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Joint Committee on Public Petitions and the Ombudsmen díospóireacht -
Thursday, 8 Feb 2024

Decisions on Public Petitions Received

We have six petitions for consideration today. The first is petition No. 00033/21 entitled “Call for a Citizens Assembly on the Irish Justice system; Policing, Crime and Rehabilitation” from Mr. Cormac McKay. This petition relates to the request that the then proposed citizens' assembly on drugs be expanded to encompass the entire justice system, policing, crime and rehabilitation in the Republic of Ireland. According to the petition, there is a growing public perception and opinion that our criminal justice system is not fit for purpose and people are now living in fear. This petition was received on 31 August 2021 and the views of the Department of Justice sought on 8 September 2021. However, no response was received until recently when the petitioner emailed to inquire about the status of his petition. The updated information on this is that the secretariat sent a reminder to the Department of Justice and received the below response via the committee, dated 26 January 2024. The Department apologised for the lengthy delay in issuing this reply and stated inter alia:

There was a suggestion in the petition that the work of the Citizens’ Assembly on Drugs Use be expanded to include "the Irish Justice system, Policing, Crime and Rehabilitation". The decision to hold a citizens’ assembly on drugs use arose from a Programme for Government commitment on the formation of the Government in 2020. The holding of a citizens’ assembly and its remit were for the Government as advised by the [leading] Departments, the Department of the Taoiseach and the Department of Health. The area of drugs use is a very complex and wide-ranging issue and, in order to fully explore all relevant issues, it was not considered feasible to expand the subject matter beyond that to the wider criminal justice system, policing, crime and rehabilitation. In relation to the criminal justice system, extensive reforms have been carried out over the past number of years. For example, in the area of policing, the Commission on the Future of Policing in Ireland ... in its final report of September 2018 ... identified a large number of reforms to how our approach to policing and the wider concept of community safety, as well as national security, should be taken forward. In terms of crime and rehabilitation, the Government published the Review of Policy Options for Prison and Penal Reform in August 2022, which sets out a number of prioritised actions in relation to the penal system and which are currently being implemented. Other policies and strategies in this area which involved a wide range of public consultation include the Criminal Justice Sectoral Strategy, the Youth Justice Strategy and Zero Tolerance - Third National DSGBV Strategy, all of which are currently being implemented.

The Department concluded by saying that as outlined above:

It is clear that there has been very extensive public consultation around policing, crime and rehabilitation and a number of policies, strategies, structures and new legislation have been put in place over the past 5 years to reflect those consultations...

The recommendation is that the correspondence from the Department of Justice be forwarded to the petitioner for comment within 14 days. Do members have any views or is that agreed? The response from the Department of Justice notes that the citizens’ assembly on drugs was not extended as the petitioner suggested out of concern it would be overly broad in its remit and therefore unwieldy. Would there be a problem with running the petition by Irish Penal Reform Trust to get its views on the effectiveness or otherwise of the reform of the justice system? Can we send the petition to it and ask for its views?

(Interruptions).

Is that agreed? Agreed.

The second petition is No. P00035/22 entitled “Amend Child Care Act 1991 to Provide HIQA with the Necessary Powers to Sanction Tusla, Child and Family Agency when it Fails to Meet its Statutory Obligations” from Ms Anna Kavanagh. The Alliance of Birth Mothers Campaigning for Justice, ABC, requested that the committee initiate the necessary steps to amend the Child Care Act 1991, as amended in 2011, to provide HIQA with the powers to sanction Tusla when it fails to meet its statutory obligations. The Alliance of Birth Mothers Campaigning for Justice is Ireland’s leading advocacy group for birth mothers whose children have been taken into State care by Tusla. HIQA carries out inspections in each of Tusla’s 17 service areas. HIQA publishes the results of these inspections, the vast majority of which find serious non-compliance in one or more standards inspected. HIQA does not have the power under the Child Care Act 1991 to sanction Tusla. The latest report published by HIQA on 8 June 2022 found the Cork service area, which has 26% of the total child population of Ireland, was compliant in just two of 12 standards inspected.

The secretariat received a response from the Ombudsman for Children's Office, OCO, via the committee, dated 31 January 2024 regarding the correspondence from the petitioner. The OCO stated:

1. It is clear that ABC and the OCO are in agreement as to the value of a self-improvement model of oversight when it is working well and when all parties are working with all necessary resources and an openness to change.

2. However, ABC believes that Tusla has continuously failed to show the capability to learn and improve following numerous HIQA reports of non-compliance and poor risk management.

3. The OCO also believes that it is beyond the remit of their Office to comment on the particular employment sanctions that could be considered in cases where HIQA has identified such systemic failures if such an amendment was ... made to the Child Care Act 1991.

The OCO recommends that any further correspondence to the committee on this subject should be referred to HIQA for its opinion. The recommendation is that the correspondence from the Ombudsman for Children be forwarded to the petitioner for comment within 14 days; to send the correspondence from the petitioner to HIQA for comment within 14 days; and to invite the group thereafter to put its case to the committee and then the ombudsman. Do members have any views? Is that agreed? Agreed.

Third is petition No. 00036/22 to reopen Ennis, Nenagh and St. John's emergency departments and it is from Ms Noeleen Moran. The petition relates to the 2009 Government decision to downgrade hospitals at Ennis, Nenagh and St. John's hospitals and to close the emergency departments. This decision directly contributed to an increase in overcrowding at UHL and poorer access to healthcare for those in the mid-west. Trolley Watch data highlights the extent of this overcrowding. It is estimated that there is one extra death for every 82 patients admitted to an emergency department whose transfer to an inpatient bed is delayed beyond six to eight hours from the time of arrival at the emergency department. In June 2022, there were only three days when the numbers on trolleys was lower than 82.

The updated information we have is that the petitioner has raised concerns over the time taken to progress the petition and the lack of response from the Minister for Health. On foot of these concerns, the secretariat completed a full review of correspondence issued and received in respect of the petition. On completion of the review, it was identified that the Minister’s office had responded on 23 January 2023 and, due to an administrative error, this item was missed from the correspondence list for the committee. In the Minister's response it was stated that in 2013, the smaller hospitals framework defined the role of smaller hospitals and the need for both smaller and larger hospitals to operate within hospital groups. The Minister states that this framework provided a stronger role for smaller hospitals, like Ennis, Nenagh and St. John’s hospitals, in delivering higher volumes of less complex care in many cases closer to patients’ homes. The response goes on to state that in April 2009, a process of reconfiguration commenced with the closure of the 24-7 emergency departments in Ennis and Nenagh.

These emergency departments were replaced with medical assessment units for GP referrals, and by local injury units-urgent care centres for self-referrals, which operate 12 hours a day, seven days a week. These changes were supported by an emergency care network, which had been set up in the region and led by consultants in emergency medicine. This reorganisation coincided with the establishment of the motorway from Ennis and Nenagh, of which the response states that the travel time by ambulance between the hub and spoke was never more than 30 minutes. The object of reconfiguration was to provide safer care to patients with acute health problems while also striving to make specialised services more accessible to patients in their local hospital. Ennis and Nenagh hospitals have an integral role to play in the future growth in healthcare in this region, in the provision of ambulatory care, chronic disease management, day surgery, five-day surgery, endoscopy, local injury and medical assessment units and much more besides.

The Minister has expressed his concern about overcrowding in the emergency department in Limerick and acknowledges the distress caused to patients, their families, and front-line staff working in very challenging conditions in emergency departments in UHL and throughout the country. The HSE’s performance management improvement unit has been directed to lead a process, in partnership with UHL team members, supporting the hospital and community services in driving a programme of work to respond more effectively to the current pressures. This process will ensure that all necessary immediate steps are taken to address the issues identified, and a detailed plan is being developed to ensure that they do not reoccur.

The following four witnesses were requested to appear before the committee on Thursday, 8 February 2024 but were unable to, citing the following reasons. First, the Minister for Health, Deputy Stephen Donnelly, was unavailable on this date. Second, the SIPTU representative for health workers in the mid-west region who was involved at the time has now retired and the union will appoint a new person in that area. The third reason is in two parts, the first of which relates to the UHL clinical director for the HSE, Professor B. Lenehan. The HSE has claimed that due to the response sent by the HSE to the committee on 11 December 2023, there is no requirement for the professor to attend. The second part of this reason relates to the committee's invitation to the CEO or a representative of HSE in place of the professor. The response was they are unable to attend on this date. Fourth, in respect of representatives from HIQA involved in the UHL unannounced inspections, HIQA has said they are not available for the meeting.

The committee recommends that the correspondence from the HSE be forwarded to the petitioner for comment within 14 days. Do members have any views?

I thank the secretariat and the committee here because a phenomenal amount of work has gone into this. I am very disappointed that the four witnesses who were invited could not turn up. There is a process there, as the Chairman said, in that the correspondence from the HSE is be forwarded to the petitioner for comment; I agree with that. I do not know why the witnesses did not turn up. Was it short notice or what? I am disappointed with that. I want to put that on the record.

On the issue raised, I commend the people who put in the petition but also the Mid-West Hospital Campaign and commend all the people in the mid-west, particularly in Limerick, who are campaigning for a hospital that is fit for purpose.

I need not tell people here, but want to put on the record, that we are experiencing at present in University Hospital Limerick the most overcrowding ever. This week has probably been the worst week in history. There are 100-plus people on trolleys every day. There are 120 today. There were 150 yesterday and 138 the day before. There was no let up in 2023 when we had 21,000-plus people on trolleys there.

I can understand the reluctance of witnesses to come in. The Minister, Deputy Stephen Donnelly, would not appear. The Minister has form in this regard. The Minister is not here to defend himself but one has to call him out when he does not turn up to any debates we have on the health service.

Before the Deputy continues, the Minister has said he was not available on this date. The invitation is still there.

Has the Minister given another date when he will come in?

Not yet. We will be getting the Minister in.

I know personally, from raising Topical Issues with the Minister for Health on this issue since I was elected to the Dáil, the Minister does not turn up. It is an issue I have raised with the Ceann Comhairle and there has been a solution to it where we get junior Ministers, but often they are not from the same Department, which is totally disrespectful.

I would not be raising this issue if it was not the number one problem in the mid-west region. It is catastrophic. I spoke to a person who is 70 years of age today. He has been on a trolley for eight days. When you are on a trolley, it means you are assessed as in need for a bed and there is no bed available. The guy is 70 years of age, with a stroke and he has been eight days without a hospital bed. That is the situation there.

It is important that the petition would continue. The campaign continues until we get the health service we need in the mid-west. There was a catastrophic mistake made in 2009, closing the emergency departments without delivering what we were promised would be a centre of excellence. That centre of excellence has never materialised and we have the chaos that is going on in University Hospital Limerick.

I want to put on public record my thanks to the staff who work in that hospital. It is an incredible job they have to do there. I have been out there with family members. Everybody in Limerick is affected by this. The vast bulk of people who go to the emergency department are there for 12 hours or more. It is an incredible situation. People lack confidence. Older people tell me they will not go there.

We had meetings with the new regional executive officer. The plans from the Government will deliver 48 new beds in mid-2025. For instance, if that was there today, we would still have 102 people on trolleys during the week. Therefore, there is no plan to get us out of this. The Government has failed catastrophically and I believe that is one of the main reasons the Minister is not available to come to this meeting and other forums, such as Topical Issues. The Minister has dodged the bullet in Limerick. He has dodged the issue in Limerick. It is either because he has no solution to what is going on there or he does not care.

As I said, the Minister has said he was not able today. The invitation is still there for the Minister to come. We have had the petitioners in here already and we want the Minister and the other people.

It is disappointing that the four people who were asked to come in today have not come in. I will read out the letter that they sent in December because that is one the reasons, they say, that they did not appear today.

Before I read it out, the petitioner has raised concerns about the time taken to progress this petition. I want to reassure the public, especially the petitioners and other people who have petitions in here, the staff members have done a mountain of work on behalf with this petition. There is a process there, as Deputy Buckley said. We are confined to the processes there. It can be slow and cumbersome at times but I can assure this and every other petitioner of the amount of work that the staff do on our behalf. The petitioner is sending in regular updates about the situation but the amount of work that this petition itself has taken up on the lads' part is unbelievable.

I will read out the letter. This is the reason given by the HSE in respect of the attendance of the UHL clinical director from the HSE. It has claimed in this response that there is no requirement for the professor to attend. The letter states:

Based on the advice of relevant National Clinical Programmes there is clinical engagement with the Mid West. The advice from the National Clinical Programmes is reflected in healthcare policy, and the clinical advice given would be against changing this policy for the following reasons:

1. The needs of the patient with an apparent serious emergency condition, the nature of which is as yet unclear ... , who is quite likely to require time critical intervention of a nature that cannot be provided in a Model 2 hospital (e.g. surgical intervention for life-threatening bleeding or other surgical emergency, complex critical care interventions for patient suffering from septic shock). Experience shows this can lead to the loss of several hours in the patient gaining access to definitive care, despite the best efforts of all staff involved, to the detriment of the patient.

2. The relationship between emergency teams providing high volume of service and better outcomes: There is accumulating evidence in relation to better outcomes in time critical conditions where the clinicians delivering that care treat high volumes of such patients ...

3. Minimum required supporting services (e.g. Intensive Care Unit on site, access to emergency surgery and timely access to diagnostic modalities such as point-of-care ultrasound and CT scanning) in a hospital providing a 24-hour Emergency Department service that receives undifferentiated emergencies.

4. Advances in resuscitation at the scene of the emergency. There have been great advances in the chain of emergency care over the last decade, allowing bystanders to begin resuscitation of patients in need of cardiac massage under the expert guidance of the call taker in the National Emergency Operating Centre of the National Ambulance Service, placing of automatic external defibrillators in the community, the dispatch of advanced paramedics on motorbikes, rapid response cars or helicopters, while the situation is analysed and a decision made as to the best destination for the patient depending on the nature of the emergency presentation.

It continues:

5. The hours of opening of Injury Units, (LIUs) reflect the fact that 80% of people registering for care at an ED do so between the hours of 8am and 8pm. More than a decade of experience of Injury Units shows that, in areas where there are Injury Units, the small number of people who suffer injuries other than major trauma during the night opt to await the opening of the Injury Unit a few hours later rather than travelling to an ED.

Injuries suffered during night-time hours are often associated with other factors complicating the assessment and needs of the injured patient e.g. interpersonal violence or intoxication.

HIQA’s Report into the MidWestern Regional Hospital (MWRH) Ennis (2009) highlighted the need for the DoH and HSE to consider any required changes in hospitals with a similar profile to MWRH Ennis. The report remains as valid today when increasing numbers of patients experiencing multiple complex conditions are surviving for longer in the community and the range of emergency treatment options has increased, particularly in the areas of highly specialised minimally invasive therapies resulting in faster recovery times. The report made the following recommendations (quote):

Change for safety must happen. It is unsafe to keep the configuration of services at MWRH Ennis as they are, and these changes must take place safely and effectively.

Acute, complex and specialist services are not sustainable at MWRH Ennis. This is because there are not sufficient numbers of patients presenting with these conditions to enable professional healthcare teams to maintain their clinical skills and expertise. Continuing these acute services, including acute and complex surgery, cancer surgery, level 2/3 critical care and 24-hour emergency department services, in their current structure, exposes patients to potential harm.

MWRH Ennis does not have sufficient volumes of patients attending out of hours to justify an Emergency Department and operating theatre resources being available on a 24-hour basis.

In the course of the investigation, a number of patient safety issues were identified by the Authority. The HSE was notified and interim recommendations were made to address these issues, Appendix 6 ... These recommendations must continue to be implemented as an immediate priority.

The provision of more staff and resources at MWRH Ennis will not address the fundamental issue of professional teams maintaining their clinical skills and expertise in the area of surgery, critical care, emergency care, children’s and maternity services. This is dependent on sufficient numbers of patients attending MWRH Ennis with certain conditions.

The report, Securing the Future of Smaller Hospitals: A Framework for Development (2013), was the [Department of Health's] and [the] HSE’s considered and necessary response to HIQA’s report. The report outlined a Smaller Hospitals Framework, which described the important role of the Model 2 hospitals in the delivery of scheduled and unscheduled care while outlining ways in which to minimise the risk of a patient presenting at the hospital whose time critical needs clearly exceed the capacity of the hospital to meet them.

The establishment of Medical Assessment Units has allowed for many patients with acute medical illness to still be managed in their local Model 2 hospital, once they have been assessed by an appropriate healthcare professional (usually their GP) as having a condition that can be safely treated in a Model 2 hospital.

The establishment of LIUs, with explicit selection criteria, has demonstrated that patients and their carers understand these criteria and receive care for broken bones, dislocated joints and other forms of non-major trauma “as locally as is safely possible”. The numbers of patients attending Injury Units has increased year-on-year and is heading towards 150,000 for 2023.

Notwithstanding these arrangements that allow for significant numbers of people seeking urgent and emergency care in the Mid-West to continue to attend their local hospital within clearly defined guidelines, there are clearly capacity issues in the Mid-West which need to be addressed. This is the subject of ongoing planning while the Hospital Group makes the best use of the beds currently open and continues to develop alternatives in the community, which may reduce the requirement for hospital admissions in certain conditions. The Emergency Medicine Programme (EMP) is clear and consistent in its advice that reopening small Emergency Departments to receive undifferentiated emergency patients with time critical needs is not a solution to these capacity issues.

The Chief Clinical Officer consulted with the Clinical Lead for the EMP and was informed that the ease of transfer of differentiated patients who are clinically stable, with clear care plans in place, from UHL to the JENS hospitals (St John's, Ennis and Nenagh), including direct transfer from the [emergency department], is at least as good as anywhere else in the country, if not better. The Clinical Lead also highlighted the synergy of recommendations from the EMP and other National Clinical Programmes such as Surgery, Critical Care and Trauma [and] Orthopaedics in relation to the Networking of Emergency Care.

In summary, the position from clinical experts and programmes, in line with policy development, is against the reopening 24-hour Emergency Departments in Ennis, Nenagh and Saint John’s hospitals in the Midwest.

That is the letter that was sent on as to why they felt they did not need to appear here today. As stated earlier, we are not happy with them not appearing here. I would like for them to be sitting here and we could question the representatives as we did the action group itself. It is the same with the Minister, Deputy Donnelly. The request will go back that he come at a later date and have him here.

I welcome Deputy McNamara to the committee. Does he wish to speak?

Not other than to agree with the Chair that it is unsatisfactory that the Minister, Deputy Donnelly was not here. I was following the proceedings from my office. I accept that he may not have been available on the date in question but I am sure he will make himself available at some date. I would very much support the Chair’s proposal to resubmit the invitation and maybe offer him a broad variety of dates. I accept that he is busy but he is not that busy.

If the Minister gives us a date we will accommodate him instead of giving him dates.

All he needs to do is give us a date and we will accommodate him.

Moreover, while I appreciate the management of UHL is very busy, and particularly busy today, it is completely unsatisfactory that we have record numbers of overcrowding and people presenting, that it can just write back and say there is no demand for services elsewhere in the mid west other than what is an overcrowded facility that people are afraid to attend. The invitation to the hospital group should also be reiterated.

I acknowledge that at the end of the letter, the HSE reiterates and admits there is a problem there but as I said, I would prefer that it would come in here before us at a committee so we can question it on what its solutions are. Writing a letter telling us that it does not need to appear in front of an Oireachtas committee is not good enough as far as I am concerned. I imagine that applies to all of us here.

I thank the Chair for his commitment to contact the Minister again and trying to get a date that suits him but it is critically important that the Minister comes here because the problem in Limerick is that political decisions have been made to put the resources into the mid-west region when the hospitals are closing the doors and we are dealing with the outcomes of that. A Government plan will only deliver 48 new beds by May 2025, if we are lucky. That means that there is no plan for people here and now. So the Minister does need to come in and explain why it is not a political priority to sort out the hospital in Limerick and the mid-west region.

I propose we send the invitation back out to the Minister and the HSE that those whom we invited to come today would come again to one of our meetings in the near future. There was a list the petitioners gave us that day of about ten or 12. If we fail to get the Minister and so on the next day, we will get in contact with the petitioners and try to arrange that someone else whom they were asking be brought in would be brought in. But we will strive to get the Minister and the HSE to sit in front of us here so that the committee and other Deputies and representatives from that area can come in and quiz them.

The recommendation, then, is that correspondence from the HSE be forwarded to the petitioner for comment within 14 days. Is that agreed? Agreed.

Petition No. P00008/23, to stop legal netting of Atlantic salmon in Castlemaine Harbour, is from Daniel Brosnan. The petitioner advises that the continued legal netting of an endangered species, namely, Atlantic salmon, in the Castlemaine Harbour should be stopped. Castlemaine Harbour is classed as a special area of conservation where salmon are an actual quantifying interest. The petitioner maintains that the number of salmon returning is at an all-time low and adequate data is not provided by the fish counter on the River Maine.

The committee agreed on 30 November 2023 that this petition be referred to the Joint Committee on Environment and Climate Action in accordance with Standing Order 128(2)(b), in respect of actions in relation to petitions, and inform petitioner of the same.

The committee referred this petition to the Joint Committee on Environment and Climate Action as agreed on 30 November 2023.

We received a response on 18 January 2024 advising that the Joint Committee on Environment and Climate Action will consider this issue and the broader issue of fish migration and stacks as part of its work programme discussion. The recommendation is that the petitioner be informed that this petition is now referred to the Joint Committee on Environment and Climate Action and that the petitioner be reminded that correspondence from the Inland Fisheries Division of the Department of the Environment, Climate and Communications, which was forwarded to him for comment within 14 days, is still outstanding. Do members have a view or is that agreed?

The next petition is petition No. P00024 /23 on electric scooter safety standards and Requirements in the name of Alexander-Marckus Edwards. This petition relates to the recent press release that states that PPT's, electric scooters, should conform to a weight limit, including battery, and power limit of 500 W and 25 kg, respectively. The petitioner alleges that these limitations will make electric scooters considerably more dangerous. The lack of weight in the deck paired with a low-power motor would turn the front wheel into a fulcrum which in turn will result in people hitting the roadway face first. Furthermore, the loss of safety features such as lights, suspension and wider tyres will occur to maintain a weight requirement of 25 kg. Technical safety features like ballasting circuits, overcharge protection and tracking technology can make scooters more unsafe. The requirement to maintain 500 W or less will make it nearly impossible to get up a hill. The weight requirement will also cause the likes of Bolt, Uber and Free Now to have to use older scooters, which in turn will increase safety risks. The petitioner believes it is in the Government's best interests to open a public debate and consult people from the e-scooter community as to safety, speed, power and weight requirements for electric scooters and to take recommendations based on experience into consideration.

This petition was considered on 14 December 2023 with the following recommendation: the correspondence from the Department of Transport be forwarded to the petitioner for comment within 14 days; invite the petitioner and the Department of Transport on the same day in the new year for a discussion on the petition.

The secretariat received a response from the petitioner via the committee via JCPP-r-1412-2024. The petitioner expressed apologies for taking so long to get back to us and attached a PDF for the committee, appendix D, in response to the Department of Transport's statements. The recommendation is the correspondence from the petitioner be forwarded to the Department of Transport for comment within 14 days and the committee invite the petitioner and the Department of Transport on the same day for a discussion on this petition. Do members have any views? Is that agreed?

That is agreed.

Petition No. P00006/23, cost of generic pain relief medications, in the name of Ms Charline White. The petition relates to a request to cut and cap the price of generic over-the-counter pain relief medications, such as paracetamol, ibuprofen and aspirin. Sufferers of chronic pain rely on these and it is completely unfair to price them as they are. At a local pharmacy in Wexford town, a 24-pack of 400 mg ibuprofen, unbranded, costs €9.75. Per 400 mg dose, that is a cost of 41 cent. Over the Border, in the UK, non-brand ibuprofen from the supermarket costs 6 cent at current conversion rates per 400 mg dose, with a 200 mg 16-pack costing a total of 40 pence Sterling. Therefore, for the price of one dose in Ireland, you can buy eight doses in the UK. The petitioner asks if that makes sense.

The case manager corresponded with the HSE and the Health Products Regulatory Authority, which advised that this is within the remit of the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission. The secretariat sought the views of the commission and received a response on 24 January 2024. The CCPC summarised its response thus: "In fulfilment of its statutory mandate to promote competition and to promote and protect the interests and welfare of consumers the CCPC will continue to engage as appropriate with the HPRA and other relevant authorities to remove unnecessary barriers to competition, potentially leading to more competitive prices for consumers."

The recommendations are that the correspondence from the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission be forwarded to the petitioner for comment with 14 days, the committee should write to the HPRA to inquire about licensing costs on the various medications, and the petitioner should be informed about the request to the HPRA.

Do members have any views? Is that agreed?

I agree with the recommendations on it. We ourselves know that it is right. Whether you are in England or in Armagh, the price of paracetamol is extremely low compared with anywhere in the Twenty-six Counties. I have also noticed that you cannot buy paracetamol anymore in discount stores such as Dealz. There must be some game being played. I cannot understand why generic medicines are so expensive here. I would be interested in getting a response from the HPRA. I look forward to that response.

I thank Deputy Buckley. That concludes our consideration of public petitions this afternoon. I invite members of the public to submit petitions via our online portal which is available at petitions.oireachtas.ie. A petition may be addressed to the Houses of the Oireachtas on a matter of general public concern or interest or an issue of public policy.

The next item on the agenda is any other business. Is there anybody with any other business? No.

Before we adjourn, I thank Martha and the staff who do a great deal of work on our behalf when we go through the petitions. That makes our lives very easy.

The joint committee adjourned at 2.16 p.m. until 1.30 p.m. on Thursday, 22 February 2024.
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