I propose that the Committee Stage of this Bill be deferred until the autumn session. The Minister has already said that this is one of the most difficult pieces of legislation that could be introduced. It has an important bearing upon the economic situation in this country. I do not think that the attitude of people's minds, in respect to economic matters, is quite normal at present. It appears to me that we are approaching this question in a very abnormal state of mind. There was every indication given to the House that a considerable number of amendments, some of them of a very drastic nature, were likely to be introduced. I think that the last few days of the session is not the time when a Bill of this nature, which should get the fullest consideration, should come before us and, accordingly, I propose that the Committee Stage be deferred until the autumn session. The Minister did not introduce this legislation as any part of the projected emergency legislation of the Government. I hope he will find it reasonable to accede to my suggestion.
Date of Committee Stage.
I second the motion. I do not want to take this opportunity of making a further speech. I do say that this Bill, if it is to be, at all, of any good, would have to be amended out of all recognition and that should be done deliberately.
I regret very much it would be quite impossible for me to accept this motion. Of course, if the House decides against me I am powerless in the matter. Senator O'Hanlon suggested that this Bill should be considered in Committee when economic conditions would be normal. But it has to be remembered that this Bill was drafted and laid before the Dáil before anything of an abnormal nature took place. I presume he is suggesting that the abnormality of the circumstances of the last two or three weeks affected the Bill. Such conditions did not apply at all when this Bill was drafted.
Perhaps the abnormality of certain amendments that we might suggest would require consideration.
As regards that, the Government has to consider that quite a lot of activities are being held up pending a decision upon this Bill. Enterprises are waiting and it would be very desirable not to have them delayed. A considerable number of firms want to see where they stand under this Bill, and they are anxious to get under way at once. By holding it up it would mean the holding up of a great deal of development that could be put into immediate operation if the Bill were passed. For that reason I would like the House to consider the possibility of getting this Bill through next week, They have every opportunity of amending it and, if they like, they can consider it for two or three weeks. I ask the House not to leave the Bill held up for over three months, as it would not be fair to industrialists who are waiting to see what decision will be taken. To hold up the Bill would simply mean suspending operations if the Bill is to be amended. The normal course would be to amend it and to take two or three weeks extra to deal with it.
I suggest to Senator O'Hanlon that he should not press the amendment. Whatever the Seanad has done in the course of the past month or two, I believe the public are of opinion that the Seanad acted in good faith. If a motion like this is persisted in, even with the most honest motive on the part of the Senators who moved and seconded it, I think the impression left on the country will be that it would undoubtedly prevent the revival or the development of industry, and cause ill-feeling. I ask Senator O'Hanlon to consider that. I do not for a moment suggest that that is his motive, but I say that that is the conclusion that will be drawn by the public. It has been said that we are not in a position to discuss a matter of this kind, that we are excited, that our judgment is likely to be warped by events that have happened within the past week. My answer to that is that any person who has listened to the debate on this measure is bound to come to the conclusion that, on all sides, it has been discussed with the one object in view, namely the benefit of the country. It has been discussed calmly, and everybody who has spoken on it, on all sides, has left the impression that the one object was to serve the country. Therefore, I say that the Senand is quite competent to discuss this Bill and that it is very desirable that it should do so.
The Minister has stated that any amendments which are brought forward, and which are likely to improve the Bill, will be not merely fully considered but welcomed. I say that the time is now ripe for this measure, that the Seanad is in a position to consider it calmly and wisely, and that any postponement until the Autumn session will be looked upon as an attempt to thwart the wishes of the people, and as an attempt to prevent the revival of industry, and that it will cause great ill-feeling, infinitely more ill-feeling than anything done by the Seanad since it was first established. I ask my friend Senator O'Hanlon to withdraw the motion.
I have no intention of withdrawing the motion. The last Senator stated that if I persisted, and if it happened that the Committee Stage of the Bill were delayed, following the remark made by the Minister, the possible development of industry would be held up. I wonder how a postponement of the Committee Stage of this Bill would hold up the development of industry? What is this Bill? This Bill is more or less restrictive legislation, the introduction of control by restrictive legislation. How will the postponement of a Bill of a controlling and restrictive character serve in any way to hold up the development of industry? I fail to follow that. It is conceded that this is a most difficult Bill to understand. Everybody who spoke said that it would be a most difficult Bill to amend. The Minister paid a great tribute to those who had the difficulty of drafting the Bill. If there was difficulty in the drafting of the Bill, having regard to all the motions and measures that were before this House for the last few weeks, I think it is only perfectly fair and proper that the Bill should get full and proper consideration and that the Committee Stage should be delayed until the Autumn. I have to get it explained to me how a postponement of the Committee Stage would hold up any projected industrial development, because the Bill in itself is a controlling and a restricting measure.
I would like to explain——
Cathaoirleach
I cannot allow any further discussion.
But a point has been raised by the Senator as to the possibility of the Bill, if delayed, holding up possible development. In spite of the fact that the Bill is a controlling Bill, certain negotiations have been under way for some time as regards the formation of companies complying with this Bill whereby 51 per cent. of the capital will be under Irish control. Nevertheless, quite large scale enterprises are being considered on that basis, and I have before me at present at least three or four on a reasonably big scale, where the promoters will not act until they know where they stand under this Bill. I think that is perfectly reasonable.
Mr. Jameson rose.
Cathaoirleach
I am afraid I cannot allow any further speeches as the debate has been closed. However, I am sure the House will give Senator Jameson permission to speak.
Agreed.
We are in a very difficult position in regard to this Bill. I believe that there were not enough Senators present to discuss the matter and to vote on it. I still hold that view. The question as to whether we should postpone this Bill until the Autumn is a very important one and should be fully considered. I ask Senator O'Hanlon to consider whether it is wise, having regard to the small attendance, for the House to pledge itself on an important matter like this. If we let it go to the Committee Stage on Wednesday we would have a fairly good House then. It is a very doubtful and a very difficult thing to give an opinion in a hurry but the Seanad should consider what is the wise thing to do. I would not like to vote at present seeing that we can do as we wish on Wednesday. I am inclined to believe that what the House ought to do is to let a discussion take place on Wednesday next.
Cathaoirleach
Does the House agree to that suggestion? The motion seems a drastic one in view of the small House.
I think everyone in the House would agree to go on now.
I would not agree to anything except that the business should go on now. I may point out that on Wednesday I waited in the House for four or five hours expecting that the Bill would be brought forward. I was quite willing to come back after the adjournment to have the Second Reading discussed. Everyone knew that the Bill would be on to-day.
Tá.
- Bigger, Sir Edward Coey.
- Browne, Miss Kathleen.
- Costello, Mrs.
- Counihan, John C.
- Gogarty, Dr. O. St. J.
- Keane, Sir John.
- O'Hanlon, M. F.
- Staines, Michael.
Níl.
- Chléirigh, Caitlín Bean Uí.
- Comyn, K.C., Michael.
- Connolly, Joseph.
- Cummins, William.
- Dowdall, J. C.
- Duffy, Michael.
- Farren, Thomas.
- Foran, Thomas.
- Guinness, Henry S.
- Hickie, Major-General Sir William.
- MacEllin, Seán E.
- McGillycuddy of the Reeks, The.
- MacKean, James.
- Moran, James.
- O'Connor, Joseph.
- O'Neill, L.
- Phaoraigh, Siobhán Bean an.
- Robinson, Séumas.
- Ryan, Séumas.