It is proposed to take No. 1, Water Services Bill 2003 [Seanad] — Second Stage (resumed); and No. 2 — Adoptive Leave Bill 2004 [Seanad] — Second Stage. Private Members’ Business shall be No. 38, motion re carers (resumed), to conclude at 8.30 p.m.
Order of Business.
I understand the Taoiseach will be away next week on business. Has he made arrangements for the Tánaiste to attend the House next week or are we to have line Ministers attending in his absence?
The Government is to publish the Intoxicating Liquor Bill 2004 today. This is to provide a clear statutory basis for holding alcohol free events for persons under the age of 18 years in a licensed premises. This is the ninth unplanned emergency Bill introduced this year. Other such measures include the Child Trafficking and Pornography (Amendment) Act 2004, the Committees of the Houses of the Oireachtas (Compellability, Privileges and Immunities of Witnesses) (Amendment) Act 2004, the citizenship referendum Bill, the Immigration Act 2004, the Electoral (Amendment) Act 2004, the Copyright and Related Rights (Amendment) Act 2004, the National Monuments (Amendment) Act 2004 and the State Airports Act 2004, the purpose of which was to provide for the break-up of Aer Rianta. Now we have this Bill. Five of these Bills were from the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform.
In connection with this latest measure, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform repeatedly said that there was no need to change the law in regard to licensed premises. It was only when bar owners, licence holders and other persons continued to raise the issue that he saw the folly of his ways. The Minister recently attended a major summit on traffic but nobody there seems to have told him there were serious problems with speed cameras located around the country. Is it intended to introduce more emergency amending legislation to cater for the Government's inadequacy in putting on the Statute Book legislation that works? Will we see more unplanned legislation being brought forward this year to address glaring anomalies in the way the Government does its business?
I agree it is not ideal to have to introduce emergency legislation. However, in most cases if the courts strike down legislation or interpret it in a certain way, as happened in this case, the choice is to leave it as it is, which results in a vacuum or hiatus, or to deal with it. In this case the issue was examined by the Attorney General, the Minister, and the Government.
All of whom said there was no problem.
Allow the Taoiseach to continue without interruption.
They believed there was no problem, that if a premises has a bar which is locked and not in use and there is nobody working in it a licence should not be necessary. Others took the view that once there was a bar in a premises a licence was necessary. If it is the view of the DPP and others that the law should be amended, we must amend it. I looked at it beforehand. I could not see why a licence should be necessary if a bar is closed and locked up. However, that is the position and we must rectify the situation. That is why we are introducing this legislation.
In answer to Deputy Kenny's other question, the Tánaiste will deal with the Order of Business next week.
Does the Minister propose to extend the hours during which young people may be present on a licensed premises beyond 9 p.m.? This has caused serious concern in the tourism industry.
Not in this legislation. This deals with an issue that affects the "No Name" clubs and discos which take place all over the country. The issue of summertime to which the Deputy refers is being examined in the context of the broader Bill which is also coming forward.
More emergency legislation.
In respect of the substance of the Bill circulated last night by the Minister — I believe he intends all Stages to be taken tomorrow — the Taoiseach may have given the impression to the unsuspecting listener that this was struck down by the courts. It was not struck down by the courts.
The DPP has expressed a view on it.
Yes, but the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform wrote to Deputy Eamon Gilmore on 17 September as follows: "My view has always been that section 14 of the Intoxicating Liquor Act 2003 does not prohibit young people from attending alcohol free functions in a portion of a licensed premises where the bar has been physically closed and shuttered and is not being used for sale of intoxicating liquor".
It is not appropriate to quote.
The Minister then went on radio and said: "The Garda Commissioner and I discussed the matter and we discussed the propriety of getting the Attorney General's view on the matter and I am glad to say that he, the Attorney General, has advised today that I was correct at all stages". There are a couple of points to be made about that. The first is that the Attorney General has surrendered his competence in this matter under the Prosecution of Offences Act 1974. It is a matter for the DPP, not the Attorney General. However, the Minister went on radio and wrote to my colleague, Deputy Gilmore, stating that he and the Attorney General are agreed that there is no question that this is suspect.
The Deputy has made his point. Has he a question on the issue that is appropriate to the Order of Business?
I have. Is this not the latest gaffe by the Taoiseach's most confident and error prone Minister? Furthermore, we are expected to take all Stages of the Bill tomorrow. It is not the first time this has happened and it is not acceptable.
The second matter I want to raise relates to an exchange that took place in the House on 18 February 1986 when the Taoiseach's predecessor, Mr. Haughey, asked for the then Taoiseach's resignation on the basis that he had misadvised the House regarding the appointment of a Minister of State. The Taoiseach told the House last Wednesday that he had accepted the resignation of the Minister of State at the Department of Transport, Deputy McDaid. That was untrue. He then told the House on Wednesday and on Thursday that he had appointed Deputy Conor Lenihan to be a Minister of State. That was invalid. Yesterday he implied that he had received a letter some time on Thursday from Deputy McDaid tendering his resignation. He did not. He got it on Monday and eventually removed Deputy McDaid by decision of the Government on Tuesday. In the meantime Deputy Conor Lenihan has been running around for the past week under the impression that he was a Minister. God knows what big executive decisions he has taken.
I will not ask for the Taoiseach's resignation as Mr. Haughey would have done. However, I will ask him to make a statement to the House to the effect that he misled the House last week regarding this matter and that he will now make a statement to correct the record of the House.
Let me deal with the first matter. The Minister believed that the law was in order and that if a "No Name" club or some other organisation held a function, or a disco as in the case in question, in a premises that had a bar which was closed and not in use, it was in compliance with the law. The Attorney General, who advises the Minister on such matters, took the same view.
The DPP gave his direction on such questions. It is pure arrogance.
When seeking legal advice, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, does not go to the DPP. Deputy Rabbitte should not give that impression.
He brought in the Garda Commissioner. The Garda should go to the DPP.
The DPP under the 1974 Act is an independent officer of the State. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform takes the advice of the Attorney General. In this case, the Attorney General, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform——
Both of them were wrong.
——and the Cabinet believed that it was not necessary for a premises operating as a No Name Club that did not want access to alcoholic beverages for young people to get a separate licence. That is the view most reasonable people will hold.
The DPP had already prosecuted clubs.
The DPP has given his view on the matter and the situation must be corrected. There is no basis for berating the Government for taking a reasonable view.
I dealt with the matter of Deputy McDaid yesterday but I am glad to deal with it again. When I spoke to Deputy McDaid last Wednesday, I informed him that I was unable to continue his appointment as a Minister of State. At that stage, I did not ask him for a letter of resignation.
Because the Taoiseach sacked him.
Though I asked the three Ministers leaving the Government for their letters of resignation, I did not think I needed one from a Minister of State. When I realised late on Wednesday night that I did, I made an effort to contact Deputy McDaid very early on Thursday morning. Subsequently, I contacted him after 9 o'clock and he informed me he would give me a letter of resignation. When I made the statement in the House on Thursday morning, I had not still received his letter. When I dealt with the issue yesterday in the House, I stated that in the morning I had asked the Government that Deputy Conor Lenihan be made a Minister of State with effect from yesterday.
Will Deputy McDaid come back?
Deputy Conor Lenihan's appointment as Minister of State became effective from yesterday following completion of the formalities of Deputy McDaid's resignation under the statute.
Another botched job.
If it created any confusion, I caused it and I apologise to the House for it.
On behalf of the Green Party, I commend the bravery of the crews of the LE Róisín, Aoife and Niamh and wish them well in their rescue attempts of the Canadian submarine off the coast. Regarding the Intoxicating Liquor Bill, is it not clear that the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy McDowell, is a binge legislator?
Does the Deputy have a question appropriate to the Order of Business?
He piles up the legislation, rushes through it and then staggers from one crisis to the next.
(Interruptions).
The other side of the House is enjoying the joke too.
Does the Deputy have a question appropriate to the Order of Business?
Why are all Stages of the Intoxicating Liquor Bill to be taken tomorrow? The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform contacted my colleague, Deputy Cuffe, by telephone yesterday to inform him of this. Deputy Cuffe expressed his annoyance and many spokespersons are extremely annoyed by how the Minister proceeds with business. This is not the way to legislate.
There will be a proposal before the House tomorrow concerning the Bill.
Will the Taoiseach do something about this Minister who seems to be out of control?
Before the local elections in June 2004, the former Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Cullen, published draft guidelines on one-off housing for consultation purposes. We have not yet seen the final guidelines as a result of those consultations. When will the guidelines be put before the House?
Following the publication of the draft guidelines, over 100 submissions were received by the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government. The Department wanted a fair opportunity to examine all the submissions before finalising its work.
Will they be published before the next general election?
They will be published shortly.
Yesterday in the Special Criminal Court, information was provided by a person, alleged to be a member of a particular organisation, of the movements of Members from several political parties. Will Members named in those papers be informed that their movements have been monitored by persons alleged to be members of the organisation at the core of this case before the Special Criminal Court?
Other than knowing about the case, I have no other facts. I will have the matter checked.
Last week when Deputy Rabbitte asked about the electoral (amendment) Bill, the Taoiseach could not state when it would be published. Yesterday, when Deputy Allen asked about it, the Taoiseach replied that it would be published some time next year. I am puzzled as to why there should be a delay. The Bill concerns the revision of constituency boundaries and should only have a standard text and a Schedule of constituency boundaries which is contained in the boundary commission report. Is the publication of what should be a straightforward Bill delayed to include matters other than boundary revisions?
It is purely a matter of the Bill being drafted and brought before the House. There will be no other changes to its content.
It is drafted already.
Will any other matters be included in it?
To the best of my knowledge, no.
Is it planned to introduce legislation to prohibit those operators of illegal dumps being rewarded with waste permits to legitimatise their illegal operations? When will the criminal justice (miscellaneous provisions) Bill be published? I would like the Taoiseach to comment on my first point as it has gone on for several years with no movement from the relevant authorities.
It is not appropriate to the Order of Business.
Legislation exists on the illegal movement of waste and there has already been several prosecutions.
The waste is still in place.
The heads of the criminal justice (miscellaneous provisions) Bill are expected before Christmas and the Bill will be published next year.
Regarding the Dublin metro Bill, as the previous Minister for Transport was buried, has the same happened to the metro?
No, it is still in the process.
They are digging the holes.
It could be an expensive project.
It is still in the process. When will we see the metro?
It will be used to bury the e-voting machines.
It is underground at the moment.
I call on Deputy Costello.
A Cheann Comhairle, can we have an answer?
It must be on the legislation.
Yes, when will we see legislation on the Dublin metro?
The matter is under review and will depend on whether the Government will agree to the kind of expenditure that is necessary for such a project.
It depends on the Government making a decision.
The Taoiseach without interruption.
When will the Government make a decision?
We must wait to make a decision on such a project.
Deputy Gormley, I have called Deputy Costello.
The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform has expressed great certainty on defeating the 800-1,000 cases, based on the European Convention on Human Rights, being taken to the European Court against slopping out in prisons. International and visiting committees have made statements on this matter. The report of the Inspector of Prisons——
Does the Deputy have a question relevant to the Order of Business?
——condemned the practice. When will the prisons Bill, which proposes closing Mountjoy Prison and to deal with slopping out, be introduced?
Early next year.
When the Taoiseach was on this side of the House, he was very vocal about the need for a live cattle trade. What effort is being made to re-open the live cattle trade to Libya?
That is a question for the Minister for Agriculture and Food.
Can we have a debate on this issue in the House? Cattle prices have collapsed.
He is remembering previous experience in that area.
I call on Deputy Neville.
Yesterday I asked when the Disability Bill would be introduced and was informed as soon as possible. The House has heard that answer for over three years. Will it be introduced in this session?
It has been published.
We know that.
It is for the Whips to discuss when Second Stage will be taken. I am also anxious to begin processing the Bill.
I asked the Taoiseach last week about the Postal (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill and the predicament of An Post pensioners. Has he had an opportunity over the past week to investigate their situation? These people are on modest incomes and, unlike ourselves, have received no increases under Sustaining Progress.
That does not arise on the Order of Business.
Perhaps the Taoiseach has had an opportunity to examine the matter.
The Minister of State, Deputy Brian Lenihan, recently announced the appointment of new staff for the central vetting unit. In December 2003 he told the House that there were fundamental issues of policy and legislation to be dealt with. There is still no statutory underpinning for gardaí to hold information from the Courts Service and no provision has been made for holding soft information about people. In spring 2003, Members were promised that legislation on the registration of persons considered unsafe to work with children would be published in 2004. It is now October and we have not yet seen the Bill. It is not included in the list for this term. When will the Bill be brought before the House?
A cross-departmental working group reported to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform on proposals for reform of the vetting of employees by the Garda. The Minister is considering these proposals but I do not have a date for the legislation.
There has been much talk since the last general election about the recruitment of 2,000 extra gardaí. Is legislation required before these extra gardaí can be recruited and is that the reason recruitment is so slow? When will the Driver Testing and Standards Authority Bill be brought before the House?
The first matter does not require legislation. Otherwise, there would not have been such a large passing out parade last week. The Driver Testing and Standards Authority Bill is already published and the Order for Second Stage has been made.
In view of the unfortunate experience of the previous Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government when he became entangled in electronic ballot boxes, will it be possible to introduce, as a matter of urgency, the dormant financial assets Bill to prevent a recurrence?
That legislation is listed for next year.