Topical Issue Debate

Domestic Violence Policy

Deputy Mary Mitchell O'Connor

I raise the matter of the need for greater awareness and action to protect victims of violence in the home. I compliment the work of the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Alan Shatter, in dealing with the issue of domestic and sexual violence. His address at the sexual and domestic violence conference earlier this month clearly demonstrated his support for the eradication or, at least, the amelioration of such crimes. I welcome his commitment to introduce reformed domestic violence legislation. I ask him to consider the points I raise in that context.

I am very concerned about the occurrence of violence in the home and the risks posed to the safety of the injured parties, the majority of whom are women, and also children who are affected by domestic violence in many ways. Often, they are the victims of the violent perpetrator. There seems to be a myth that only the mother experiences domestic violence, but international research demonstrates the co-occurrence of child abuse and domestic violence. Domestic violence has an impact on the physical safety and emotional development of the child. The new Article 42A of the Constitution will ensure the voice of the child is heard in court proceedings on issues of access, custody and guardianship. Children living in homes in which they experience domestic violence must have their voice heard in family law proceedings. I ask the Minister to reinstate the making of child welfare and safety assessments. It is not right that custody and unsupervised access can be granted to a parent who is a perpetrator of domestic violence. The court must be satisfied that a child will be safe before granting unsupervised access. Therefore, there needs to be a child welfare and safety assessment carried out by a professional probation officer or social worker.

The argument made is that such provisions cost money and a moratorium on the making of public appointments is in place. However, I ask the Minister to look at the system as it stands. A person accused of an indictable crime is means-tested and may be granted immediate free legal aid. This is not the case for victims of domestic violence. Within the constraints of the budget available, I ask that X amount be granted for criminal cases and Y amount be retained for cases of domestic violence. It seems more resources are being offered to criminals if they pass the means test, while women and children suffering from domestic violence cannot avail of services. Children have no voice in the family courts and oftentimes are very distressed when sent back to the violent home. They are emotionally abused when forced to witness the abuse of their mother. Therefore, there needs to be a risk assessment carried out. The commitment to Children First and Article 42A of the Constitution to give a voice to children must be upheld in law and also in its spirit.

In criminal cases a court can be called to arraign criminals, but this is not the case for abused women who may have been battered, beaten and raped. Victims of domestic violence need out-of-hours protection services. If a domestic violence incident occurs on a Friday evening, there is no recourse to the courts until at least the following Monday. While gardaí can arrest in certain cases, station bail is usually granted within a few hours. In other cases, gardaí may be unable to make an arrest owing to a lack of evidence. The perpetrator of violence who is neither arrested nor charged is free to return to the scene of the abuse which, in a case of domestic violence, is the home. In these cases the only option for women and children who have reason to be fearful is to leave. However, family and friends may not be willing to accommodate them, while the women's refuges are often full.

Minister for Justice and Equality (Deputy Alan Shatter)

I thank the Deputy for raising this issue. She placed particular emphasis on domestic violence against children as opposed to domestic violence against spouses. Violence against children by parents is an aspect of child abuse within the home. A feature of the spectrum of domestic violence is that spouses perpetrate violence against each other. More frequent is violence by the husband against the wife, but there have been instances over the years of wives being violent against husbands. Frequently, children are caught in the middle where there is domestic violence. We should never simplify this area. There are spouses who are violent towards each other but who are never violent towards their children. However, children suffer severe psychological trauma and damage when they witness parents being violent against each other, or one parent perpetrating violence against the other. Equally, there are parents who are physically violent towards their children. This is of particular concern and it arises frequently in the family courts when dealing with proceedings taken by parents who are separating spouses or separated partners. Those proceedings were taken under the Guardianship of Infants Act 1964. Under our statutory provisions, the welfare of the child is the paramount consideration in making decisions about the custody of or access to a child. As the Deputy stated, that protection is now enhanced by the constitutional amendment on children's rights, which seeks to ensure that, in dealing with guardianship, custody and access cases, the best interests of the child constitutionally will be regarded as the paramount consideration.

It was my concern for some time prior to my becoming Minister that the courts did not have the back-up required in undertaking child assessments where allegations are made. My experience as a family lawyer over the years demonstrates that allegations of violence against a child by one parent against the other are not always true. Sometimes they are used as a weapon in a marital battle to try to prevent an appropriate parent from having contact with children.

In July of this year, I announced we would proceed to have a constitutional referendum to facilitate the establishment of new court systems, including family court systems. One reason is that we need to move away from the current court structure. We need a unified and integrated family court structure with judges with expertise in this area and with the appropriate back-up assessment services. The Deputy is correct to say there is a financial cost involved in this. Some 20 years ago, when the probation service was called the probation and welfare service, the welfare side of the service was used in family disputes in the District Court to undertake child assessments to assist the judge in reaching decisions. Some considerable years ago, that role was removed from the probation and welfare service, which is now essentially a probation service. I have no doubt there is a need, in appropriate cases, for such assessments to be carried out. There is a need for the courts to listen to what children have to say. The amendment made to the Constitution on Saturday – the votes were counted on Sunday – gives a voice to the child. It is important that the courts, considering children's age and level of understanding, take cognisance of what they say.

In dealing with allegations of violence, it is terribly important that the courts be informed, not just in child protection cases but also in disputes relating to custody and access. It is also important that false allegations not be used to prevent a child from having a right of contact with parents who can no longer live with each other. I assure the Deputy that these are all issues in which I have had considerable interest for some substantial time. The court system and assessment issues will be part and parcel of the reforms we hope to introduce, on condition that we have a successful referendum on the courts issue.

Deputy Mary Mitchell O'Connor

I welcome the Minister's reform of the court structure, especially the reform of the in camera rule. I have spoken about this in the Chamber previously.

I reiterate the importance of out-of-hours cover. Will the Minister consider what is being done in Austria, Germany, a pilot area in the United Kingdom and New South Wales. Emergency orders are made through a police application to the court or an authorisation officer via telephone, fax or e-mail.

Women experiencing domestic violence are often controlled, followed, harassed and stalked by their abusers during their relationships and after separation. Stalking often escalates after separation as the perpetrator may want to continue to control the victim. We need to introduce a specific offence of stalking into Irish law, as exists in Scotland and Victoria. Stalking should be recognised as grounds for a safety order. When formulating the definition of the offence, we must take into account new technologies, including text messaging, the Internet, social media, blogs, etc. Currently, harassment is dealt with under section 10 of the Non-Fatal Offences Against the Person Act 1997 but it is difficult to prove there has been harassment based on the definition contained in the Act.

Deputy Alan Shatter

Part of the reform agenda is to provide updated and consolidated domestic violence legislation. Domestic violence legislation is now contained in more than one main Act. Piecemeal changes have been made to the legislation and it is important that it be consolidated. It is important to introduce additional reforms.

It is, of course, important that victims of domestic violence, whether perpetrated by a spouse or cohabitant or directed towards the child, be aware that there are remedies within our court system to allow one obtain a protection order, safety order or, in appropriate cases, a barring order. Protection orders can be granted on an ex parte basis. I appreciate, however, that the Deputy is raising the issue of obtaining some protection at weekends. The Garda is available to provide protection against domestic violence. The Garda's policy on domestic-violence intervention clearly outlines the procedures to be adopted by all members of the force. In cases of domestic violence, the Garda has a pro-arrest policy to protect spouses or partners and their families. It also gives advice on local support services.

I thank the Deputy for raising this issue. I appreciate that, in a Topical Issue debate, one cannot deal with the matter comprehensibly. However, I am fully aware of the concerns raised by the Deputy and we will do our best to ensure they are properly addressed.

Residential Property Prices Register

Deputy Ciarán Lynch

I thank the Office of the Ceann Comhairle for granting me the opportunity to discuss with the Minister for Justice and Equality what I believe would enhance the operation of the residential property price register. I commend the Minister on implementing the measure in this regard. I have called for it for many years. It was in the Labour Party's manifesto prior to the last general election and it is in the programme for Government. It is one of many commitments in the programme for Government that have been achieved to date.

The purpose of the residential property price register is to normalise the housing market and to give accurate and clear information to house purchasers. The obvious question that needs to be asked this evening concerns why it has taken so long to arrive at this position.

The United Nations, as part of its programme in developing countries and eastern European countries that are restructuring their social and private residential housing sectors, has as a basic criterion the putting in place of a house price database. This is because the absence of such a database is one of the most significant causes of house price bubbles, such as that experienced in Ireland. In this State, estate agents, valuers and others overinflated the prices of property.

They were advertised in newspapers and it became a major income stream for newspapers across the country. They were advertising prices above the market value and there was no clear information for purchasers on the true value, which gave rise to a compound effect that resulted in house prices increasing indefinitely. Now that the register has been established, there are some measures that could be introduced to improve it. I would welcome the Minister taking on board some of the suggestions I will make.

When a property is sold, there is no indication whether it is an apartment, a house - whether it be an end of terrace, gable end or mid-terrace house - or the square footage involved. There is no information other than its value. When people log onto the website, as many do - it has proved to be very successful in terms of public access - all they see is a valuation of the property. That is fine if one knows the type of property at which one is looking, but the website does not include a general scheme of the house, nor does it give the relative value.

I propose to the Minister that, as part of the conveyancing completion process - I know the information is assimilated by the Revenue Commissioners and sent to the database - including some additional boxes to be ticked in the system would allow for an indication to be given as to whether a property is a house or an apartment and has one or three bedrooms, as to the square footage and so forth. That would lend itself to allowing more accurate information to be provided and achieve the goal we want to achieve in the residential property market, namely, to ensure people are given accurate information and pay realistic prices for their homes.

Deputy Alan Shatter

I thank the Deputy for raising this issue. I know it is one in which he has a personal interest.

The Property Services Regulatory Authority which comes under the aegis of my Department published the Residential Property Price Register as recently as 30 September. All of the information on the register is publicly available, free of charge, on its website. The register has been produced by the authority under section 86 of the Property Services (Regulation) Act 2011 which explicitly provides that the register of residential property prices shall contain the address of the property, the price at which the property was sold and the date of sale of the property. The register includes information on residential properties purchased in the State since 1 January 2010, as declared to the Revenue Commissioners for stamp duty purposes. It contains the price paid for individual properties and details of all residential sales, both cash sales and sales with mortgages. The particulars published in the register include the price, the date of sale and the address, including house number, of each residential property sold in Ireland since 1 January 2010. The information will be updated on a regular basis and, for the most part, is published within one month of the date of sale of the property.

The register can be searched by reference to a number of criteria, including all sales by county, city or town, individual property address and year. This important new facility enables members of the public to discover easily and quickly prices paid for properties sold in Ireland. It provides buyers and sellers of residential property with a service they have previously lacked, namely, accurate and up-to-date information on the market price of individual properties on the date of sale.

The publication of the Residential Property Prices Database fulfils a key commitment in the programme for Government "to improve the quality of information available on the Irish housing market by requiring that the selling price of all dwellings is recorded in a publicly available, national house price database". The establishment of the database was first recommended many years ago. In my first year in office as Minister I prioritised enactment of the required legislation, among other things, to facilitate the establishment of the Residential Property Price Register. Accordingly, I formally established the Property Services Regulatory Authority on a statutory basis on 3 April last. The register was put online with praiseworthy speed.

In recent years, because of the steep downturn in the property market, it has been difficult to obtain accurate information on property prices. This uncertainty has led to a lack of investor confidence and may have contributed to stagnation in the property market, particularly among first-time buyers. The publication of the register should, I hope, help to remove some of this uncertainty, restore some confidence in the property market and provide for some transparency in residential property sale prices. However, it cannot solve all of the problems impacting on the property market.

I note the Deputy's view that other information should be included in the register such as whether a property is a house or an apartment, the number of bedrooms, the square footage, the site area and the local authority area. It is important to note in this context that the register is not intended to serve as a property price index. In accordance with the legislation, the details made available on the property price register are limited to price, address and date of sale. They do not include such details as property size or number of rooms. Individuals interested in particular properties who look them up on the website have the facility to visit the area if they are not familiar with it and readily identify whether they are talking about a detached house, a semi-detached house, an apartment, a cottage, a bungalow or any other type of construction. The register has simply been designed to provide on an ongoing basis accurate prices of residential properties purchased on a particular date. As I have mentioned, the information contained therein is derived from the information declared to the Revenue Commissioners for stamp duty purposes. The categories of information sought for inclusion on the register are not included in the information submitted to Revenue for stamp duty purposes. Accordingly, it would not be possible to include the information the Deputy is seeking in the register.

Deputy Ciarán Lynch

I thank the Minister and commend him for bringing forward this measure which, as he mentioned was included in the programme for Government. The house price property database is a good idea, but I am proposing measures that would improve it. We must focus on the desired goals and outcomes in having a house price property register. The information to which I have referred that could be included in the register is already available because it is part of the conveyancing process. People would lay out a description of the house and it would be a case of ticking boxes to indicate whether the property was a house, a flat, an apartment, a gable end, semi-detached or detached property, and the number of bedrooms. One would be required to tick four or five boxes and this could be done as part of the transfer of the information to Revenue. I am aware the information is used for stamp duty purposes, but as we move towards a more progressive property tax model and away from stamp duty, we need to adopt a more progressive approach to the way we determine the valuations of properties. I impress upon the Minister that what I am proposing would make a good idea better and future proof what has been a missing aspect of the way houses are costed.

Deputy Alan Shatter

I again thank the Deputy for raising the matter. What he has said is interesting and I will bear in mind what he has suggested. I do not believe, however, that it falls within the current requirements of the legislation which only prescribes the information currently on the register which has been furnished since 2010. Such information could not be obtained retrospectively. It may be at some future date by way of amending legislation or other statutory instrument. It would be possible to expand the register further and it does provide substantial additional information. It is a website that is very popular and which has had many thousands of hits. It makes the information available readily accessible to many individuals. It is a great pity there was no such site ten years ago.

Deputy Ciarán Lynch

I agree with the Minister.

Deputy Alan Shatter

I do not intend to make wild claims for it. I will not suggest we necessarily would not have had a property bubble or boom if such information was made available many years ago, as individuals might still have been stampeded into buying property and led to believe prices always increased and never collapsed. We might still have had banks failing to undertake due diligence assessments of individuals and offering sums of money that were unrealistic to purchase property in circumstances where a due diligence investigation would have indicated such individuals were entering into unaffordable arrangements. I do not, therefore, want to make wild claims for the register. It is a brick in the wall of the protections necessary for individuals and provides for a degree of transparency. I again thank the Deputy for his interest in the matter and the suggestions he has made.

Public Transport Provision

Deputy Timmy Dooley

I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Ring. Today we learned from a newspaper report that CIE’s auditors, PricewaterhouseCoopers, have stated the company’s status as a going concern is at considerable risk. This should cause considerable concern to the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport and the House. The rail section of CIE recorded a deficit of approximately €22 million, even after receiving a considerable subvention for current spending of €149 million. PricewaterhouseCoopers has warned about the company’s finances and whether it can be a viable business. The auditors spoke of, “Material uncertainty which may cast significant doubt about the group's and company's ability to continue as a going concern.” When an auditor with the reputation of PricewaterhouseCoopers puts such a commentary in the audited accounts of a company, which were also overdue, then immediate action must be taken by the Minister and the Government.

In July, I intensely questioned the Minister about his proposal to get an additional €36 million from other areas in his Department to shore up CIE’s financial position. He assured me then it was available. Last month, during Question Time we learned none of this money has yet been paid over. Again, the Minister was quite vague and talked about the necessity of CIE to demonstrate to him its capacity to make significant savings in the years ahead. He also stated that while he may be able to provide funding this year, he would not be able to do so henceforth.

Depending on the strength of the Minister’s position, this news today could spell a serious disaster for the public transport network. CIE, as the Minister of State knows, has cut rail and bus services in rural areas and across Dublin. That is fine if the Government’s requirement is about just having CIE as a going concern. It will be able to balance its books. However, as a public transport company, I believe the Government must ensure it meets its policy platform of having an integrated network and providing public transport to the citizens of this State. There is a significant difference between the fiduciary duties of CIE’s directors and the role of the Minister. It is not good enough to say it is up to the board of the company to resolve the issues. Quite frankly, it might not be in a position to do so. It must get its accounts in order, the directors’ fiduciary duties require them to balance the books and meet the company’s financial commitments.

However, the Minister has a different role in that he has to ensure we have a public transport network that is fit for purpose. I am concerned the Minister is taking a hands-off approach. I hope the Minister will give confidence to me and the travelling public that there will be no further diminutions of public transport services. We need to have a viable public transport network at a time when we are trying to reduce the number of private cars on the road and assist the economic recovery.

Minister of State at the Department of Tourism, Culture and Sport (Deputy Michael Ring)

I thank Deputy Dooley for raising this matter. In the absence of the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Varadkar, who is abroad on official business, I have been asked to respond on his behalf to the issue raised.

The 2011 annual report and financial statements for CIE were noted by the Government yesterday. The accounts, and those of its three subsidiary companies, were laid before the Houses of the Oireachtas earlier today. The accounts have also been published on the CIE and subsidiary companies' websites.

An unqualified audit report was issued by the group's auditors on CIE's 2011 financial statements. However, the auditors have included an emphasis of matter paragraph regarding the group's ability to continue as a going concern. The auditors note funding and trading difficulties give rise to uncertainty for the business and challenge the group's ability to continue to trade as a going concern. The board of CIE expects these uncertainties can be addressed through a range of measures including the realisation of non-core assets, reduction in cost base including payroll reductions, multi-annual fare increases and curtailment of the own-funded capital programme.

CIE suffered a loss, after exceptional items, of €6.1 million in 2011 compared to losses of €53.6 million in 2010 and €77.7 million in 2009. The improvement in the operating result over 2010 arises from lower voluntary redundancy costs and a gain of €22.3 million in 2011 on disposal of assets. The CIE Group is struggling with a difficult financial situation. On 24 July last, the Government decided to provide additional funding of €36 million to CIE to ensure the companies could continue to operate for the rest of 2012. This would bring the total subvention for this year to €278 million, higher than the subvention level for 2010 and the fifth highest level of subvention ever.

To date, the total subvention paid amounts to €252 million. At this very difficult time for the public finances, it was not easy to find a large amount of additional funds. It involved difficult decisions in having to divert funding from other worthwhile and important projects and initiatives, as well as imposing sacrifices on others. The Minister has indicated he wants to see significant progress made by CIE in the development of a realistic, sustainable and robust business plan to deal with the current economic realities, cost reductions with the CIE Group and employee support for same, the sale of non-core assets and the securing of new credit facilities.

These various avenues are being explored and may reduce the need for the level of funding required. The Minister and Minister of State, Deputy Kelly, are meeting regularly with the chairman and senior executives of the CIE companies as well as having met with union representatives. The Minister has pointed out that the additional funding for this year only provides a short breathing space to CIE. It is essential the management and staff in the CIE companies use this time productively to discuss and implement proposals to cut costs that can help address the serious financial position in which the CIE Group finds itself.

CIE is progressing the preparation of a revised five-year business plan with aggressive targets that will support the reporting of trading improvements in 2013. It is intended that the business plan will address the underlying financial challenges facing CIE so that CIE's public transport services can be provided efficiently and cost effectively over the plan period. In publishing its accounts, CIE has reiterated it will continue to engage positively with the Minister, his Department and the National Transport Authority to plan its business taking account of the constrained funding environment.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

I thank the Minister for his response but I am not happy with it. It is clear to me that the Government has decided the resolution of this matter will be through the further diminution of services provided by the CIE companies. I spoke to two Fianna Fáil councillors in Dublin today, Mary Fitzpatrick and Paul McAuliffe, about cutbacks in public transport services in Dublin. Paul McAuliffe told me earlier this year Dublin Bus proposed new bus routes for the Finglas-East and Glasnevin areas. After circulating the proposed routes to local residents, he received a large number of angry responses. Following his intervention with a local campaign to protect the services, they managed to save the No. 19 bus route which provided services for Grove Park and Tolka Estate. There is still a real loss of service in these areas. Some areas will no longer have services that are direct cross-city or provide access to certain hospitals. Mary Fitzpatrick informed me that Broomebridge railway station still needs building and structural improvements, new customer shelters and seating on platforms, improvements in lighting and upgrades of station and approach road signage.

These are all the things the Minister of State referred to as part of the reduction process. Effectively we are going to downgrade our public transport infrastructure and we will damage our public transport network as a result. There is a group outside the gate which the Minister of State can meet on the way out if he wishes. They are from Roosky and Dromod and they are highlighting the fact that the Bus Éireann bus now bypasses those villages. They are putting it to anyone who is prepared to sit and talk that the reductions are impacting on the Bus Éireann network and that as the Government starts to chip away at the services, it is dismantling a network that has been put together over many generations. The Minister of State must try to protect what is in place and find whatever capacity he can to do so.

Deputy Michael Ring

I put it to the Deputy that between 2007 and 2011 there was a 21.7% decrease in the amount of people using the services. CIE has been increasing the fares but it simply cannot go on. It will reach a stage when people will be unable to afford the fares. We need to encourage more people to use public transport. The reason buses, including the bus to which Deputy Dooley referred, are being taken off the road is that CIE and Irish Rail maintain that the problem is that people are not using them. We need to get more and more people using public transport.

I noted in my reply that the companies have received a record amount of subventions this year and the Government is committed to the €36 million. Arrangements are being made to draw down the funding in the amount of €16 million but CIE cannot continue to come back to the Government. CIE must put forward proposals and plans and put in place a business plan to ensure it is competitive. Other people and services have lost out as a result of this. Other commitments were made by the Department with that money in mind this year but we have had to use it to subvent CIE. It cannot go on and CIE must start to work on it. Deputy Dooley comes from rural Ireland, as do I. There are empty trains going up and down. Why is CIE not using the business brain to try to get more numbers on trains? Why does it not put on special offers and deals rather than remain dependent on putting up fares?

Death of Ms Savita Halappanavar

Acting Chairman (Deputy Michael McCarthy)

Deputies Patrick Nulty, Mick Wallace, Clary Daly, Joan Collins, Richard Boyd Barrett, Joe Higgins and Catherine Murphy have 14 minutes in total to make an initial statement, and the Minister has four minutes to reply. Deputies have two minutes each and I will call them in that order. The first speak is Deputy Patrick Nulty.

Deputy Patrick Nulty

I express my condolences to the family concerned on the passing of Savita Halappanavar. My comments do not relate to any specific case but to the need to legislate for the X case. The fact that 20 years after a Supreme Court ruling the Oireachtas has absolutely failed to vindicate the rights of citizens, or ensure that where there is a real and substantial threat to the life of a mother a pregnancy can be terminated, is a damning indictment of this country and of the legislators who have served in successive Dáil terms since then. It is simply unacceptable for us to allow that situation to continue on our watch. I understand the report of the working group was on the desk of the Minister for Health last night, according to the Taoiseach. Has the Minister read the report?

Previously in the House the Minister has stated that he would act. Will the Minister give a commitment now to the people, especially to Irish women who are looking on with shock and disdain for the Oireachtas because of our failure to legislate on this crucial public health issue? Will the Minister bring forward the necessary legislation to provide for the protection for women throughout the duration of their pregnancy? Will he ensure that where their lives are at risk all procedures will be available in our hospitals including, where necessary, a termination to protect the life of the mother?

The Minister will be judged on how he acts on this issue and on whether he fails to deal with it or whether he has the courage to act on it. The thousands of people who have contacted us and who are in shock because of this issue want answers and an explanation about how this has been allowed to go on.

Deputy Mick Wallace

Savita Halappanavar would most likely still be alive if she had chosen any 44 of 47 European countries. Sadly for her and all those belonging to her she chose Ireland. We have just held a referendum on the rights of children. It was passed and now we will proceed to legislate for it, rightly so.

There have been two referendums on the Supreme Court judgment of 1992 which ruled that abortion was legal in Ireland where a woman's life was at risk, including where there was a threat of suicide, but we have not yet legislated for it. Six Governments have failed to legislate despite the people having spoken on two occasions. Why is this? When I challenged the Minister for Health in the Dáil in November last year about the Government's failure to prioritise the issue, he replied that the Government has many priorities. Clearly, this is not at the top of the list. When asked about abortion in an interview with Time magazine in September the Taoiseach stated that he thought the issue was not a priority for the Government at the time.

The failure to pass the Bill, which we introduced last April, to legislate for the X case is damning. Would Savita Halappanavar be alive today if we had done so? The people expect us to legislate in their best interests. Did we fail to do so? Did a majority of Deputies here on that night last April believe it was right to vote "Yes" to legislate for something six Governments had failed to do? Instead, they decided to play politics with us, set up yet another group to examine the matter and in the process the Government become the seventh to kick the can down the road. Many people must dearly wish that vote result had been different. In recent days Ms Halappanavar's husband said that if this had happened in the United Kingdom or India the whole thing would have been over in a matter of hours. He also said that the matter was altogether in the hands of those in the hospital but that they simply let her go. How could they let a young woman go to save a baby who would die anyway? Savita Halappanavar could have had many babies. It is difficult to understand how this could happen in the 21st century.

Deputy Clare Daly

When myself and Deputies Wallace and Joan Collins moved our Bill earlier this year, supported by the United Left Alliance, Savita Halappanavar was not even pregnant, now she is dead. The situation that we warned about at that time, and hoped would never happen, has happened. I am boiling mad that this has occurred in this country. It would appear that this beautiful young woman is dead as a result only of political cowardice. The failure of successive Governments, including this Government, to provide for a woman's constitutional right to an abortion where her life is in danger is absolutely outrageous.

Today we have been inundated by the world's media about this situation and by citizens of every age, gender and class. They have asked how this could happen in modern-day Ireland. When we moved the Bill in April we were informed that it would not happen, that our Bill was unnecessary and that a woman's life was always protected in Ireland. The people who said that were wrong. The people who asked us to wait for the expert group to produce its report in July - I understand the Minister of Health received it last night - were wrong too.

Death and loss are always tragic but when a death occurs for no reason it is truly and utterly heartbreaking and it enters the realm of being a crime. The Taoiseach told us this morning that Savita Halappanavar could not be brought back and that nothing we could do would undo that fact and that is clearly true. However, we can provide her family with answers and give citizens in this country an assurance that it will never happen to any other woman again. We can only do this if we act now. Will the Minister assure us that there are no similar cases in existence? Will he instruct a full investigation of all maternity hospitals? I understand there were two deaths in the Coombe Women and Infants University Hospital recently. Will the Minister act now on secure independent review procedures for maternal deaths in our maternity hospitals? Will the Minister legislate now?

Acting Chairman (Deputy Michael McCarthy)

Thank you, Deputy. Your time is up.

Deputy Clare Daly

He did not listen to us in April but I hope he listens to us now.

Deputy Joan Collins

We must consider this from the point of view of Ms Savita Halappanavar's husband, Praveen. He has come out publicly because he does not want this to happen to any woman ever again. He does not want any other woman to endure the tragedy he has had to face in recent days.

On 21 October Savita Halappanavar presented at the University Hospital Galway with back pain.

She was informed that she was miscarrying and that it would be over in two and a half to three hours. On Monday morning, in severe pain, she asked for a termination of the pregnancy. She was refused and told it could not be done. When she was in more pain on Tuesday morning, she and her husband asked the same question and again she was refused and told it was not going to happen until the foetal heartbeat stopped. She became terribly sick on the Tuesday night, suffering from fever. When the foetal heartbeat was checked on Wednesday, it had stopped. The medical personnel removed the foetus from the womb, but in the next few days Savita became extremely ill, eventually dying of septicaemia. From the time her cervix was dilated, she was open to serious infection - it was similar to having an open head wound - and Savita was left without proper care and without immediate action.

If our Bill had been accepted by the Government, we could have prevented this, as the doctors in that hospital would have been protected by legislation in assisting Savita. It is a damning indictment of six successive Governments that they have refused to take matters into their own hands and make a decision on it. It is a shame that we have allowed this to happen. The European Court of Human Rights has found that successive Governments have failed to vindicate the Constitution.

We must hear the Minister's comments today on the following two matters. There should be an independent public investigation into this incident within a specific timeframe, and the Minister should allow time for our Bill to come through. He can propose amendments to it, but let us bring it into the Dáil immediately.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

It is truly incredible that it is 20 years since the terrible and tragic circumstances of the X case, which led to an enormous public outcry about the Supreme Court judgment and to referendums that concluded that abortion must be allowed where there is a threat to the life of the mother. Twenty years on, after nothing but political cowardice and dithering, we have been led to a situation in which tragic and terrible circumstances have caught up with us and forced us to recognise the abysmal failure and political cowardice of successive Governments.

The late Ms Savita Halappanavar, a 31-year-old woman, was the victim of that political failure and cowardice. A woman in agony, begging for a termination of her pregnancy in order that she could be treated and possibly have her life saved, was denied such a procedure, according to the reports, because of the law that successive Governments have refused to change despite the will of the people and despite the terrible circumstances of the X case 20 years ago. This is a tragedy resulting from political failure and cowardice. Will the Minister do something about this to ensure that it never happens again, that there is justice for the late Ms Halappanavar's family and that there is an investigation that will establish how this awful tragedy could have happened?

Deputy Joe Higgins

The tragic death of Ms Savita Halappanavar at Galway University Hospital followed the denial of a medical termination of an unviable pregnancy. According to her husband, when Ms Halappanavar requested a termination she was refused and allegedly told, "This is a Catholic country." Medical commentary today suggests a termination in Ireland under these circumstances would normally happen. This raises the following questions. Is there, in University Hospital Galway, a so-called ethos of opposition in principle to abortion to save a woman's life? Are there other hospitals that demand a young woman's life to be criminally sacrificed for a Catholic so-called ethos? If so, the Minister should name these hospitals. This is a monstrous, medieval, obscurantist imposition on the Ireland of the 21st century. We must have a directive forthwith from the HSE to all hospitals that necessary termination of pregnancies is provided for in any eventuality in which a woman's life is in danger. Will the Minister insist that such a HSE directive issues immediately?

The Taoiseach's response this morning to the tragic death of Ms Halappanavar was pathetically deficient. Like a scared rabbit caught in headlights, he counselled that there should be no rush to make a judgment on legislation for the X case. Would somebody tell this out-of-touch Taoiseach that it is 20 years since legislation was demanded? I support the introduction of legislation on the X case judgment, but I must say as well that counterposing the health and life of a woman against those of her unborn child is unacceptable. The health and life of women are paramount. Therefore, we need to provide free, safe and legal abortion facilities, to avail of which is the choice of the women concerned.

Lastly, people power - the power of women and men united - must be brought to bear immediately on this laggardly Government. That is why everybody should support the Garden of Remembrance demonstration on Saturday in Dublin at 4 p.m., to ensure there is no further delay.

Deputy Catherine Murphy

It is appalling even to consider that a tragedy like this was allowed to happen. There can be no argument with the assertion by the late Ms Halappanavar's husband, Praveen, that what happened to her cannot be allowed to happen in this country again.

Earlier this year, I supported the Bill introduced by Deputy Clare Daly that might have prevented this tragedy from occurring, but unfortunately that Bill was defeated by the Government. While action is now too late for Savita and her family, it is not too late to protect other women from this horrific experience. The equal right to life for the mother and the unborn child must be acknowledged, and for that to happen we must take action immediately.

The Offences Against the Person Act 1861 is the law that governs this area. It imposes a penalty of penal servitude for life on a woman who procures an abortion, and provides that a medical practitioner who provides an abortion is guilty of a misdemeanour. There would of course be potential professional sanctions, up to and including being struck off. We are putting the patient and the practitioner in an impossible position by acknowledging the equal right to life but completely failing to create a mechanism to determine how that right can be vindicated. The European Court of Human Rights has categorically concluded that it cannot be left in the hands of the individual medical practitioner, guided by only Supreme Court judgments, to determine what does and does not constitute a real and substantial risk to the life, as distinct from the health, of the mother. I emphasise "as distinct from the health", as the difficulty lies with where one draws that line. We cannot even seek best international practice on this because it is widely acknowledged throughout the world that it is an extraordinarily difficult distinction to make.

Nothing can bring this beautiful young woman back to her family, but what we can do is to ensure no other woman suffers the same fate.

Minister for Health (Deputy James Reilly)

I extend my sympathy to the family of Ms Savita Halappanavar on their loss. My aim and the role of my Department is to improve the health and well-being of all people in Ireland in a manner that promotes better health for everyone, fair access, responsive and appropriate care delivery and high performance. In particular, our focus is on ensuring the provision of a safe, quality-assured, patient-centred and efficient health service. Nationally, we are focused on ensuring patient safety, quality and excellence in the health care system. It is important, therefore, that we have systems in place to minimise the risk of occurrence of such incidents and to detect and respond appropriately to them when they do occur.

Deputy Mick Wallace has made a serious allegation before the full facts are known when he stated that this tragedy would have been avoided if treatment had been given elsewhere. Deputy Clare Daly is prejudging the outcome of the coroner's report, which will be an independent report.

Important developments in recent years in the area of health and safety include the establishment of the directorate of quality and patient safety, the enhancement of clinical governance and the ongoing development of clinical care programmes in the HSE.

Important contributions to patient safety have been made through HIQA's reports and the Safer Better Healthcare Standards, published in June this year, will also enhance patient safety. I am as concerned as others about recent maternal deaths. The death of Savita Halappanavar in UCHG on 28 October 2012, as reported widely in the media today, is a cause of great concern and was notified to my Department by the HSE. The incident was escalated directly from the hospital for the attention of the HSE's national incident management team, NIMT, on 1 November, in accordance with its risk and incident escalation procedure, which outlines the steps that must be taken by managers to escalate risks and incidents, as appropriate, that occur within their own service. This procedure is to be used in circumstances where a national or integrated response is required. The two investigations referred to earlier are currently underway. In addition, a coroner's inquest will take place into the matter. The HSE investigations are being undertaken to establish the facts in this case and to identify the factors that contributed to this tragic death. The outcome of the investigation reports must be awaited before commenting further. In accordance with HSE policy, the investigation teams will work closely with family members at all times and keep them fully informed of the terms of reference of the investigation.

As Deputies may be aware, the current legal position on abortion in Ireland, set out in Article 40.3.3o of the Irish Constitution and interpreted by the Supreme Court in 1992, provides that it is lawful to terminate a pregnancy in Ireland if it is established, as a matter of probability, that there is a real and substantial risk to the life, as distinct from the health, of the mother, which can be avoided only by a termination of the pregnancy. In addition, the current Medical Council's Guide to Professional Conduct and Ethics for Registered Medical Practitioners, 2009, sets out the position on abortion as follows:

'21.1. Abortion is illegal in Ireland except where there is a real and substantial risk to the life (as distinct from the health) of the mother. Under current legal precedent, this exception includes where there is a clear and substantial risk to the life of the mother arising from a threat of suicide. You should undertake a full assessment of any such risk in light of the clinical research on this issue.

21.2. It is lawful to provide information in Ireland about abortions abroad, subject to strict conditions. It is not lawful to encourage or advocate an abortion in individual cases.

21.3. You have a duty to provide care, support and follow-up services for women who have an abortion abroad.

21.4. In current obstetrical practice, rare complications can arise where therapeutic intervention (including termination of a pregnancy) is required at a stage when, due to extreme immaturity of the baby, there may be little or no hope of the baby surviving. In these exceptional circumstances, it may be necessary to intervene to terminate the pregnancy to protect the life of the mother, while making every effort to preserve the life of the baby.

The Deputies are aware that, on foot of the judgment of the European Court of Human Rights in the A, B and C v. Ireland case and to fulfil a commitment included in the programme for Government, the Government established an expert group, drawing on appropriate medical and legal expertise, with a view to making recommendations on how this matter should be properly addressed. The deliberations of the expert group have concluded and its report was submitted to the Department late yesterday evening. I will consider the content and implications of the report before discussing them with my Cabinet colleagues. In this regard, I have asked my officials to examine the report and revert to me once that work has been completed.

Deputy Patrick Nulty

I respect the views of everybody in this House. They are entitled to their views, but what they are not allowed to do is obstruct or undermine the constitutional rights of citizens in this country. Where, as the Minister stated in his reply, there is a risk to the life of the mother and where a termination is feasible, it should be allowed. In this country we have failed to legislate for 20 years. I have one question for the Minister, namely, will he, as Minister for Health, legislate for the X case - yes or no?

Deputy Mick Wallace

The Minister quoted the Medical Council guidelines which are relevant but they do not protect doctors. The 1861 Offences Against the Person Act states that the maximum punishment is "penal servitude for life" in the case of a doctor making a call in such cases and he or she can be prosecuted. That law remains in place and there is no protection for a doctor who makes such a call. Legislation can do that and I plead with the Minister not to waste any more time in legislating for the X case.

Deputy Clare Daly

The Minister's response is totally inadequate. It is the case that abortion is lawful in Ireland where a woman's life is in danger but this woman's life was in danger and now she is dead. Clearly, something is not right. Clearly, legislation is needed. It is not good enough to say we have to await the investigation. We know enough to know that we can stand over everything we have said. I must point out that we have a different system from that which operates in the UK, whereby we do not have a national independent review, systematically, of maternal deaths or automatic autopsies. The Minister must put in place such measures. He has not assured me that there are no other similar cases to the one we are discussing. What will the Minister do to provide that information to us? Will he assure the House that we will be able to discuss these issues next week when he has considered the report of the expert group? Will he tell us when he is going to introduce legislation? If he does not, we will re-introduce - with the amendments suggested by the Minister - the Bill we moved in April.

Deputy Joan Collins

There is a lack of urgency on the part of the Government with regard to what has happened in recent days. The Minister did not respond to Deputy Clare Daly's question as to whether there have been similar cases of maternal death in recent times. I ask him to answer that question definitively - yes or no. We will resubmit our Bill in the near future if the Government does not move on this issue.

The expert group set up after the ruling of the European Court of Human Rights was due to report last December. The deadline was then extended to the summer and then to the autumn. At this stage the report is almost 11 months overdue. We want that report in the public domain, that is, circulated among Cabinet members and then to all Deputies. We want to see the report and we want change. We want the necessary legislation introduced quickly.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

Given the terrible circumstances surrounding the death of Savita, the Minister's response is grossly inadequate and utterly fails to acknowledge his responsibility and the responsibility of the Government to act to ensure there could be no question of a woman's life being threatened because she could not receive the medical treatment she needed because of the current legal situation in this country. The Minister seems to imply there is no impediment in law to a woman receiving necessary treatment in these circumstances, but there is. At the very least, it is a grey area and we know that in this case, a woman begged, in agony, for treatment that could have saved her life but was denied it because the medical practitioner believed it could not be done within the law. The Minister must act and must take responsibility.

Deputy Joe Higgins

Like the Taoiseach, the Minister's response to the tragic death of Savita Halappanavar is utterly inadequate. There is prima facie evidence which makes a powerful case that her life could have been saved with the termination of her unviable pregnancy. The Minister had a prepared script but now I ask him to answer the questions that are being put. Are there hospitals in this State whose ethos denies a termination to a woman in these circumstances, where her life is in danger? Is that the case? What action will the Minister take? Will he instruct the HSE to instruct each hospital, forthwith, to provide all medical procedures, including terminations, where a woman's life is in danger? When will the Minister publish the expert group's report? I ask him to give us a date, now that he has the report. When will he publish legislation providing for this? I again appeal to men and women, young and old, all over this country, to mobilise immediately to secure the necessary action from the Government.

Deputy Catherine Murphy

The nightmare for this family is not in the past. The nightmare is only beginning. They have their loss and now they are facing into things like inquests and inquiries.

The reality is that she was not even given a chance.

This problem arises because we have no mechanism for vindicating the equal right to life of the mother. When will this legislation be brought forward in order that the decision will not be down to individual hospitals or practitioners?

Deputy James Reilly

This is a difficult time for the family of Savita in light of the loss it has sustained. I recognise that Deputies wish to discuss broader issues and people have spoken about ministerial responsibility. This Government has many responsibilities, one of which is not to prejudge a situation. One of the Deputies opposite referred to the clinician concerned as "he". Is that Deputy sure the clinician was male? I make this point because while I am privy to certain facts I am not in a position to share them. This is why I ask for time to prepare an independent report which will outline the truth of what happened. Deputies have raised questions about a Catholic ethos inhibiting people from providing proper medical treatment as defined by the Medical Council. I have no evidence of this but I will not pre-empt what a coroner's court may find. I will await the conclusions of the independent investigation that a coroner always undertakes.

I am the first to admit that in the past the independence of the HSE in investigating itself has raised questions. However, the new structures we have put in place, with an individual of the calibre of Dr. Philip Crowley being involved in the investigation, give me much greater confidence than I would have had in the past. I want to see a truly independent investigation which does not give rise to any question or perception of lack of independence.

This is a terrible tragedy for Savita's family but it is also an emotionally traumatic time for the staff involved. Some of the comments made today would seek to deny them the due process to which these individuals are entitled. That is unfair. My concern is to put the patient first and above everything else. I cannot say one way or another whether there was hesitation because of moral or religious beliefs, although I doubt there was. If there was such hesitation, however, it would be an extremely serious matter. As a doctor, I am aware that in cases where a miscarriage is inevitable medical experts consider allowing it to occur naturally to be the safest option. There may, however, come a point where it is not the safest option and intervention must take place. That is a general comment and it does not relate to the specific case. I again express my deepest sympathy on behalf of the Government to the family of Savita.

Dáil Éireann díospóireacht - Wednesday, 14 Nov 2012