Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 14 May 1980

Vol. 94 No. 3

Joint Committee on State-Sponsored Bodies: Motion.

Mr. E. Ryan

I move:

That, in the period ending 31st December 1980, notwithstanding anything contained in Standing Orders and unless the Seanad shall otherwise order, if the Joint Committee on State-Sponsored Bodies lays before the Seanad a report containing a request for a debate thereon in the Seanad, one hour-and-a-half shall be set aside for debate on a motion, That the Seanad take note of such report, on the first day on which the Seanad shall sit after

(a) six clear days have elapsed since the report was laid before the Seanad, and

(b) due notice of the motion has been received by the Clerk from a Member nominated by the Joint committee.

The purpose of this motion is to provide the same facility for discussing reports of the Joint Committee on State-Sponsored Bodies as already exists for the Joint Committee on the Secondary Legislation of the European Communities. The terms are exactly the same. The facility asked from the House is exactly the same.

Mr. Cooney

I welcome this motion. The debates that have taken place on the reports of the Joint Committee on the Secondary Legislation of the European Communities have been most helpful and informative and I look forward to similar debates on the reports of this Joint Committee. Members will recall that for many years it was agreed both here and in the other House that the activities of semi-State bodies were not subject to parliamentary review, not even subject to questioning in the other House. The Joint Committee were set up to remedy that grievance. It is only logical that the reports would come before this House and I would urge Members, in view of the fact that this is something that was sought for many years by Members of the Oireachtas, that when the reports come for debate an appropriate level of interest will be taken in them.

Professor Keating

I would like to add a voice of support to this motion for the reasons that Senator Cooney has expressed and also for the reason that, as a member of this committee—I am not referring to my own contribution—I offer the thought that this committee under vigorous leadership from the Leader of the Seanad, Senator Eoin Ryan, have been working hard and well and real use will best be brought out, not simply by the making of their reports available but by the discussion of them on the floor of this House as well as in the other House. This is a good idea and deserves our support.

Mrs. Hussey

I want to support this motion, particularly because the Joint Committee have no Independent representative and there is therefore quite a sizeable group of people in this House who are unable to contribute to the workings of that committee. Nevertheless, this does not stop us from admiring the work that they are doing. I would like to say that I hope there will be frequent debates in this House on their reports and these will give Independent Members an opportunity to have their say on those reports.

Mrs. Robinson

I, too, would like to welcome this motion, in particular because the initiative to change Standing Orders in relation to the reports of the Joint Committee on Secondary Legislation of the European Communities was taken by the Seanad in May 1978 and that has been renewed regularly since. It is fair to say that it has been a considerable extension of the role of the Seanad and has provided the possibility of a constructive contribution on the part of the Seanad in considering reports of that Joint Committee. We have debated reports on youth unemployment, on the financing of the budget of the Communities, on the teaching of languages in our schools. Presumably we will debate other future reports of that committee.

Like the other Senators who have spoken on this, I think the Joint Committee on State-Sponsored Bodies are a committee with responsibility in an extremely important area of our economic and social life. This is an area in which there has been far too little accountability in the past. The first step was to set up a Joint Committee which would enable the members of that committee to develop a certain specialisation, which had the powers to examine and to investigate and to invite both written and oral submissions to be made to that committee. There must be the follow-through of having regular opportunities in both Houses of considering and debating the reports of the Joint Committee on State-Sponsored Bodies.

I have been impressed by the recommendations in some of those reports and by the thoroughness of the investigation carried out by members of that committee. I would very much welcome regular opportunities to debate those reports on the floor of the House. This enables the Seanad, perhaps for the first time, to assume a realistic responsibility in relation to the role of State-sponsored bodies. In the past the only opportunity we have really been afforded for a debate in this House on one of the State-sponsored bodies has been when there has been a measure looking for an increase in the grant, or an increase in the borrowing facility to be afforded to that State-sponsored body. That is not an appropriate way to generate a good, informed and thorough debate. The difference will be that when we get reports from the Joint Committee on State-Sponsored Bodies on a particular company it will provide the basis for consideration in this House. I hope that when the time comes that Ministers will be prepared to be present in this House during the debates.

So far Ministers have been present during debates on reports of the Committee on EEC legislation. I think the same procedure should prevail so that there can be some indication of Government thinking, as well as a response by this House to the reports.

I welcome this important development in the Standing Orders of the Seanad, an important new opportunity for the Seanad to play a more significant part in examining this very important sector of our public life. I hope that the facility will be availed of at a very early opportunity. I feel this is quite likely since the Leader of the House will have a fairly determining role in the matter and can table the motion for debate.

Dr. Martin

I would like to support this motion in the terms that have been suggested by previous speakers but particularly adding one point to it. Many of us in the Seanad have taken great comfort from the fact that a committee system is beginning to get under way in our time. One of the traditional criticisms of this House is that really all we do is patiently listen and more or less "crank" into legislation every Bill that comes up to us from the Lower House. It is an elegant enough process when it is done well but, by and large, we get the impression that we are repeating what has happened in the other House at times and that the little touches of innovation we would like to add to legislation handed to us do not always come into being. One thing that has encouraged us is the fact that we have these Committees which are becoming more and more impressive in their performance. It is certainly a very gratifying and useful exercise to have the reports of these Committees placed before us and debated here. I join with Senator Hussey in deploring the fact that Independent Members are not eligible for membership of all these Committees. As far as we can bring what we are pleased to call our intelligence to bear on these measures, we welcome the suggestion that they be laid before us in this way and be given a chance to be debated here.

Question put and agreed to.