committee when matters are referred back. The question before us now is whether it is to be taken without debate but when the formal matter comes before the House we should be given some type of report.

Mr. Durkan

The Whips have discussed this issue on numerous occasions and it was indicated to us at the Whips meetings that there would be some developments in this area. All that is required when an issue is referred to a committee and returned to the House by the committee, is that there should be some indication of the committee's opinion. That is a simple thing and it should be done. In that way it will not be necessary to discuss it at this level in future. Is it possible to get a resolution of this matter?

Mr. Gormley

I agree with Deputy Stagg. We should get this much earlier—

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy is adding a little confusion to the matter. We are discussing the proposal.

Mr. Gormley

If business is to be conducted properly in the House, the Government should facilitate the Opposition by producing the schedule much earlier.

Mr. Durkan

The Tánaiste is about to answer, a Cheann Comhairle.

An Ceann Comhairle

My understanding is that the committee is obliged to consider what is sent to it but there is no obligation on the committee to send a report to the House. That would demand a change in Standing Orders.

The Tánaiste

Discussions are taking place with the clerks of the committees on this matter and they will be ongoing over the summer. At present, it is not possible to have those reports.

Mr. Durkan

I do not want to argue about this all the time—

An Ceann Comhairle

Sorry, Deputy, we cannot have a debate on it. Only one brief comment from each party is permitted. I must put the question.

Mr. Durkan

One brief question, a Cheann Comhairle. We have raised this constantly over the last 12 months. Why does it require a debate with the clerks over the summer?

An Ceann Comhairle

That does not arise. I must put the question.

Question, "That the proposal for dealing with No. 5 without debate be agreed", put and declared carried.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the proposal for dealing with No. 22a, Committee and Remaining Stages of the Taxi Regulation Bill 2003, agreed to?

Mr. Eamon Ryan

Transport legislation is a bit like waiting for Dublin buses in that one does not see anything for years and then three or four Bills arrive at the same time. It is unacceptable that, having barely finished Second Stage of this important Bill, we are putting it through Committee and Remaining Stages in two and a half hours today. This legislation will have huge significance throughout the country and it is not appropriate to rush it through the House so quickly when we have just completed Second Stage.

Mr. Stagg

Unusually, I rise to support a guillotine on a Bill. The Labour Party believes there is a degree of urgency with this legislation. It has been well debated so we support the guillotine.

Mr. Callely

A bit more of that would be helpful.

Question, "That the proposal for dealing with No. 22a be agreed to”, put and declared carried.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the proposal for dealing with No. 3, conclusion of Second Stage of the Protection of Employees (Fixed-Term Work) Bill 2003, agreed to? Agreed.

Mr. Stagg

I wish to put on record our opposition to a guillotine on this Bill. It is not necessary.

Mr. Gormley

We have no problem with it, a Cheann Comhairle.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the proposal regarding the arrangements for the taking of statements on Friday agreed to?

Mr. R. Bruton

I object to this procedure of arranging debates but giving no opportunity to ask questions of either the Taoiseach or the Tánaiste or to have Question Time or divisions. It is particularly disconcerting that such an important document as the health strategy will be debated in the House without any opportunity to ask the Minister questions about the proposals. Many people are surprised that there can be serious reform without touching the size of the bureaucracy and that this will deliver more efficiency. There should be a serious committee-style debate in which Deputies have an opportunity to ask Ministers about the proposals rather than have this bland, anodyne arrangement of statements being read into the record, which will not improve our understanding of or our capacity to reform the health services.

Mr. Rabbitte

When Deputy Bruton and I raised this matter on 19 June, the Minister for Defence, Deputy Michael Smith, who was taking the Order of Business said: "Deputy Richard Bruton and Deputy Rabbitte were both Ministers in the rainbow Administration which sat on Fridays when there was no Order of Business. . . ". I have had this matter researched and discovered there was an Order of Business on Fridays until 1999. I do not know if the Tánaiste remembers the dim, distant, dismal days when she sat on these benches making this type of argument—

Mr. McGinley

Some of us remember it.

Mr. O'Donoghue

It is off in the fogs of time.

Mr. Rabbitte

She is not the only one in a fog. Can the Tánaiste assure the House that this will be the last term in which the Government will seek to use Fridays for a sanitised sitting of the Dáil in which there is no Order of Business, no questions posed and no opportunity for divisions? It is merely a stratagem of the Government to give the impression of adding to the number of sitting days. It is not acceptable practice that Members should come to this Chamber on Thursday mornings and order the business for the following Friday in this fashion and that even the minimal opportunity to raise questions on the Order of Business is denied them. That was not the practice up to 1999.

Mr. Gormley

I agree with the previous speakers that there is a lack of accountability on Fridays. Last week I raised with the Government the fact that there are only three hours to debate an extremely important issue, namely, the health crisis. The Chief Whip seemed to find this amusing but the electorate will not find it amusing, particularly people who are waiting for beds or who cannot get treatment. It is important to send the signal that we are taking this issue seriously and giving a mere three hours to the Prospectus and Brennan reports does not send a positive signal to the electorate. It means, of course, that smaller parties, including the Green Party, will get less than eight minutes to make a contribution. That is not satisfactory. I ask that the time allocation be extended this evening and tomorrow. We need it to discuss these issues.

It is also important that more time is given to the Cancún debate. Young people have a great interest in the issue of globalisation but we are giving a mere two and a half hours to this debate. If we are to reassert the primacy of politics and not give more power to the WTO, we need to debate this issue at length. People need to see that we take globalisation seriously but allocating two and a half hours to the debate will not achieve that.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

The three-hour opportunity to discuss both the Prospectus and Professor Niamh Brennan's reports tomorrow morning is inadequate. It does not facilitate full participation and will exclude many Members of the House who will not have an opportunity to speak. That is regrettable. The importance of both reports, as well as the forthcoming Hanly report, occupies not only the thoughts of many Members of the House but is also the critical focus of the wider community and the media. What has been arranged is not a debate but statements on these matters. There will be no actual debate or exchange of views and no opportunity to question the Minister on the detail of the reports and his intentions. It is most regrettable.

I appeal to the Tánaiste to allow for an extension of time to accommodate greater participation and an opportunity to engage with the Minister, which is the critical element missing in what is proposed. Regarding the World Trade Organisation conference in Cancún in Mexico in September, these are linked in a single proposition, but I am equally concerned that two and a half hours will not allow for full participation, which we critically need. If we are extending time into Friday sittings surely the raison d'être for that is to accommodate greater participation. The World Trade Organisation talks in Cancún will be a critical element in the development of the central focus of the WTO at this time. There is a disparate range of opinion. The Tánaiste's analysis is not reflective of—

An Ceann Comhairle

Sorry, Deputy, it is not appropriate to go into your contribution for the debate tomorrow.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

I will appeal to the Tánaiste to listen very carefully to the views of the Opposition because whatever the Government represents, it is imperative that it takes on board Opposition views which reflects the majority opinion outside this House.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy can express those views in the debate tomorrow.

Mr. M. Higgins

Before the Tánaiste replies may I make the point that—

An Ceann Comhairle

Only one member of each party is entitled to make a brief comment under Standing Order 26. We cannot open up a debate and allow several members of each party—

Mr. M. Higgins

I am not opening up a debate.

An Ceann Comhairle

Sorry, the Deputy's leader, Deputy Rabbitte, has already made a contribution on behalf of the party on tomorrow's business.

Mr. M. Higgins

I am entitled to make a point of order.

An Ceann Comhairle

A point of order, yes.

Mr. M. Higgins

It is inappropriate to contain items Nos. 23 and 24 when No. 24 concerns a matter which we have had on the Order of Business, that is, the promise by Government of a debate and negotiation on the basis of a question and answer session, which is not provided for under No. 24. I would like the Tánaiste to address that. Three Ministers will go to Cancún, and how are we to know that there is consistency between the positions of those Ministers?

The Tánaiste

On the question of the WTO, the commitment to a debate arose during Question Time some time ago and since then the matter has been discussed in a committee of this House. As the Deputies are aware, Ireland will be participating under the EU umbrella and clearly it is important that we have an opportunity tomorrow to hear, as the committee did, the Irish and EU perspectives. We want to hear what the Opposition perspectives are. There will be many more debates during—

Mr. M. Higgins

That is not what we were promised in the Dáil.

An Tánaiste

This is with regard to the WTO—

Mr. M. Higgins

I am talking about the WTO. There is an Irish position.

An Ceann Comhairle

Allow the Tánaiste to speak without interruption, please.

The Tánaiste

There is an Irish position within the overall EU position, as the Deputy well knows. We will be negotiating as part of—

Mr. M. Higgins

That is the first positive statement of that.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Michael D. Higgins should allow the Tánaiste to speak without interruption.

The Tánaiste

—the EU, as the Deputy is well aware. Friday sittings provide an opportunity to have a focused debate on various matters, particularly reports that are not directly related to legislation. Over the next two years there will be major legislation to put into effect some of the proposals that are mentioned in these reports and there will be ongoing opportunities for Deputies to participate. The commitment for tomorrow is to give Opposition spokespeople and the Government an opportunity to make some overview comments on these two reports. There will be other reports such as the Hanly report and a Deloitte & Touche report into certain aspects of the health service, and after the consultation period of three months the Minister for Health and Children will come back to the House with proposals. On Friday sittings, they provide a single focus on the topics that are agreed for that day.

Mr. Stagg

They are usually Bills on Second Stage.

The Tánaiste

They are on Second Stage where there is general agreement and where—

Mr. Stagg

They are sanitised debates on Second Stage.

The Tánaiste

I do not accept that.

An Ceann Comhairle

I would prefer if the Tánaiste did not answer the Deputy.

The Tánaiste

In response to Deputy Rabbitte's point about the Order of Business—

Mr. M. Higgins

Why will the Tánaiste not give an answer on the proposal for a question and answer session?

An Ceann Comhairle

Will Deputy Michael D. Higgins allow the Tánaiste to conclude her remarks?

The Tánaiste

We have had lots of question and answer sessions on the WTO here at Question Time.

Mr. M. Higgins

We have not.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Michael D. Higgins—

The Tánaiste

We certainly have. Deputy Howlin and I engaged in questions here only a few weeks ago on WTO matters, as Deputy Higgins knows.

Mr. Gormley

Why not extend the time?

Question put: "That the proposal for dealing with Friday's sitting be agreed to."

Tá

Ahern, Dermot.Ahern, Michael.Ahern, Noel.Andrews, Barry.Ardagh, Seán.Aylward, Liam.Brady, Johnny.Brady, Martin.Brennan, Seamus.Browne, John.Callanan, Joe.Callely, Ivor.Carey, Pat.Carty, John.Cassidy, Donie.Cooper-Flynn, Beverley.Coughlan, Mary.Cregan, John.Cullen, Martin.Curran, John.de Valera, Síle.Dempsey, Tony.Devins, Jimmy.Ellis, John.Finneran, Michael.Fleming, Seán.Glennon, Jim.Grealish, Noel.Hanafin, Mary.Harney, Mary.Haughey, Seán.Hoctor, Máire.Jacob, Joe.Kelly, Peter.Killeen, Tony.

Kirk, Seamus.Kitt, Tom.Lenihan, Brian.Lenihan, Conor.McCreevy, Charlie.McDaid, James.McDowell, Michael.McEllistrim, Thomas.McGuinness, John.Moloney, John.Moynihan, Donal.Moynihan, Michael.Mulcahy, Michael.Nolan, M.J.Ó Cuív, Éamon.Ó Fearghaíl, Seán.O'Connor, Charlie.O'Donnell, Liz.O'Donoghue, John.O'Donovan, Denis.O'Flynn, Noel.O'Keeffe, Ned.O'Malley, Fiona.O'Malley, Tim.Parlon, Tom.Power, Peter.Roche, Dick.Ryan, Eoin.Smith, Brendan.Smith, Michael.Treacy, Noel.Wilkinson, Ollie.Woods, Michael.Wright, G. V.

Níl

Boyle, Dan.Breen, Pat.Broughan, Thomas P.Bruton, Richard.Connaughton, Paul.Costello, Joe.Crawford, Seymour.Crowe, Seán.Cuffe, Ciarán.Deenihan, Jimmy.Durkan, Bernard J.English, Damien.Enright, Olwyn.Ferris, Martin.Gilmore, Eamon.Gogarty, Paul.Gormley, John.Harkin, Marian.Healy, Seamus.Higgins, Joe.Higgins, Michael D.Hogan, Phil.Kehoe, Paul.McCormack, Padraic.McGinley, Dinny.McGrath, Finian.

McGrath, Paul.McHugh, Paddy.McManus, Liz.Mitchell, Gay.Mitchell, Olivia.Morgan, Arthur.Moynihan-Cronin, Breeda.Murphy, Gerard.Naughten, Denis.Neville, Dan.Noonan, Michael.Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.O'Keeffe, Jim.Pattison, Seamus.Penrose, Willie.Rabbitte, Pat.Ring, Michael.Ryan, Eamon.Ryan, Seán.Sherlock, Joe.Stagg, Emmet.Stanton, David.Timmins, Billy.Upton, Mary.Wall, Jack.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Hanafin and Fleming; Níl, Deputies Durkan and Stagg.

Question declared carried.

Mr. R. Bruton

I would like to raise two issues on the Order of Business. First, Deputies will be aware that the talks on farm prices and the CAP review ended in Brussels early this morning, coming after a year in which farm incomes fell by 8%. We are now faced with the prospect of dairy incomes falling by as much as 25% over the next few years. I ask that the Tánaiste make arrangements for the Minister for Agriculture and Food, Deputy Walsh, to come into the House, perhaps next week, to allow Deputies to question him about the arrangements.

The second issue I would like to raise concerns the Government's legislative programme. At this stage, in almost the last week of the session, fewer than a third of the Bills which the Government promised have yet been published. Even in the Tánaiste's Department, that of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, the Companies Audit Bill, which originated in a review back in 2000, has not yet been completed. There is also the personal injuries tribunal legislation on which a report was presented in April 2002, following a long gestation period, and so far we have seen only the heads of Bills on this very important subject that is leading to the loss of jobs every day of the week. Has the Tánaiste plans to consult her Spanish counterparts to bring in expertise to remove the logjams in Departments because it appears we are unable to move forward legislation in a timely way. I am aware the Spanish have been very helpful to the Minister in advising—

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy has gone well outside—

Mr. R. Bruton

—about other infrastructural projects so perhaps they could offer some advice on political leadership here in order that legislation would be delivered on time and on budget.

An Ceann Comhairle

The first matter would be more appropriate to the Whips.

The Tánaiste

We are always happy to look at best practice wherever it is. There are some things in Spain from which we can learn lessons but there are other aspects of the Spanish economy which I would not be keen to put into effect in Ireland.

Mr. Hogan

Tell us what they are?

The Tánaiste

I am being told from those behind me that they would shock even our parliamentarians. On the farm talks the Minister is on his way home and the intention would be to have a debate tomorrow or, if not, at an early opportunity next week on the outcome of those farm talks. The Government is happy to make time available for that purpose and it may well be that we could do that tomorrow, or this evening, because there is a great deal of interest in the matter in which case we would obviously have to change the order. It is important to have an early debate on those matters.

Mr. Timmins

It is vitally important that the Minister for Agriculture and Food come into the House as soon as possible—

An Ceann Comhairle

The Tánaiste has pointed out that there will be an opportunity to debate the issue and the Deputy will have an opportunity then.

The Tánaiste

Perhaps we shall have the debate tomorrow or this evening.

Mr. Timmins

A year has gone by and the Minister has not come in. Now we have a deal involving a 25% cut in incomes and we have not discussed the issue here.

An Ceann Comhairle

I call Deputy Rabbitte.

Mr. Timmins

We have turned this place into a joke.

An Ceann Comhairle

I ask Deputy Timmins to resume his seat while the Chair is on his feet. The Tánaiste was on her feet speaking, having been called by the Chair. She is entitled to respond to the question asked by Deputy Bruton. A Member does not have the right to get up and interrupt her.

Mr. Deenihan

Deputy Timmins was angry.

Mr. Rabbitte

Does the Tánaiste consider it appropriate, before the House rises, to have a debate on developments at the Flood tribunal? The tribunal is a creature of this House as distinct from the Government. I am not saying that either my party or anyone else, including the Government, is in a position to make decisions but it would be appropriate that we discuss what appear to be very serious developments. I ask for this in the light of the letter from Mr. Justice Flood—

An Ceann Comhairle

That matter was dealt with in this House on Tuesday at Question Time and yesterday on Leaders' Questions and we do not want to reopen the debate. If the Deputy has a simple question—

Mr. Rabbitte

I am not reopening it either, Sir. He asked that the letter be circulated immediately to the Opposition. When I got the letter I noted it was dated 16 June, some eight days previously, I wish to make the point to the Tánaiste, that the Opposition has acknowledged there is an objective problem arising from Mr. Justice Flood's letter. The Opposition also is concerned about two other issues – the duration and legal costs, in particular, of the various tribunals—

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot have a debate on the matter now. If the Deputy wants to go down that road I suggest he raise it under Leaders' Questions on Tuesday.

Mr. Rabbitte

The second point is that we are concerned that serious wrong-doing would not be swept under the carpet.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Rabbitte is out of order. I call Deputy Gormley.

Mr. Rabbitte

My question to the Tánaiste is whether she thinks a debate ought to be held before the—

An Ceann Comhairle

That question—

Mr. Rabbitte

I am entitled to raise that matter, Sir. Please, will the Chair let me do so? Does the Chair permit any discretion? In all the years I have been a Member, a Leader of a party can get up and complete two coherent sentences without constant nagging and interruption from the Chair.

An Ceann Comhairle

If the Deputy is not satisfied with the Standing Order I suggest he arrange to have it changed. The facility was put in place for Leaders' Questions—

Mr. Rabbitte

Does the Tánaiste consider that we might have a debate before the House rises and, if so, will she give an assurance to the House in regard to whatever changes or amendments might be provoked by the present situation, that the Government will not take partisan advantage in the formulation of those changes or amendments, given that the letter is in the Government's possession since 16 June?

An Ceann Comhairle

A brief reply to the first part of the question.

Mr. Durkan

The Tánaiste would like to reply.

The Tánaiste

The Attorney General was in The Hague last week and the letter was brought to the attention of the Government on Tuesday and was immediately made available to the Opposition. If there were a few days in between one cannot read anything into that. The Taoiseach has already indicated that he wants to engage in discussion with the Opposition parties. As Deputy Rabbitte said, the tribunal is a creature of the Oireachtas, not of the Government. Clearly any move to change anything would be done only on the basis of agreement with Opposition parties. Before having a debate where there might not be any disagreement between us, I should say those who think an effort is being made to sweep certain things under the carpet are wrong. It might be more useful when we receive a reply from Mr. Justice Flood on the costs issue, which is not yet forthcoming, if the Taoiseach was to engage in discussions with Opposition parties before deciding whether a debate is warranted.

Mr. Stagg

On a point of order, I wish to bring to the Chair's notice again that his ruling, that it is a matter for the Whips, has no basis or standing on precedent or under Standing Orders. The only person in the House who can, with authority, suggest that the Whips might deal with a matter is the Taoiseach, the Tánaiste or whoever is leading the Government. The Chair has no power whatever to make any such suggestion but he does it constantly. I have reminded the Chair of it and I ask him to desist.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Chair has ruled. I call Deputy Gormley.

Mr. Stagg

The Chair has no such authority. The Chair is outside his authority and is constantly doing it.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Chair has ruled for a very good reason—

Mr. Stagg

It was not for a good reason. The Chair was wrong to make the ruling and he has no power to make the ruling.

An Ceann Comhairle

The reason being that if I were to allow—

Mr. Stagg

The Chair has no power to make the ruling.

An Ceann Comhairle

—Members to raise the question of a debate on any issue, any Member on either side of this House could raise any issue they wished on the Order of Business.

Mr. Stagg

If the Chair wants to close down parliament he should close it down.

Mr. Gormley

Given that the Tánaiste has stated discussions will take place with Opposition parties will she please include the Green Party in those discussions? The previous two speakers have asked that time be made available for a debate on important issues. I ask that time be made available to debate the ongoing war in Iraq?

An Ceann Comhairle

Sorry, the Deputy is out of order.

Mr. Gormley

Sorry, I beg your pardon.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Chair has ruled.

Mr. Gormley

The previous speakers have asked that time be made available for debates. The Tánaiste was an enthusiastic advocate of the war in Iraq. We got it badly wrong.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy is out of order. I call Deputy Crawford.

Mr. Gormley

May I make a constructive suggestion that perhaps we could have a debate. In the context of Irish neutrality, we require a debate on this. In that context we could have a debate on the ongoing war in Iraq.

An Ceann Comhairle

Sorry, Deputy.

Mr. Gormley

Will the Tánaiste respond, please. Will she agree to such a debate?

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Gormley, the Chair has pointed out for a very good reason that every Member on each side of the House would be entitled to ask a question on any issue, small or big—

Mr. Stagg

Would not that be dreadful in parliament if Members could ask questions?

An Ceann Comhairle

No, Deputy. The Order of Business would continue until midday—

Mr. Stagg

Is not that what parliament is for?

An Ceann Comhairle

Yes, Deputy, and there are procedures.

Mr. Stagg

There are precedents as well, for Leaders of parties and senior Members of parties to suggest to the Government that we have a debate on particular matters and that they would be dealt with on the floor of the House. That are many precedents for that. The Chair is wrong.

An Ceann Comhairle

There are procedures where all Members can ask questions at Question Time three days a week.

Mr. Stagg

Is the Chair afraid a Member will ask about a parish pump?

An Ceann Comhairle

No, Deputy, it is a question of orderly business in the House and the Chair has to implement Standing Orders.

Mr. Stagg

The Chair is wrong.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Chair is not wrong in this instance.

Mr. Gormley

A Cheann Comhairle, I seek your guidance. Why is it that you have permitted the previous two speakers to raise such issues and ask for time for debates.

An Ceann Comhairle

I ruled them out of order but the Tánaiste answered. The Tánaiste was out of order.

Mr. Gormley

No. The Tánaiste did respond.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Gormley, I am ruling you out of order. I call Deputy Crawford and we are moving on to the next business.

Mr. Gormley

Will the Tánaiste agree to this debate because she got it so badly wrong with the warmongers?

Mr. M. Higgins

On a point of order, on the point being raised by Deputy Gormley – and I have been here a long time – we will not have foreign affairs questions until late autumn. I and others have sought to put down questions to the Taoiseach. They were ruled out in one case by the Ceann Comhairle and have now been transferred to the Minister for Foreign Affairs to be answered some time in late October or November. Is Deputy Gormley's question not perfectly reasonable? Is it not of the same status as an issue that might be raised by any Deputy? Deputy Gormley is asking, in view of what has taken place during this Dáil term and in light of statements made to the Dáil that were based on nonsense, that we have a debate.

An Ceann Comhairle

That is not a point of order.

Mr. M. Higgins

How can the Ceann Comhairle say that if every Deputy wanted to raise a matter, we could have a debate? Not every Deputy is raising issues about Iraq and we know why. Some Members on the Government side do not want a debate because they would get caught out on statements they made to this House which were based on fiction.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy has an opportunity to raise the issue through Private Members' time or on the Adjournment.

Mr. Durkan

On a point of order, at this stage in the session, it is not possible to follow the lines the Ceann Comhairle suggests. We do not have time for Private Members' time and an Adjournment debate is not a suitable vehicle for a debate of that nature. We do not wish to be obstructive. We merely suggest to the Ceann Comhairle, and this could be facilitated if the Government was willing, that he allow for a debate on this issue which has caused genuine concern to a number of people. Are we not entitled to that?

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot spend the rest of this session disrupting the Order of Business when so many issues are on the Order Paper.

Mr. Durkan

I ask the Tánaiste to respond.

Mr. Crawford

In light of the disastrous results in Brussels yesterday, when will we see the land commission Bill in the House? It would at least give us an opportunity to have a full debate on the future of agriculture. Any other type of discussion will only be a farce.

The other issue I wish to raise is the health complaints Bill. It is now 12 months since Monaghan General Hospital was taken off call. All sorts of promises were made but nothing has happened. It is vital we have a proper discussion because tomorrow's discussion will not allow that.

The Tánaiste

Both Bills are due in 2004.

Dr. Upton

The fine print of the reform of the CAP proposals has yet to be debated. The proposals will have a significant impact on the future of agriculture and the food industry. I ask the Tánaiste to ensure that we have time for a substantial debate on this in the House next week.

When will the An Bord Bia Bill, the veterinary medicine Bill and the animal health Bill be introduced?

The Tánaiste

I have already given a commitment that there will be a debate on the outcome of the farm talks. It will be this evening, tomorrow or, at the latest, next week. The An Bord Bia Bill and the animal health Bill will be published in 2004. The veterinary medicine Bill is currently being drafted and will be published over the summer period.

Mr. Stagg

On a point of order, I bring the Ceann Comhairle's attention to the fact that a Deputy has raised an issue about when a debate might be held and the Tánaiste has responded positively. The Ceann Comhairle did not rule against this, yet another Deputy raised an important issue and he ruled against it. The rulings are inconsistent.

An Ceann Comhairle

The other issue was out of order.

Mr. Gormley

Could the Ceann Comhairle explain the rulings?

An Ceann Comhairle

Standing Order 26 explains quite clearly that what is in order is promised legislation or a debate that is promised in the House.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

I seek confirmation that the Tánaiste will also consult with the Sinn Féin Party as she already affirmed earlier her intent to consult with each of the other parties. I welcome the indication that the Minister for Agriculture and Food will come into the House to discuss the recent talks and their outcome. However, the Tánaiste has not given us any indication as to what amount of time will be afforded to Members to fully debate, discuss and question the Minister on the detail of the same talks. If this debate is to be squeezed in either this evening or tomorrow, can she ensure adequate time will be provided unlike with other issues?

Mr. Durkan

A number of people have made contact with us recently in regard to the Private Security Services Bill. People are concerned about the issue. When can we expect to see the Bill? When will the disability Bill, which proposes to facilitate those with disabilities in their attempts to participate equally in society, be introduced?

The Tánaiste

The Private Security Services Bill is awaiting Committee Stage and will be dealt with in the autumn. The Education for People with Disabilities Bill will be published shortly. The other disability Bill will be published in the autumn.

Mr. Rabbitte

When will the amended tribunal of evidence Bill be brought before the House? Is it the advice to the Government from the law officer, that it may only investigate future matters or can it investigate matters already extant?

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot discuss the contents of legislation.

The Tánaiste

The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform will bring that Bill to Cabinet next Tuesday. I think he intends to publish it immediately but it will not be debated until autumn. I am not in a position to provide the legal advice the Deputy seeks but I will revert to him with it.

Mr. R. Bruton

The Minister for Health and Children today announced a review of the nursing homes Bill. What does the Government propose to do regarding the Ombudsman's indication that the Government is not honouring its obligations under the existing Health Act in regard to the nursing home needs of medical card holders?

An Ceann Comhairle

What legislation is the Deputy raising?

Mr. R. Bruton

The Minister today promised that he will review the legislation on nursing home subvention.

The Tánaiste

I understand that the legislation the Minister has promised is not yet in the legislative programme.

Mr. R. Bruton

We are failing to honour our existing obligations as matters stand.

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot discuss the content of legislation.

Mr. J. Higgins

Will the Ceann Comhairle speak to Ministers and ask them to adopt a procedure to ensure that projects promised outside the Dáil which require legislation would be immediately co-ordinated with the Taoiseach or the Tánaiste in order that we can ask legitimate questions and get answers, which we failed to do yesterday, on important issues?

An Ceann Comhairle

Has the Deputy a question on promised legislation?

Mr. J. Higgins

Publication of the ground rent Bill, which has been six years in gestation, is expected. This is an extraordinary period of gestation. When will we see the Bill? On the Bill to clarify and update issues regarding the functions of Údarás na Gaeltachta, an gcuirfeadh an Tánaiste ina luí ar an Aire Gnóthaí Pobail, Tuaithe agus Gaeltachta iachall a chur ar Údarás na Gaeltachta a áras stairiúl Uí Rís, Daingean Uí Chúis a chaomhnú mar go bhfuil baol nach ndéanfar sin anois? Will the Tánaiste urge the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs to get on to Údarás na Gaeltachta about preserving the historic Rice House in Dingle? This historic 100 year old house, which should be kept as part of our national heritage, is in danger of passing out of existence.

The Tánaiste

The Údarás na Gaeltachta Bill will be published in 2004. I will certainly bring the Deputy's concerns to the attention of the Minister. I am not in a position to say when the ground rent Bill will be forthcoming.

Mr. Boyle

I note from the legislative programme that the one Department that has no legislation is the Department of Foreign Affairs. Will the Tánaiste ask the Government to request the foreign affairs committee to hold hearings such as those being held in other national parliaments to examine the veracity of information supplied to the Government and in debates in this House on the war in Iraq? Would that constitute a good use of the committee's time?

An Ceann Comhairle

That is a matter for the Minister.