The Order of Business today will be No. 14, Health (Amendment) Bill 2004 — Second Stage (resumed); and No. 15, Education for Persons with Disabilities Bill 2003 — Order for Report, Report and Final Stages. It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that the resumed Second Stage of No. 14 will, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 1.30 p.m. Private Members' business will be No. 36, motion re management of public funds (resumed) to conclude at 8.30 p.m.
Order of Business.
There are two proposals to be put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 14 agreed?
It is not agreed.
It is not agreed. The Government has proposed to impose a guillotine on Second Stage of the Health (Amendment) Bill 2004. Fine Gael has objected consistently to guillotines and it does so now again.
There is no need for a guillotine in this case. Plenty of time is needed to debate this important Bill fully. The Labour Party opposes the guillotine.
The Green Party opposes the guillotine. The Health (Amendment) Bill 2004 will significantly affect the administration of the health system. It would be irresponsible to try to guillotine a Bill that needs to be debated fully.
Hear, hear.
The Health (Amendment) Bill 2004 is important because it seeks to remove democratic accountability from the determination of health care delivery. I object strongly to the proposal to impose a guillotine to conclude Second Stage of the Bill.
Question put: "That the proposal for dealing with No. 14 be agreed."
The Dáil divided: Tá, 66; Níl, 52.
Tá
- Ahern, Dermot.
- Ahern, Michael.
- Ahern, Noel.
- Andrews, Barry.
- Ardagh, Seán.
- Brady, Johnny.
- Brady, Martin.
- Brennan, Seamus.
- Browne, John.
- Callanan, Joe.
- Callely, Ivor.
- Carey, Pat.
- Carty, John.
- Cassidy, Donie.
- Cooper-Flynn, Beverley.
- Coughlan, Mary.
- Cregan, John.
- Curran, John.
- Davern, Noel.
- de Valera, Síle.
- Dempsey, Noel.
- Dennehy, John.
- Devins, Jimmy.
- Ellis, John.
- Fahey, Frank.
- Finneran, Michael.
- Fitzpatrick, Dermot.
- Glennon, Jim.
- Grealish, Noel.
- Hanafin, Mary.
- Harney, Mary.
- Haughey, Seán.
- Hoctor, Máire.
- Jacob, Joe.
- Keaveney, Cecilia.
- Kelleher, Billy.
- Kelly, Peter.
- Killeen, Tony.
- Lenihan, Conor.
- McCreevy, Charlie.
- McDowell, Michael.
- McEllistrim, Thomas.
- McGuinness, John.
- Moloney, John.
- Moynihan, Donal.
- Moynihan, Michael.
- Mulcahy, Michael.
- Nolan, M. J.
- Ó Fearghaíl, Seán.
- O’Connor, Charlie.
- O’Donnell, Liz.
- O’Donovan, Denis.
- O’Flynn, Noel.
- O’Keeffe, Batt.
- O’Keeffe, Ned.
- O’Malley, Fiona.
- O’Malley, Tim.
- Parlon, Tom.
- Power, Peter.
- Power, Seán.
- Sexton, Mae.
- Smith, Brendan.
- Treacy, Noel.
- Wallace, Dan.
- Wallace, Mary.
- Wright, G. V.
Níl
- Boyle, Dan.
- Broughan, Thomas P.
- Burton, Joan.
- Connaughton, Paul.
- Connolly, Paudge.
- Costello, Joe.
- Crawford, Seymour.
- Cuffe, Ciarán.
- Deasy, John.
- Deenihan, Jimmy.
- Durkan, Bernard J.
- English, Damien.
- Enright, Olwyn.
- Gogarty, Paul.
- Gormley, John.
- Harkin, Marian.
- Hayes, Tom.
- Healy, Seamus.
- Higgins, Michael D.
- Howlin, Brendan.
- Kehoe, Paul.
- Kenny, Enda.
- Lynch, Kathleen.
- McCormack, Padraic.
- McGinley, Dinny.
- McGrath, Finian.
- McGrath, Paul.
- McHugh, Paddy.
- McManus, Liz.
- Mitchell, Olivia.
- Naughten, Denis.
- Neville, Dan.
- Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.
- Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.
- O’Dowd, Fergus.
- O’Keeffe, Jim.
- O’Shea, Brian.
- O’Sullivan, Jan.
- Penrose, Willie.
- Quinn, Ruairí.
- Rabbitte, Pat.
- Ring, Michael.
- Ryan, Eamon.
- Ryan, Seán.
- Sargent, Trevor.
- Sherlock, Joe.
- Shortall, Róisín.
- Stagg, Emmet.
- Stanton, David.
- Timmins, Billy.
- Twomey, Liam.
- Upton, Mary.
Tellers: Tá, Deputies Hanafin and Kelleher; Níl, Deputies Durkan and Stagg.
Question declared carried.
There has been much comment in the past few days about production of the disability Bill, and the matter was raised again this morning. Has the Government considered or approved the Bill? Will we see it before the local elections?
The Government has considered the Bill on a number of occasions. It is on the Cabinet agenda and was discussed at the meeting yesterday. One outstanding issue remains.
I assume that issue involves whether the legislation will be rights-based.
No, that is not the issue.
The Minister would not tell us.
Much as I would like to——
With regard to the overcharging by Allied Irish Banks and the general lack of focus on the consumer dimension as distinct from the prudential, will the Tánaiste tell us the attitude of Government to the Whistleblowers Protection Bill? The Government approved the Bill in my name on 15 and 16 June 1999. It was referred to a select committee and the Tánaiste said she might want to amend it. Five years later, it has not emerged from Committee Stage. Will the Tánaiste say if the Government intends to move ahead with that Bill?
As the Deputy is aware, we have introduced whistleblower-related legislation by means of the Competition Act. Section 50 of that Act indemnifies whistleblowers who bring matters relating to price fixing, cartels and so on to the attention of the Competition Authority.
That is different.
It is very similar. A huge legal issue has arisen with regard to this matter and it is still under consideration by the parliamentary counsel. It relates to Irish people working for subsidiaries overseas and the indemnification that might arise in such circumstances. It is important that we resolve the legal issues, and the Government intends to bring the legislation forward.
Will the Tánaiste clarify what the Taoiseach said yesterday? I asked about the national infrastructure Bill — there is also a critical infrastructure Bill. Will the Tánaiste tell us the planned publication dates of those Bills? I understand that the Cabinet intended last month to discuss the date of the national infrastructure Bill and that the Taoiseach had in mind a date in autumn.
Will the Tánaiste articulate on the national infrastructure Bill and the critical infrastructure Bill?
The Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government has circulated the heads of the critical infrastructure Bill which is on the agenda for Government. It will be discussed by it either next week or the week after. The national roads infrastructure Bill is expected later this year.
I seek the guidance of the Chair on a very important issue — decentralisation. The Chair may be aware that there is no strategic plan for decentralisation and that the implementation committee is not answerable to the Dáil. We have had no Committee Stage type debate in the House, where Members could analyse the Government's proposals and their effectiveness. How will they hold the Government accountable for the way in which decentralisation is implemented? It is important that the Dáil has a proper and well thought out role.
The matter does not arise on the Order of Business.
Where can I raise the issue?
In questions to the Minister for Finance.
Let us be honest, a question to the Minister for Finance will be dealt with in six minutes. This issue cannot be dealt with in six minutes, as it represents a whole change in the way the public service works.
It can be raised in Private Members' time.
That, again, would be a sterile debate. We need a Committee Stage type debate where we could analyse the matter and question the Government on it.
The Deputy will have to find another way of raising the issue.
It is a farce that we cannot have a proper debate.
Yesterday the Tánaiste seemed sympathetic to the idea that we should have a discussion in the House on the appalling situation in Iraq following the disgusting spectacle of a person being executed on television which was preceded by disgusting photographs. The issue is the status of the Geneva Convention. Will the Government provide time for a discussion on the status of compliance with the Geneva Convention, particularly in Iraq and the deteriorating situation in the Middle East? The Minister for Foreign Affairs is due to answer parliamentary questions next week but we need substantive time to discuss the issue.
I totally share the view expressed by the Deputy on this matter and it would be a good idea to provide time for a debate. Perhaps the Whips could discuss the matter this evening.
I thank the Tánaiste.
I welcome the Tánaiste's response to Deputy Higgins. The publication of the Ombudsman (Amendment) Bill which had been signalled for late 2004 on the legislative programme has now been put back to early 2005. In the light of the recent report of the Ombudsman——
There are many Members offering.
——is the Tánaiste confident it will be published in early 2005?
As I understand, it will be published in 2005. I do not think we can fast-track it.
I attended a meeting in Kingscourt last night on the issue of disability, which was highlighted in a recent television programme. When will the Comhairle (Amendment) Bill and the disability Bill be introduced?
Both Bills will be published simultaneously.
When?
Shortly.
Anybody who has been reading the newspapers recently should be aware of a rather nasty leak——
Does the Deputy have a question on legislation, as we cannot enter a debate on what is in the newspapers?
——on the DIT development in Grangegorman which is about to commence. This was leaked previously about two years ago, before the last general election, but I am sure that the Tánaiste knows that the development cannot start unless the Grangegorman Bill is published and passed by the Oireachtas. Will she indicate when it is likely that the Bill will come on stream?
The Bill was recently approved by the Government and will be published shortly.
On promised legislation, given the inadequate services available for people with disabilities and the fact that 450 people are currently housed in inappropriate accommodation-——
A question on the legislation, please.
When the disability Bill comes before the House, will it be accompanied by adequate capital funding to ensure the people concerned can be transferred to suitable accommodation?
The first question is in order.
As I said, the Bill will be published shortly.
Perhaps the Chair may be able to assist the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government who ill-advisedly spent almost €60 million of taxpayers' money on a whim.
Does the Deputy have a question on legislation?
To prevent prosecution or action being taken against him for outlandish behaviour, where is the Diplomatic Relations and Immunities (Amendment) Bill in order that the Minister may claim diplomatic immunity for his behaviour?
I do not think the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government qualifies under the Bill.
Today I am more specific on this question to the Tánaiste than I was yesterday.
Will the Deputy name the legislation as we have to make progress?
I see a look on the Tánaiste's face which says, "Oh my God"
Tóg do leath aimsire anois, a Cheann Comhairle. I want to ask this question to which I want a response or a written answer. On the Health (Amendment) Bill, is it the Government's proposal to introduce changes to the Health Act 1970, in particular section 8 where the role of the general hospitals will be changed in anticipation of implementation of the Hanly report? Is there a proposal to bring forward legislation to change the role of the hospitals?
Somebody else has said in different circumstances that I can look into my heart and know what someone is going to say or think. I knew the Deputy would raise the Health (Amendment) Bill which is currently before the House. There will be many more Bills brought before the House to introduce the Government's radical plans to reform the health service.
I was right.
In the light of the report on financial institutions encouraging elderly investors to move from secure to unsafe deposits, will the Insurance Intermediaries (Amendment) Bill be brought before the House?
It is not possible to indicate at this stage.
In the light of the comments by the Tánaiste yesterday on the Hanly report being part of Government policy and as a first stage the Health (Amendment) Bill is currently before the House, will she outline when the other amending legislation to implement the Hanly report in full will come before the House?
Later, in the autumn of this year. I said the Hanly report was central to the Government's health reforms.
Which Bills will be brought forward?
There are a number of them, together with the Health (Amendment) Bill.
My question is addressed to the Chair. I want to raise in the Chamber an issue that has been discussed a number of times at the Committee on Procedure and Privileges. Later today the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources will answer questions tabled to his Department but the Chair, as previously, has ruled out a raft of Labour Party questions on the grid code, electricity prices and so on.
The questions were ruled out on the basis of the Standing Orders which apply to all parties.
The Chair rules out Labour Party question on the spurious ground that there is a regulator.
That matter does not arise on the floor of the House.
These are important issues of policy.
The Ceann Comhairle is obliged to implement Standing Orders as laid down by Members of this House.
The Chair is misinterpreting them.
I invite Deputy Stagg to submit to the Chair in writing where the Chair misinterpreted Standing Orders, if that is the way he feels, and the Chair will respond to him.
We have told the Chair several times at the Committee on Procedure and Privileges.
I invite the Deputy to submit in writing where the Chair has misinterpreted Standing Orders and the Chair will be absolutely delighted to reply to him.
The Chair is just doing what the Department asks him to do each time.
Will the Chair give guidance to the House on the matter raised by Deputy Bruton? How else can we raise the matter of holding the Government to account on the decentralisation programme? How do we scrutinise and supervise its implementation?
On 11 June 2004.
Deputy Rabbitte knows the ways such matters can be raised in the House. It is not a matter for the Order of Business.
I agree.
Private Members' Business is for the express purpose of allowing ample debate on issues the Opposition wants to raise. There are parliamentary questions and the Adjournment Debate. There are many ways in which it can be done.
The Ceann Comhairle misunderstands.
We are not having a debate on it. We are moving on to No. 14, the Health (Amendment) Bill 2004, Second Stage (Resumed).
I know how to raise it. How do we supervise and hold the Government to account?
If the Deputy is not happy with the procedures, I suggest he speaks to the Dáil reform committee to find a way.
The people will do it on 11 June.