Vol. 1036 No. 1
82. Deputy Catherine Connolly asked the Minister for Social Protection further to Parliamentary Question No. 56 of 9 February 2023, the status of the development of the straw-man proposal for the restructuring of long-term disability payments; the timeline for the public consultation; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [15173/23]
My question is very specific in relation to the status of the development of the straw-man proposal for the restructuring of long-term disability payments. It is a most unfortunate title, the straw-man proposal. I do not know who picked it. I doubt if it was the Minister. The Minister will be aware that this arises out of the roadmap for social inclusion. It was one of the commitments. We have had two assessments of that and we are in the middle of a review of it. I will come back to the concerns in relation to these disability payments. I would be grateful if the Minister could update me on it.
The purpose of a straw man is it is a rough outline, you can change it and consultation will lead to changes based on what the views are on the ground.
The development of a straw man is based on a commitment under the roadmap for social inclusion to develop and consult on a straw-man proposal for the restructuring of long-term disability payments.
The straw man also intends to simplify the system and take account of the concerns expressed in the Make Work Pay report, the Pathways to Work report and the findings of the cost of disability report.
Work on the straw man is at an advanced stage and I expect it to be published during quarter 2. I intend to carry out a wider consultation process with all stakeholders and advocacy groups following publication.
The Indecon cost of disability report is also feeding into the preparation of the straw-man reform proposals.
The report identified that the cost of disability is a wider issue than income supports and runs across a number of Government areas, including housing, equipment, aids and appliances, care and assistance services, mobility, transport, communications, medicines, and additional living expenses. There is not a single typical cost of disability. Rather, there is a spectrum from low to high additional costs, depending on individual circumstances. As the findings of this research have implications for many areas of public policy, a whole-of-government perspective is needed. As such, the report was referred to the national disability inclusion strategy steering group, chaired by the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte.
In terms of income supports, budget 2023 included a combination of lump sums, increases to income disregards and increases to core weekly payment rates for disabled people. A further cost-of-living payment is due to be paid in April.
Work continues to support disabled people into work. In July, my Department commenced an early engagement process with disability allowance recipients aged between 18 and 22 years. This process will be expanding to other age groups over time. My Department is also finalising a review of the reasonable accommodation fund. In budget 2023, I announced an additional €1 million in funding to support the review's recommendations.
The Minister is normally direct with me and I am direct with her.
It is more than three years since the commitment was given, yet there is not even a rough estimate of the straw-man proposal. The roadmap for social inclusion was published three years ago. It followed on from the 2017 report, which found that the system of supports for people with disabilities was complex and could be difficult for people to navigate. What is the delay? What is happening? I last asked a question on this matter in February, when I was told that the proposal was at an advanced stage. Where does it stand? Three years have passed. There has been the cost of disability report, which the Dáil has discussed, and we know the complexities involved. What we want is a new approach that recognises the number of people with disabilities and the myriad challenges they face. We need payments that empower them to participate fully in society.
The Deputy is right about me giving her straight answers. She likes specifics. We will publish the straw man by mid-May. It is called a straw man because people will be able to make submissions, we will engage with them and the stakeholders, and it is open to change. The outcome of public consultation will influence the final reform proposals.
The cost-of-disability issue is considerably wider than the income support system and will not be addressed through income supports alone. Indecon, in its cost of disability report, estimated that the overall annual cost of disability ranged from €9,482 to €11,374. Costs vary due to a number of factors, such as age, household type and the nature and severity of the disability.
During my tenure as Minister, I have made many changes to support people with disabilities because I am conscious that there are many challenges for them.
I realise that the Minister is doing her best, but there is a history of inaction on disability payments.
I am afraid so, Minister. Indecon's cost of disability report was published on 7 December 2021 but was commissioned in 2018. It set out that income supports alone would not be sufficient. We knew that, which is why we are undertaking the unfortunately titled "straw man" proposal. It is the daftest title for a proposal I have ever heard of.
The Minister has stated that the proposal will be published in mid-May and that there will be further consultation, but is there a timeframe for action on disability payments to be taken so that they are fit for purpose and empower people with disabilities to live and take part in democracy and society as best they can?
The Government has done a great deal to assist people with disabilities. Last November, for example, I announced a disability support grant of €500. This was welcomed by the Disability Federation of Ireland. We had the carer's support grant, but the disability support grant was a new concept. From 1 January, domiciliary care allowance increased by €20.50 to €330 per month. I was the first Minister to increase this payment since 2009.
Could the Minister just give us dates, please?
When issues with Catherine's Law were brought to my attention, I changed it. We have done a list of things.
I have given the Deputy the date of mid-May for the straw-man proposal to be published. It will then have to go out to consultation. We will need to give that consultation time to take place. A great deal of work is going into this proposal. My officials work hard on putting such proposals together. It takes time.
83. Deputy Michael Moynihan asked the Minister for Social Protection the number of employers that applied for the disability awareness support scheme in 2022; the number of employers who were successful and received this funding; if there are plans to promote the scheme among the business community in 2023; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [14923/23]
How many employers applied for the disability awareness support scheme in 2022, how many were successful and received this funding, are there plans to promote the scheme among the business community, and will the Minister make a statement on the matter?
The development and provision of services and policies to improve employment opportunities for people with disabilities operates through a cross-government framework with other Departments, agencies and, importantly, disability sector representatives. The disability awareness support scheme provides a contribution towards cost-of-disability awareness training for private sector employers. Funding of up to €20,000 is available, with 90% of the eligible training costs funded in the first year and 80% funded in subsequent years. The training to be delivered must provide clear and accurate information about disability, address questions that employers or employees may have and cover anti-discrimination and equal opportunities legislation.
The grant is demand led, so the number and value of the grants provided are linked to the number of applications received. In 2022, four employers applied for funding under the scheme, with three receiving funding. The total value of the grants issued in 2022 was €14,531.
It is clear that the low uptake of the grant needs to be examined. Under the comprehensive employment strategy, my Department has committed to undertake a review of the scheme. The aim of the review is to improve the effectiveness of the scheme. The work for this review is being scoped and it is expected that the review will commence later this year. In addition, my Department continues to promote the grant among employers and raise awareness of the supports available. In 2022, my Department held 668 employer events where supports promoted included the disability awareness support scheme. There are plans to build on this in 2023. The scheme is also promoted through contracted public employment service providers such as EmployAbility and by the Employers for Change service, which is funded by the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth and aims to deliver a national employer disability information service.
I thank the Minister for her reply. Employers are looking to this scheme to see how they can support people with disabilities. Has the Department considered people with disabilities who are returning to the workforce? I welcome the Minister's recent initiative on increasing the money that people can earn from work. Each week, our committee examines the available supports that encourage people with disabilities who want to return to the workforce for its therapeutic value and the sense of self-worth it provides as much as for anything else. Has the Department a view on how successful those supports are and, in light of its therapeutic value, mental health value and sense of self-worth, how we can get people back to work, even if only on a part-time basis, without their secondary benefits being stopped?
That may be outside the Minister's Department but she might comment on it.
As the Deputy said, when people commence employment they can avail of an income disregard of €165 per week. I increased it to that amount in budget 2023. In addition, 50% of earnings between €165 and €375 are also disregarded for the purpose of the means test. The partial capacity benefit allows people who are in receipt of invalidity pension or illness benefit to enter or return to employment or self-employment and continue to receive partial or full payment. Earlier, I spoke about the strawman proposal we are publishing on disability. As I said, it will be published in mid-May and we will get feedback. I will be happy for people to give their views on how we can improve it. At the moment we have a flat rate disability allowance payment of €220. Everyone gets the same payment regardless of the level of disability. Perhaps we need to look at targeting it more and at other changes. The strawman will be published and I will welcome the Deputy's views on it.
I look forward to the report. Many people will be trying to put forward views on the report when it is published. The Minister stated it will be published in May. Will there be a period thereafter when Members will have an opportunity, either at committee level or in the House, to discuss the report and put our views forward? Many Members will have views about how we should go forward and try to encourage employees into the workforce and employers, not only for employment purposes but also for a sense of self-worth.
We all want to bring about workplaces that are disability friendly. I welcome the fact that the Minister is talking about reviewing the disability awareness support scheme. Will she consider having a review of the workplace equipment adaptation grant? There has been a very low take-up of the grant. It can facilitate employers to get assistive technologies that may help those with disabilities. We dealt with the issue earlier at a meeting of the Joint Committee on Autism. We must facilitate third level institutions and people who are involved in support services for disabled people. Perhaps they could get it before the job interview. We must allow flexibility. We do not want employers to have to pay the money up-front, especially smaller employers who might not have all the resources a large employer would have. We have to look at engaging the Intreo workforce to engage with employers from the point of view of facilitating those with disabilities in the workplace.
The disability awareness training support scheme is the most under-used and misunderstood grant. Employers are often unaware of the grants and supports available from the Department of Social Protection. The scheme gives grant assistance of up to 90% of the cost of a disability awareness training programme. I welcome that the Minister will be running an awareness campaign. The lack of communication and information is critical. I also ask the Minister if she will send me the numbers for County Carlow.
I thank the Minister for having this scheme and I compliment her on it. I do not expect her to have the answer to my question tonight but she might ask her Department for one. State agencies and local authorities are all supposed to hire a quota of people with disabilities, to give them an opportunity in life to be able to get a job. I wonder whether some of the local authorities, State agencies or Government Departments are taking that role seriously. It is important to give people with a disability opportunities because they have a disability. They are intelligent, bright and well capable of doing work or doing a job if they get the opportunity. Will the Minister get her Department to talk to other Departments, State agencies and local authorities to ensure each of them is taking in the quota the Government has recommended over the years? The Minister has worked hard over the years. Her heart is in the right place. She has certainly helped and supported people with disabilities in her targeted approach in budgets. She has done a superb job and I thank her for that.
I take on board what the Deputy says about the need to advertise the reasonable accommodation fund more. It is available. I put an additional €1 million into it. It means employers can get support for specialised equipment to refurbish offices to make them accessible for people with disabilities. The Deputy is also correct that we also need to ensure people are aware of the disability awareness support scheme. A report on the reasonable accommodation fund is due to be published in quarter 2 of 2023. We have done a review of the fund and we will look at how we can make it better and make people more aware of it.
I take Deputy Ring's point about the number of people with disabilities who are employed. I do not know if we have that figure, but I will try to get it for the Deputy. I am happy to talk to the local authorities. I will send the figures for Carlow to Deputy Murnane O'Connor.
I am happy to engage with people because I do not want people with disabilities to encounter barriers to work. I want to break down those barriers. A number of different approaches are needed. I want to do it.
84. Deputy Gary Gannon asked the Minister for Social Protection if her Department will ensure that households that have accumulated significant debts, including arrears on bills and on prepayment meters, have access to sufficient support to avoid a long-term legacy of indebtedness and reduced financial resilience among the poorest households in Ireland; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [15179/23]
Will the Minister for Social Protection ask her Department to ensure that households that have accumulated significant debts, including arrears on bills and prepayment meters, have access to sufficient support to avoid a long-term legacy of indebtedness and reduced financial resilience among the poorest households in Ireland?
The Department of Social Protection has an important role in supporting the most vulnerable in society. It is important to note that the Commission for Regulation of Utilities, CRU, is currently running a public campaign informing people of their rights if they are struggling with utility payments. It also notifies people that providers are obliged to work with them on a payment plan. From the Department of Social Protection's perspective, the supplementary welfare allowance scheme provides, where necessary, additional needs payments to help to meet essential expenses that people cannot pay from their weekly income such as arrears that have accumulated on energy bills and on prepay meters. The Government has approved €66 million for the additional needs payment schemes and €3.27 million for recurring supplements in 2023. This is a demand-led scheme with no budget cap. Payments are made at the discretion of the officers administering the scheme who consider all the relevant circumstances of the case to ensure the payments target those most in need of assistance. This assistance is available to anyone who needs it, even those who are working but on a low income.
In response to the ongoing cost-of-living pressures, budget 2023 saw the largest social protection package in the history of the State at a total of €2.1 billion. Some €1.1 billion of this package has been targeted to provide a wide range of lump-sum payments and provided for a wide range of assistance to alleviate the cost-of-living pressures, including the autumn cost-of-living double week payment; the double payment of child benefit to support families with children which was paid alongside the regular child benefit payment in November 2022; a €400 lump-sum fuel allowance payment; a €200 lump-sum payment for pensioners and people with a disability receiving the living alone allowance; a €500 lump-sum payment to families in receipt of the working family payment, disability allowance, the blind pension, the invalidity pension and the carer's support grant; a 100% Christmas bonus which was paid to all long-term social welfare recipients; and a €12 across-the-board increase on all social welfare payments. Crucially, a €200 spring bonus will also be paid to all long-term social welfare recipients at the end of April 2023 and an additional €100 per child to support families with children will be paid alongside the regular child benefit payment in June 2023.
I thank the Minister of State for his response. If we cast our minds back to the colder months of last year and early this year, in November, December and January, the issue on most of our lips was energy poverty and the number of families being cast into it. Two in every five households were experiencing energy poverty at that time. If we turn then to today, while the weather has changed and the dependence on heating homes is lower, the debts accrued by those families have not gone away. They had to borrow to pay for energy. They went into debt with energy suppliers. I am glad the Minister of State mentioned the additional needs payment scheme. It is important and it has been a lifeline for many families but many of the people who have been cast into poverty are probably not even aware this fund exists.
That it relies upon the discretion of an officer and a person having to go in may be an issue. We must work to provide a degree of amnesty for families who had to borrow to avoid going without.
I should also reference the €600 energy credit, which benefited bill and prepay meter users alike. Persistent difficulty with indebtedness can be helped through budgetary advice from the Money Advice & Budgeting Service, MABS. While this engagement is not a precondition for any assistance, the service provides impartial advice and expertise to help people manage money and take control of debt. It may be useful to mention that, under the supplementary welfare allowance, SWA, scheme, a supplement may be awarded to assist with ongoing or recurring costs that cannot be met from the person's own resources and are deemed to be necessary. This can include a heating supplement when a person has a need for additional heating due to ill health or infirmity. The heating supplement is not restricted to the fuel season and can be paid throughout the year. Heating supplements are payable at the discretion of the officers administering the scheme and all the relevant circumstances of the case are taken into account. There are currently 950 people in receipt of the heating supplement.
That is really important information about the heating supplement being paid outside of the winter months. How many families are aware of that? For example, if you take the figure of two out of every five families in the country being cast into energy poverty several months ago, I imagine some sort of awareness campaign is needed so people know there are supports. I accept there are supports. I do not think anybody here willingly or wantonly has cast people into energy poverty but such is the experience in family homes at the moment, they are still struggling to play catch-up with debt. That is an important initiative. There needs to be a public awareness campaign to let people know there are supports available. We also need to get in front of the issue. I believe that last week, Friends of the Earth, with which the Minister of State will be familiar, referenced that the grants were skewed towards wealthier households, with the €600 payment he mentioned being universal rather than targeted, which meant that people who suffered at the coldest end were not able to access payments to meet their full energy needs. Awareness campaigns are needed and greater targeted investments and income supports are required to alleviate what was a drastic winter for many.
It is a very important question. I came across a few cases in which people who were on prepay systems found it hard to get the household energy credit from the relevant provider. I saw a reply to a parliamentary question from the Minister, Deputy Eamon Ryan, in which he said that if people did not get their energy credit, they should go to the Department for an additional needs payment. Some of the people I know who had not been credited did not want to go to the Department seeking the additional needs payment. It may be an issue the Minister's Department should check with the Department of the Environment, Climate and Communications to check whether some of these companies are not implementing the scheme properly and then telling people to go to their local community welfare officer. That is not the spirit of the household energy support. It was supposed to be for everybody, regardless of their means.
I will answer the last question first. I recall there were significant efforts made by the Department of the Environment, Climate and Communications in relation to prepay meters. You should not be without the payment if you are on a prepay meter. We can talk about specific circumstances later but there was a separate fund set up in that Department for that.
I acknowledge the Deputy's point about universal measures. Additional needs payments are obviously very targeted, as is the heating supplement. I take his point about publicity on board. I believe there was a campaign last year that raised the number of applications. For the Deputy's information, in a point that also relates to the cohort of people we are discussing, we are currently examining developing research with the Economic and Social Research Institute, ESRI, on people in persistent poverty. It is not consistent poverty, but persistent poverty, that is, people in circumstances in which year on year and decade on decade, they still find themselves in poverty. We are aware there is a group of people who need additional help and we are examining that further with work this year.
85. Deputy Brendan Smith asked the Minister for Social Protection the progress to date on introducing a total contributions approach, aligning a person’s contributory pension more closely with the contributions they make; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [15139/23]
The programme for Government 2020 commits to the introduction of a total contributions approach aligning a person's contributory pension more closely with the contributions they make. This will include a provision for credit contributions, ensuring that people who take time off work to care for loved ones are not disadvantaged. Will the Minister outline to the House the progress to date in dealing with this issue and making good the commitment in the programme for Government?
Currently, all applicants for the contributory State pension have their entitlement assessed under the yearly average method and the interim total contributions approach, receiving the payment that is most beneficial to them. The yearly average method has been in place since the introduction of the contributory pension in 1961 and calculates the average number of social insurance contributions per year, with payments made on a banded basis. Up to 20 years of disregards can be applied under the homemaker's scheme. However, it can result in anomalies. The interim total contributions approach was introduced in January 2018. It simply adds paid and credited contributions together. Some 2,080 contributions, equivalent to 40 years, are required for a full rate payment, with pro rata payments for those who have the minimum required 520 paid contributions but less than 2,080. Up to 20 years of home caring periods can be claimed for time spent providing full-time care to children under 12 or people aged over 12 who require an increased level of full-time care.
One of the landmark reforms to the State pension system which I announced last September is a ten-year phased transition to the total contributions approach and the abolition of the yearly average method. This fairer system will calculate pension payments based on the number of social insurance contributions made by a person over his or her working life, with significant pension credits granted to people who have taken time out of the workplace for caring responsibilities. During a transition period, individual pension rates will be based on the best of the total contributions approach or a rate based on a mix of the yearly average and total contributions approaches, with the proportion accounted for by yearly average reducing from 90% to 0% over ten years and the proportion accounted for by the total contributions approach increasing commensurately. Officials in my Department are currently working on the legislation and systems to support the introduction of this change, which will be effective from 2024. I hope this clarifies the matter for the Deputy.
I welcome the progress the Minister outlined. We all remember that back in 2012, there were some changes at that time to the method of calculation which caused many difficulties for people who had worked for more than ten years full-time but had insurance contributions going back many years. I came across one case of a person who came to Dublin and worked in a pub for two weeks at 17 or 18, went to England, had no insurance contributions and then paid contributions for more than 20 years. When that person applied for a pension, it went back almost 40 years or more and he had a very poor average contribution. He had got work experience for two weeks with a publican in Dublin, who was a neighbour and a family friend. It deprived him of a decent pension. It was a total anomaly. Thankfully, that has been ironed out.
The phraseology I saw before was the total set of contributions. Is the Minister now saying that the total contributions model is more or less finalised within the Department?
Yes. We will move to a total contributions approach because it is a fairer approach. It means you get back what you paid in. It will be over a ten-year period so it will be gradual. We do not want to disenfranchise some people. When you change things, there are always those who are better off and those who are perhaps not as well off but we will do it very gradually, over a ten-year period. It will apply from the beginning of January. I am currently bringing through the legislation to make the changes for the pension reforms I announced last year. As part of that, I will also bring forward the pension for long-term carers, which the Deputy mentioned earlier to me. That means the State enhanced pension provision for long-term carers, that is, in excess of 20 years, will be introduced from January 2024. That will benefit people, especially many women, who gave up their jobs and have been caring for a child with a disability, for example, all their lives and then found they were not entitled to a pension. That will allow them contributions for the time they spent caring.
It is very important that people who were at home caring or who had to leave the workforce get the relevant credits.
This is a separate question. It was an issue that arose some years ago and I raised it with one of the Minister's predecessors. Farmers who had been on farm assist might have had a good year, gone off farm assist and through the fault of the Department, Revenue and their accountants, they were not alerted to the fact that they needed to be putting on a stamp. The Minister would have had some of the cases in her constituency - I had them - of those people who were affected having been in receipt of farm assist. The Minister may be able to check if those issues have been addressed and get the Department to drop me a note.
I came across a case recently where a gentleman had not quite made the 520 contributions. His wife is working and the household income deprives him of the non-contributory payment. He has no payment, but he is just short of 520 contributions. In the past, we had pro rata pensions for people who did not quite make the 520 contributions. Will the Minister give consideration to that again, with regard to cases such as this, where people might even get half a pension? This man might have 510 contributions but he cannot get any pension at all. The Minister might give consideration to this. We had that in the past where farmers, in particular, who came in late and did not make the full ten years were able to draw down the pro rata pension.
I am well aware of the cases raised by Deputies Smith and Stanton. One goes to one's accountant, especially if one is a self-employed farmer, and thinks one is getting advice, but sometimes one is not getting great advice because some of those who did not have to pay tax that year did not pay their PRSI. That is exactly what happened. When one reaches retirement age and discovers there are gaps in one's social welfare contributions, one can make an application to look at making up the payments, but that only goes back five years, as far as I understand it. I know Deputy Smith raised this with me before. I asked my officials to look at it. If it had been good news, I would have been back to the Deputy very quickly, but I think it was not quite as simple and straightforward as that. I will look at it again. I regularly see this situation. If there is one message to go out from the House this evening, it is for those people who find they do not have to pay tax, for whatever reason, to please make sure they pay their PRSI contribution, because they need it. That is for self-employed people.
89. Deputy David Stanton asked the Minister for Social Protection the situation regarding overpayments in respect of non-contributory pensions in circumstances where the amount of capital in the estate of a deceased person exceeds the allowed amount; when the current amount was decided; her plans, if any, to increase the amount allowed; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [15127/23]
This is one that goes back quite a number of years. It relates to people who are in receipt of the non-contributory pension and, being very frugal and careful, save up more than they are allowed. Very often, these people are elderly. They do not realise they have gone over the limit. When they pass away, there is ruaille buaille because the estate has to give the excess money back to the Department. When was the limit last reviewed? I think it was quite a while ago. I think the limit is approximately €20,000 now. Will the Minister give consideration to increasing the amount? Is there a need to inform people of this, in order that they can spend it, rather than saving it for the funeral or whatever else?
The State non-contributory pension is a means-tested payment for people aged 66 and over, habitually residing in the State, who do not qualify for the State contributory pension or who only qualify for a reduced rate contributory pension based on their social insurance record. People in receipt of the pension are notified of their obligation to inform my Department of any relevant changes in their circumstances, including increases in their means, within a period of three months, in order that their pension entitlement can be reviewed. On review, the rate of payment may increase or reduce. In cases where the means exceed the statutory limit, the payment is terminated. A failure to notify the Department of means changes can result in overpayments of pension being incurred which they or their estate, after their death, is obliged to repay.
Social welfare legislation provides that the personal representative of a deceased person who at any time received a means-tested payment is obliged to notify my Department of their intention to distribute the deceased's estate and to provide a schedule of assets. The estate assets cannot be distributed until they receive formal clearance from my Department. If, on examination of the schedule of assets, it is found that not all of the deceased’s means, from any source, had been disclosed or if the values of previously assessed means had changed, the Department will seek to recover any moneys overpaid from the estate.
The formula for capital assessment is set out in Schedule 3 to the Social Welfare Consolidation Act 2005, as amended, and was introduced in 2005. The various means test structures operated by my Department are kept under regular review and a number of significant changes have been made in recent years. I have also committed to carrying out a broad review of means testing this year, which will include a review of how capital is assessed. Any further changes to the means tests would need to be considered in a policy and budgetary context.
I thank the Minister for that very positive response. I think the Minister said the figure was set in 2005. Am I right in saying it is €20,000 at present? Has the Minister given any consideration to raising the amount and to informing people that saving up all their pension, living on bread and tea, is not doing anyone any good? People worry about nursing home payments, the funeral and everything else and they might pass on not having looked after themselves properly while they were alive. A considerable sum of money is left in the bank. The Minister's Department takes it back and rightly so. That is what the law says, but it can cause angst among relatives who might have been looking after the person and not getting any payment for it, in some cases, and so forth. Is any consideration being given to raising the amount people can have? Will the Minister consider informing people - I know they are informed when they sign on for the pension initially - on a more regular basis that if they are drawing this pension, they should not really go over the amount because it will have an impact? Older people very often might not realise that and may need to be told. I come across people who do not know.
An individual who has capital amounting to €40,000, or €80,000 for a couple, and no other income or means will receive the maximum rate of the State non-contributory pension. I take the Deputy's point. One could have a single person living on nothing who could manage to survive on very little. I would say it could be the clippings of the tin, which would be very little. They manage to accumulate all these savings. They think they will leave their family a pile of money when they pass away, but then they discover they should not have filled that form in 20 years ago and given that information. They discover they have to pay it back. I know of a 96-year-old woman. I said not to annoy her and to let it come out of the estate. I asked that she not be written to and her head annoyed, at 96, saying she owed one-hundred-and-something thousand to social welfare, because she was on a non-contributory pension. I take the Deputy's point. I can tell the Deputy now that it is up to the person. How would social welfare know when their savings had gone over a certain limit? We could not take it upon ourselves, as much and all as we like to help people, to write to them to remind them of these things. The onus is on people. We do a review of non-contributory pensions.
Will the Minister, maybe not now but later on, tell me how much has been clawed back in the past two or three years from people and estates? Would the Minister agree with me that it would be a good idea to remind people, on a regular basis, that if the amount in their account goes over a certain level, it will have an impact on their pension? Maybe they should be spending it and enjoying themselves, rather than, as the Minister said, living out of a tin or living on bread and tea. Older people can be quite frugal and really worry about the future of money. They do not realise if they save this up, it will be clawed back. It can cause angst among relatives afterwards. They come to our offices to give out about the Government robbing the dead, which is a term that is very often used. I suggest an information campaign to the Minister, to let people know they should enjoy themselves, spend this money and not oversave. I have come across one person who had €120,000 saved. The family never knew it. The money was going right into the bank and she was spending nothing. They were supporting her and never knew it was happening.
I support Deputy Stanton. We get many people like that coming into our constituencies over the years, especially elderly people. Sometimes, they do not realise the kind of money they have in the bank. I ask the Minister to look at the disregard. It is too low. The big problem, which Deputy Stanton talked about, is where family members pay for everything for their mother and father or whatever the case may be, when they are sick. They say leave the money to them and they will get it, please God, when they are deceased.
Then they find that they were on a non-contributory pension and a lot of this money has to go back to the State again. It is very unfair.
I ask the Minister to look at another issue. I do not expect her to respond this evening because it has only come to my attention recently but she might check it with her officials. Recently I had a case involving a family with a joint account. The Department told the family that they did not use the account regularly themselves. The person was actually paying for the deceased person, their food, their drink, their petrol, their diesel. I am asking the Minister to look at that. Is there a new policy? We will have to get legal advice if the Department is saying that these people have to be using the same account regularly.
We are way over time and way outside the question.
I thank Deputies Stanton and Ring. We are doing a full review of the means test at the minute. We will also look at the capital disregard, which has not been reviewed. I increased the means threshold for the fuel allowance only recently, that is, the amount of money someone can have in an account before it impacted on qualifying for that payment. We need to do a full review of it, as I said earlier.
On joint accounts, the issue that has been raised with me by Deputies is the qualified adult, where there is a husband and wife and the wife is a qualified adult. If she has money in a joint account with her partner, it is assessed and that is it. She cannot have any means to qualify for that payment. It is a bit harsh. The matter has been brought up with me. We are going to look at these issues right across the board. I am happy to hear any suggestions that anybody has in terms of how we can make it better and fairer.
90. Deputy Peadar Tóibín asked the Minister for Social Protection the number of individuals who availed of the winter fuel allowance payment in each of the past five years and to date in 2023. [15130/23]
Irish energy poverty has reached record levels. Nearly one in three households is currently in fuel poverty. That is double what the figure was when the current Government was formed in 2020. It is a startling fact. Per capita, Ireland is now also considered one of the wealthiest countries in Europe, more affluent than every other country except Luxembourg. Does the Minister see anything wrong with the incongruity in that statement? Does she see anything wrong with a situation where we have nearly one in three families in fuel poverty yet Ireland is the second richest country in Europe?
I thank the Deputy for raising this matter. As he is aware, the fuel allowance scheme is a means-tested payment to assist pensioners and other long-term social welfare dependent householders with their winter heating costs. The payment is made over the winter season from September to April at the weekly rate of €33 or, if preferred, by way of two lump-sum instalments, one in September and one in January. Only one fuel allowance is payable per household. Those who qualify for the payment do not need to reapply annually.
While we had made some improvements to the scheme in previous budgets, it was a key priority of mine and of the Government to expand the reach of the fuel allowance payment this year. In budget 2023, a more generous means test was introduced for those aged over 70, with a higher means threshold of €500 for a single person and €1,000 for a couple. Applicants aged over 70 no longer need to be receiving a qualifying social protection payment and the threshold for the capital disregard increased from €20,000 to €50,000. For those aged under 70, the means threshold was increased by €80 and is now €200 above the appropriate rate of State pension contributory for the household.
In relation to the number of individuals who are in receipt of fuel allowance, the Department generally collates these data on an annual basis. Over the past five years, at the end of December each year, the number of households supported by the fuel allowance scheme was as follows: 380,463 households in 2018; 369,255 households in 2019; 375,269 households in 2020; 374,861 households in 2021; and 393,767 households in 2022. Some 32,500 additional households have been awarded fuel allowance since the budget. Of these, over 24,000 are aged 70 or over. It should be noted that the number of recipients fluctuates as people join and exit the scheme, as their circumstances change. I trust this clarifies the matter for the Deputy.
The Minister has provided startling information. At one level we have a big increase in population and a doubling of the number of families living in fuel poverty, yet the Government's response in real figures is such that in 2018 there were 380,000 households in receipt of fuel allowance and in 2022 the figure was 393,000. That is incredible. The number of people in receipt of fuel allowance has stayed practically stationary at a time of the worst fuel and energy crisis in the history of the State. Older people are sitting in the cold during the daytime and lying awake at night wondering if they can pay their bills. Many people are under serious pressure. I know older people who are not getting out of bed until later and going to bed earlier to save on fuel bills. Yet, the Government took its biggest slice of VAT on electricity ever last year. VAT on electricity went up 40% last year; there was a 40% increase in VAT receipts during the biggest energy crisis in the history of the State. The Minister must admit there is something seriously wrong. We have rigid figures of people in receipt of fuel allowance yet we have so many people suffering from fuel poverty.
The number of recipients of fuel allowance fluctuates as people join and exit the scheme and as their circumstances change. There was a significant drop in the number of recipients of long-term jobseeker's allowance from 2018 to 2019 and this is reflected in the number of this cohort who were also in receipt of fuel allowance. The number of long-term jobseeker's allowance recipients with fuel allowance fell from 59,961 in December 2018 to 48,689 in December 2019, which was a fall of 11,272 for the scheme. We expanded the fuel allowance in the most recent budget. The Deputy himself raised with me the number of people who were just marginally over the income threshold and they were excluded, whether it was €2 or €3. Then there was a big increase for the over-70s. They could earn up to €500 per week for a single person or €1,000 for a couple. We have expanded the scheme and over 32,000 more people have received the fuel allowance since the budget.
I am startled at these figures. The Minister mentioned fluctuating numbers of people receiving fuel allowance. The price of fuel is fluctuating upwards only. There has been a massive expansion in the number of people in fuel poverty yet we have rigid figures for the number of people in receipt of fuel allowance. The Minister talks about expansion of the means test. That is because there has been a massive increase in the cost of energy. The really frustrating thing about this is that the Government has two levers in its arsenal to effect change in this. The first is the VAT on fuel - the Government is taking more than ever - and the energy companies that are making enormous profits at the moment. The Government has also talked about imposing a windfall tax some time in the future. Why is it that Fine Gael only speaks in the future tense in relation to helping people? Why can it not talk in the present tense in terms of a proper windfall tax, easing the burden in taxation and making sure there is a real expansion in the fuel allowances that are given to people?
I am grateful to the Leas-Cheann Comhairle for allowing me to contribute. If one scheme worked in recent years, it was the rules and regulations the Minister introduced in respect of the fuel allowance scheme this year. Thousands of people aged over 70 who worked all their lives and had never qualified for fuel allowance before got into that scheme. If I was to ask the Minister to do one thing, it would be to consider bringing the age limit down in next year's budget, from 70 to 69, to let more people into the scheme. That is a great scheme, which has benefited the country.
I was listening to Myles Dungan the other night. A hundred years ago, the people of rural Ireland had to bring turf into Dublin to help families to heat their homes. Now we cannot cut turf in this country.
The day might come again when we need to cut turf to help out everybody in the country.
In response to Deputy Ring, regarding those aged under 70, I increased the threshold in the budget so that people can earn €200 on top of the contributory pension. People aged under 70 can earn up to €465 and still qualify for the fuel allowance. This Government did a lot in budget 2023 to assist people who need help with the cost of fuel. There was a budget package of €2.2 billion and a major expansion of the fuel allowance. There were also energy credits, which involved €400 being paid to all households in receipt of the fuel allowance payment last November. We also paid an earlier amount in April last year. There has been the provision of €1.3 billion in cost-of-living supports and eight different lump sums were paid before Christmas. There is now another cost-of-living package. There is an increase of €200 across the board for all long-term social welfare recipients. There was a €100 back-to-school allowance and €100 for anybody in receipt of child benefit. There have been a lot of supports. It is recognised that these supports are making a difference. The ESRI has said clearly that these lump sum payments are working.
There was a real cut in social welfare rates last year, if we take inflation into account.
Moreover, there was a €12 increase in social welfare rates at the beginning of the year.
Less than the rate of inflation.
They are working. People need the payments.
93. Deputy Richard Bruton asked the Minister for Social Protection if she has undertaken an assessment of the take-up of the working family dividend and consulted with the Revenue Commissioners, which collects income data to ensure that this support is fully taken up. [14949/23]
I understand Deputy Stanton will introduce Question No. 93.
I am taking this question on behalf of Deputy Richard Bruton who sends his apologies. He is concerned about whether the Minister is undertaking an assessment of the take-up of the working family dividend and whether she has consulted with the Revenue Commissioners which collects income data to ensure this support is fully taken up. He is concerned that it may not be and, if it is not, that we act to ensure it is.
I thank the Deputy for raising this matter. The working family payment is an in-work support which provides an income top-up for employees with children on lower earnings designed to prevent in-work poverty. It is a targeted measure that is directly linked to household income and, therefore, directly supports low-income working families. The average weekly payment made to families is currently estimated at €160 per week, which is tax-free.
Approximately 48,000 families with 104,000 children are currently in receipt of the payment. The estimated expenditure on the scheme in 2023 is €362 million. In fact, we have seen a significant increase in the number of applications in recent years, with 34,372 claims received in 2022 compared with 27,854 in 2018.
Budget 2023 provided for a €40 increase in the weekly income thresholds for the working family payment from January 2023. Recipients of the payment also received a €500 cost of living payment last November and will receive a further payment of €200 next month. I am very conscious of the importance of ensuring that people are aware of and take up the payments for which they are eligible. It is difficult to accurately estimate the take-up of the scheme. It is not simply a matter of making a comparison with Revenue data, as there are eligibility requirements other than income levels in order to qualify for the scheme.
My Department recently undertook a public information campaign to promote the working family payment scheme. The objective of this campaign is to increase awareness of the working family payment and to highlight that the payment can be applied for online at mywelfare.ie. Advertising featured across a mix of print, radio and social media, with all advertising directing people to the appropriate website for information, which includes a link to mywelfare.ie. I trust this clarifies the matter for the Deputy.
I thank the Minister for a good and comprehensive response. I congratulate on her what she has done in respect of this payment. It is an important payment for working parents on low incomes. Obviously, the low income is another issue and the minimum wage is helping. There is more to come in that regard. Since the promotion the Minister mentioned has started, has there been an increase in the number of people who have applied for the payment? Does her Department have an idea as to how many people who may be entitled to payment are not claiming it?
I do not have the figures for who should be applying. We can only encourage people to consider the working family payment. It is to help people who are working. We want to encourage people who go to work and support them in doing so. That is the purpose of the working family payment.
The online application process replaced a very long paper application form. The removal of the requirement for an employer to sign part of the application is another change aimed at removing barriers for the take-up of the scheme. We have seen a significant increase in the number of applications in recent years, as I said, with 34,372 claims received in 2022 compared with 27,854 in 2018. My Department undertook a public information campaign to promote the payment, using the tagline "You might be surprised by the working family payment". The campaign aimed to promote the payment among working families on low to moderate incomes, especially those who may not realise they qualify for the payment, and to provide them with more information about the scheme.
The Minister has answered all of my questions. It is a good payment. Does the Minister plan to keep the awareness campaign going? It is very important. Not everyone is online or listens to mainstream media. There are old-fashioned communication methods, such as putting up posters in various centres around the country. People may see the information and apply for the payment. It is important that we use word of mouth, citizens' information and any other communication means possible.
The Department of Social Protection wants people to know about these schemes and take them up. They are in place to help people. As the Deputy knows, we have supported people. Budget 2023 included a social welfare package of almost €2.2 billion. There was a double weekly payment in October, a double child benefit payment in November and a Christmas bonus double payment in December. There was also a €500 cost-of-living lump sum payment to recipients of the working family payment in November and a €40 increase in the weekly income threshold for the working family payment. That all helps.
The personal rate of working age payments, such as one-parent family payment, was increased by €12, from €208 to €220 per week in January. We also increased the qualifying child rate to €42 per week in respect of a qualifying child aged under 12 and to €50 per week in respect of a qualifying child aged 12 and over. In order to help families, I also am trying to expand the school meals programme. I was delighted I was able to include that in the last announcement. All DEIS primary schools will be included in the hot school meals programme.
94. Deputy Peadar Tóibín asked the Minister for Social Protection what measures her Department is putting in place to help those affected by the ending of the eviction ban. [15132/23]
In three days' time, there is about to be an avalanche of people who will be evicted in this State. In my county, there are 127 eviction notices and 31 properties for rent. There are zero emergency accommodation beds available through the local authority. Many people are lying in their beds in fear of what is about to happen to them. What mitigation policies has the Minister put in place to help those people through eviction?
I thank the Deputy. The primary responsibility for the delivery of housing rests with the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage, which is taking new measures to put in place additional accommodation to mitigate the impact of the end of the eviction ban.
Under the supplementary welfare allowance scheme, my Department may make additional needs payments to help to meet essential expenses that a person cannot pay from their weekly income. The scheme is demand-led and there is no budget cap. Payments are made at the discretion of the officers administering the scheme, taking into account all the relevant circumstances of the case in order to ensure that the payments target those most in need of assistance, including persons experiencing difficulty resulting from the ending of the eviction ban.
This support is not restricted to those already on a social welfare payment and may also be available to those working on a low income. For homeless households or households at immediate risk of homelessness, who have a long-term housing need, a homeless housing assistance payment place finder service is operated by the local authorities. This service provides assistance by sourcing suitable accommodation and by providing access to the payment of a deposit and advance rent on behalf of the tenant.
I encourage any person who considers that they may have an entitlement to an additional needs payment to contact their local community welfare service. There is a national community welfare contact centre in place on 0818-607080, which will direct callers to the appropriate office. I trust that this clarifies the matter for the Deputy.
How many people will be evicted in this State in the next seven to ten months? What modelling has the Government done to identify the number of people who will be evicted from their homes in this country? What modelling has the Government done to find out how many houses are available and what emergency accommodation is needed in this country as a result of the policies it has taken? Is the decision taken an evidence-based one or are we going on the basis of hope or ideology?
The Minister referred to the level of additional needs. How much money does she think will be necessary to provide additional needs payments until the end of the year? How much will a family be able to draw down? What is the cost of homelessness? If one cannot get emergency accommodation from a local authority and one is faced with a tent or Garda station as one’s home, what are the costs that will be faced by individuals and what is the limit to what a family can draw down through the additional needs payments?
My Department provides the additional needs payment, which can be for rent or a deposit if needed. The scheme is demand-led, and payments are made at the discretion of the officers administering the scheme, taking into consideration the requirements of the legislation and all the relevant circumstances of the case to ensure that the payments target those most in need of assistance.
A person who is working can still have access to additional needs payments. Where someone who works is on a low income, an additional needs payment is appropriate and is not limited to those working fewer than 30 hours. There is no budgetary limit on the additional needs payment budget within the Department. It is demand-led, so it is there. It is the State’s safety net when somebody needs help. Additional needs payments can be made on a flexible basis, taking into account all the relevant circumstances of the case and the nature of the need.
I asked the Minister how many people will need the additional needs payment. How many people will be evicted?
It is demand-led.
That means it is as long as a piece of string. Surely the Government made a decision on the basis of evidence. For example, the Minister would not vote to take away protection from eviction for people with disabilities unless she knew how many people were likely to be evicted in that cohort. I am sure she would not have allowed the Government to get rid of the safeguards against evictions for people with terminal illnesses unless she knew the evidence and the modelling on how many of those people would be made homeless. How many people are going to be made homeless? Has the Minister made her decision as a Cabinet Minister on the basis of facts, figures, evidence and models from the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage, or is it based on a hunch? Many people are worried that the Government has made a decision on the eviction ban on a hunch. How many people are going to be made homeless through eviction in the next 12 months and what type of budget will be drawn down on that basis?
To be very clear, the additional needs payment is available to support people who need it. As I said to the Deputy earlier, it is a demand-led scheme. There is no budget cap.
What is the demand?
It is a demand-led scheme with no budget cap.
The Minister must have an idea of what it is going to cost.
It is there to support people when they need it.
The Minister must have an idea of how much it will cost. Is she saying she does not have any idea of what the expected level of evictions will be in the next ten months? Is she honestly saying that the Government has made such a decision-----
The Deputy is way over time.
We have 25 seconds left.
The Minister did not use her time. That is okay.
But I have asked a question and the Minister has not answered it. It is a very relevant question.
The Deputy knows well what the rules are in regard to questions. He has made his point.
It is important that the Minister responds. It is scandalous that a Government Minister would make a decision on evictions without knowing how many people will be homeless.
Deputy Tóibín should please finish. I have given him great scope.
