Gerry Adams
Ceist:6 Deputy Gerry Adams asked the Taoiseach his legislative priorities for the 31st Dáil; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [5316/11]
Legislative Programme
The programme for Government outlines the Government's legislative priorities for the 31st Dáil. Ministers have begun the task of developing legislative proposals to give effect to the commitments in the programme. The Government will shortly approve a programme outlining its legislative priorities between now and the end of the summer session and this will be published. The Government will publish a similar programme at the start of each Dáil session.
With regard to my Department, the legislative priority will be the preparation of legislation to enable a referendum to be held on the abolition of the Seanad.
May I say in passing, there is no reason that a Bill of rights should be confined to the Six Counties. We need a Bill of rights for the whole island.
With regard to the legislative priorities, yesterday the Taoiseach said he intended to establish a constitutional convention. How will that be made up and what legislation is required for it? We have a firm view that it should be on an all-Ireland basis. Will that be done? There is also a commitment to a referendum to amend the Constitution to cut the salaries of judges. Does the Taoiseach know when that Bill will be published? When will the children's rights constitutional amendment Bill be published? Will it be based on the wording agreed by the Joint Committee on the Rights of the Child?
I told the Deputy yesterday that I would give consideration to the inclusion of someone from Northern Ireland in the constitutional convention. As he knows, the convention will not be the final determinant of what will actually happen. It will be a convention at which citizens and others will give their views on a range of issues which I outlined to the House yesterday. Arising from any such report, the Government will consider how best to proceed with its recommendations. The terms of reference and make-up of the convention will be published as soon as I can get around to doing so.
With regard to the referendum on children's rights, to which the Government is committed to holding, I met all of the children's advocacy groups before the general election. A great deal of work was done by the all-party Oireachtas committee on children's rights and it came up with an agreed formula of words which was accepted. Subsequently, the Attorney General made a number of observations on the wording, with which the children's rights groups were disappointed. Having met them, I know they are of the view that it should be possible to reach agreement on a formula of words which could be put to the people in a referendum on the same date as the Presidential election. While I cannot confirm this, I am prepared to consider the matter. The Minister with responsibility for children will work intensively to find whether it would be possible.
The issue of judges is obviously one for a referendum. The Government will consider what is the best course to take in respect of a number of these issues. We must also give consideration to asking the people not only to consider the abolition of the Seanad but also the issue arising from the Abbeylara case. We would like authority to be given to specialised committees of the Dáil to carry out investigative work, with powers to compel attendance. The Deputy will be aware that the Oireachtas has been constrained due to a court decision in the matter.
For each of the referenda mentioned, a Bill will have to be produced and brought before the Dáil. The Government is working diligently to ascertain how quickly they can be produced.
I want to press the Taoiseach in as positive a way as possible on the convention. People from the North make up one quarter of the population on the island of Ireland. Therefore, they should have one quarter of the representatives. I ask the Taoiseach to consider this. Will the Diaspora be invited to be part of the convention? We are talking about an opportunity to do many good things, reflect the views of the people on this island and the wider Diaspora, see how we are governed and the way in which our society should be built. I want to press this issue, as of right. We cannot talk to others in the North or to the British who are reticent about aspects of the Good Friday Agreement when we ourselves do not, either in vision or practice, have an all-island or all-Ireland approach.
While the Taoiseach may not have the answer, there has been a rumour that the referenda might be held on the same date as the Presidential election. Will the Taoiseach clarify this point?
When I met the children's advocacy groups, they made the point that we should not have to go back and start the process all over again from scratch, that we should instead start from the point that the all-party Oireachtas committee had produced an agreed wording. With that wording and the Attorney General's views on a changed wording, it should be possible to get agreement on a formula of words that could be put to the people on the same date as the Presidential election. The same could apply to the issue of the abolition of the Seanad. Preparing a Bill dealing with the removal of articles from the Constitution and the implications for other articles in respect of the abolition of the Seanad is not as simple as it sounds. I have asked my Department to start work on this immediately and we will report progress.
On the Deputy's comment concerning the diaspora and Northern Ireland representation, the convention will deal with recommendations in so far as the Constitution, Bunreacht na hÉireann, is concerned. Obviously, there are issues that will have an impact in a cross-Border sense or in respect of the wider diaspora. I do not have a fixed view on the constraints and either the terms of reference for or the membership of the convention. I will give consideration to the two points raised by the Deputy, although perhaps not in respect of the actual percentage. I accept the Constitution of the Twenty-six Counties has implications in many ways for cross-Border activities and so on. In that sense and in seeking to reach a view on the constraints and the terms of reference, we will give consideration to the two points raised by the Deputy.
Particularly the rights of Irish citizens in the North.
Yes.
With regard to the composition of the constitutional convention, I have concerns on the potential for elitism.
As the Deputy knows, these are only recommendations.
It is very difficult conceptually to envisage a convention that will be truly representative of the different strands of society. It might be useful, therefore, to produce a template or a number of templates or scenarios of what is envisaged in order that people could buy into this, as there is a danger that the great and good of Irish society, particularly those who fancy themselves more than others in terms of their contribution to Irish life, will predominate in such a convention. We must ensure, therefore, that this proposal is considered carefully.
With regard to children's rights, the Oireachtas joint committee engaged in consultations for some two and a half years. The last Government then considered the issue, took advice from the Attorney General and produced proposals which were published by the outgoing Minister of State with responsibility for children, Mr. Barry Andrews. While the Government may have issues with the last Government's final template, it is now decision time. We must be practical and decisions must be taken. The constitutional amendment on children's rights should have priority and I do not believe such a referendum should be held on the same day as the Presidential election. I strongly believe that if the amendment to the Constitution is a substantive one, it merits treatment on its own. The election of a President is a very serious issue in its own right which merits treatment on its own and consideration by the electorate. My position is that we should separate the two.
With regard to the abolition of the Seanad, I am struck by the Taoiseach's statement that it is not as simple as it sounds. The only ones who made it sound simple were the people in the Fine Gael Party for the past two years.
A question, please.
We look forward to that deliberation. Does the Taoiseach accept that the constitutional amendment on children's rights should be separate from the Presidential election?
The Deputy will recall that it was de Valera who abolished the Seanad without reference to anybody. At least we will have a full consultation process and ask the people. I am not watering it down; I just want to get the matter right. In order to ask the people, we must first produce a Bill and bring it before the House.
Of course.
In addition, there are constitutional implications. We want to get the matter right and are working on this.
My views on the Presidency and presidential elections are well known. My view is that the term of office should be shortened and that in the future presidential elections should be held on the same date as fixed-term European and local elections which occur at five year intervals, although that is also a matter for the people. In any case, the constitutional convention will give consideration to this question and how one might bridge the gap between the current five and seven year terms.
That is cosmetic.
The issue of children's rights is real and sensitive and there are arguments on both sides. The Government has decided to hold a referendum on children's rights. The newly appointed Attorney General will consider the decision of her predecessor and advise the Government on the wording.
The children's rights groups I met had very serious views and were disappointed about the changed wording brought in by the previous Attorney General. They made the point this wording will not do the job required in respect of children and their rights. I am sure every Member will want to do what is in the best interests of children and at the same time have a correct constitutional balance. Deputy Martin can take it that the Minister for Children and the Attorney General will look at this as a matter of priority and will take into account a continued interaction with the children's rights groups.
Whether the referendum will be held on the same date as the presidential election is a matter to be considered. I do not have a hard and fast view on that but I take the Deputy's point about the importance of both, and whether the people should be asked to decide these questions on separate days. The Government has not made a decision on this but the children's groups are of the belief it would be possible to hold a children's referendum on the same date as the presidential election.
The reason I asked the question is that the issues pertaining to a children's referendum are serious and people from different strands of society may wish to articulate on them. When one mixes this matter up with a presidential election there is a great danger the accusation could be made that the issues are being squeezed and are without full articulation in regard to a proposed amendment to the Constitution. I do not say that is the Taoiseach's intention. In terms of good practice, unless the amendment to the Constitution is completely harmless, namely, without contention, generally speaking where there are substantive amendments to the Constitution with substantive issues involved the matter should be separate from any other. That great danger is present. Various groups will try to be helpful to Government and say they will work with it to have the matter ready for November. However, it does not have to be in November but could be before then if the Government were to agree a proposal in terms of wording, and so on.
That has always been my position. Different Governments have held such referendums on the same days as other matters but I have always had concerns about that in terms of the democracy aspect.
Not only did de Valera abolish the Seanad he attempted to do so in respect of PR. Nothing is more substantive than that, as the Deputy is well aware from history writings.
The people spoke.
I reiterate I have not fixed the terms of reference or composition of the convention. Other locations, for example, British Columbia, have done this from a jury list system with a representative group emerging from all the different strands. What is done is allowing citizens to have a direct input into the way their country is run, with recommendations being offered which a government then considers. This matter will return to the House for discussion. I would like to hear the views of Deputies about how this can best be done in the interests of everybody.
Departmental Functions
Micheál Martin
Ceist:7 Deputy Micheál Martin asked the Taoiseach his plans regarding the structure and staffing of his Department. [5337/11]
Micheál Martin
Ceist:8 Deputy Micheál Martin asked the Taoiseach the staffing numbers of his Department in December 1996 and December 2010 and his proposals for the future staffing of his Department. [5342/11]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 7 and 8 together.
A key condition of a successful turn-around strategy for the country is a more joined-up strategic centre at the heart of government. My Department will play a key role at the centre of Government with a more explicit focus on its role as a Cabinet office and with particular oversight of the programme for Government to ensure that the overall priorities of Government are reflected across all Departments. Its core responsibilities will also include ensuring that the Government's deliberations take place with the benefit of an up-to-date assessment of the overall economic, political and social situation, ensuring that the budget preparation process takes account of and reflects strategic priorities of Government, ensuring that the overall priorities of Government are reflected in departmental strategy statements and other strategic documents of Government, such as fiscal strategies and social policies, ensuring that departmental work plans reflect strategic priorities, and keeping the Cabinet informed on delivery of the Government's key priorities.
Over the coming weeks, sections and posts in my Department which have been engaged in work which now comes within the responsibility of the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform will transfer to that Department. The precise details of the sections and posts to be transferred are being finalised.
The reductions in the size of ministerial private offices and constituency offices that were announced by the Government last week will be applied in respect of my offices and those of the Ministers of State assigned to my Department. Although the relevant staffing arrangements have yet to be finalised, I can assure the House that following the restructuring, the overall size and cost of the Department and of the ministerial offices will be significantly reduced.
There were 167 staff in my Department at the end of December 1996. At the end of December 2010 there were 191 whole-time equivalent staff in the Department.
In his reply the Taoiseach appears to outline a role for his Department in terms of the budget and an overseeing budgetary strategy. Perhaps he might elaborate on his reply. He also referenced fiscal strategy. Did I hear correctly that a section located within the Taoiseach's Department that dealt with public expenditure and public service reform is now to be moved out of that Department to the new Department of Public Expenditure and Public Service Reform? Is that in addition to the numbers working within the former Department of Finance, who will also form a new office?
Yes. An assistant secretary and a small number of staff in the Department of the Taoiseach who had been dealing with public service reform will move to the new Department of Public Expenditure and Public Service Reform. I consider one of the important roles of the Office of the Taoiseach is to be able to ensure that the priority of the Government is achieved and this will involve interaction with Ministers on a regular basis to see that the programme for Government is followed through. The Office of the Taoiseach has the opportunity to interact directly with senior members of the public service and also to work with Ministers in ensuring that whatever difficulties exist in regard to elements of the programme of Government can be addressed.
In respect of budgetary matters this will mean that the budgetary preparation process takes account of the priorities of Government. In other words, its purpose is to keep an eye on things.
That is interesting. In a written reply on this matter earlier this week the Taoiseach stated he would not have executive functions and I believe I detected a Sir Humphrey moment in the composition of that reply. However, if the Taoiseach does not mind my saying so, this reply seems somewhat different. He spoke of keeping an eye on things. In essence we will have two Ministers for Finance, one responsible for public expenditure, the other for taxation and budgetary matters. Now the Taoiseach appears to indicate he, too, will have a role in budgetary strategy. Ultimately, there must be some sense of coherence.
What appears to be happening is that the Taoiseach is scrambling around trying to build up an edifice for the Tánaiste. It reminds me of the team Dick Spring had when he was Tánaiste within the Taoiseach's Office.
It was very effective.
Of course, Deputy Stagg would say that. It was effective from his partisan political point of view.
This is Question Time.
It was very effective.
It did not turn out so effective at the end of the day.
Speak through the Chair, Deputy.
It got results.
That is fine. The Deputy obviously forgets——
Deputy, please speak through the Chair. This is Question Time.
Of course, I will speak through the Chair, a Cheann Comhairle, but you might direct your comments to Deputy Stagg——
I have already directed my comments to Deputy Stagg and he knows that.
——to tell him to refrain from interfering, as he is wont to do.
The first to be thrown out of the House.
The office referred to seems to be——
Let the Deputy move on and ask a question.
——under a different name in a different context.
Deputy Martin may not realise it but there is a different Government in office.
Deputies
Hear, hear.
One important point is our realisation this is not a Government of independent Departments. It is a Government that will focus on co-ordination and an effective decision making process.
A Deputy
Hear, hear.
I have not assumed, or tried to assume unto myself, executive authority for every decision. It is an honour and a privilege to appoint Ministers to Cabinet and to accept their responsibility. However, that responsibility is not individual or locked into a tunnel, a rut or a silo. It is part of joined up Government thinking to implement the programme for Government in the interests of the people, the betterment of the country and according to the mandate we received. From that point of view, as the Deputy is well aware, the Office of the Taoiseach must take an interest and an oversight view of the work of Government. Politicians are here for two purposes; they must find solutions and they also make decisions. In the role of Taoiseach it is my privilege to encourage and motivate people in order to assist them in their work in achieving the objectives and targets of the Government for the overall benefit of the country. In that sense the issues I have outlined do not take away from an individual Minister or responsibilities; it is a real attempt to have a co-ordinated response through all the Departments in the interests of our people and country.
We recognise that there is another Government in office. Whether it is different remains to be seen and we are still trying to spot the difference.
It is very different.
I have a couple of ceisteanna. There was a practice where staff in Departments were assigned to constituency work. How many staff, if any, in the Taoiseach's Department are assigned to this? In the last Dáil an adviser from the Department of the Taoiseach was seconded to the office of the Minister for Health and Children. Have steps been taken to rectify that position?
There is another point on which to reflect. At a time when the British had direct responsibility in the North, it may have been appropriate that we were dealt with through the Department of Foreign Affairs. The Assembly is now ending its first term ever since partition so we are clearly at a different dispensation. There may be merit in the Government considering having somebody in the Taoiseach's Department dealing directly with that part of the island. I know many Irish citizens, not just Nationalists and republicans, do not feel happy that we are dealt with by the Department of Foreign Affairs. We are all part of the one island and one nation. There might be something there to reflect on and perhaps we could discuss that informally at some other point.
The two main questions concern whether there are advisers assigned to constituency work and if so, how many; second, has the position of a person who was seconded to the office of the Minister for Health and Children been rectified?
The programme for Government indicates that the size of the Department of the Taoiseach will be reduced. As I stated, a number of staff will transfer to the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform. There are 20 people working in that area, and that is in addition to the previously planned reductions in the staffing of the Department in any event.
The Government made a decision at its meeting last week that in respect of Minister's private offices, there would be a reduction from a maximum of ten to a maximum of eight people engaged. In respect of a Minister's constituency offices there would be a reduction from a maximum of six to a maximum of four people engaged. In the private offices of a Minister of State, the maximum of seven people would be reduced to a maximum of five; in a Minister of State's constituency office, the maximum of five people would be reduced to a maximum of three. Where a Minister of State is assigned to two Departments, the maximum would be reduced from nine to seven. These changes will be put in effect.
The other person mentioned by the Deputy was a press officer for the Progressive Democrats and was covered in remuneration by the Department of the Taoiseach. That person is no longer an adviser on health or politics.
That completes the time for questions.
A Cheann-Comhairle——
The time is up.