It is intended to take Items Nos. 1, 2, 3 and 4 today. It is intended to take the Second Stage of Agriculture (An Chomhairle Oiliúna Talmhaíochta) Bill, 1986. If it is not finished by 5.30 p.m. we will take Item No. 4. If Item No. 1 is finished before 5.30 p.m. we will deal with Items Nos. 2 and 3.
Order of Business.
I should like to raise a matter on the Order of Business. As I am a new Senator I am not fully accustomed to the procedure here and I should like to ask the Leader of the House when Item No. 22 on the Order Paper will be taken. This is the Fourth Report of the Joint Committee on Women's Rights — Sexual Violence. I ask this in the context of the need to examine very closely this whole question. That report dealt with the treatment of complaints in rape cases. We have an obligation in this House to look into these events given the case in the Circuit Criminal Court last week to examine this matter seriously. I propose that this item be brought forward for discussion.
I should like to raise two points on the Order of Business. The first is Item No. 4 which deals with a subject on which very many Members of the House would like the opportunity to contribute especially in view of some of the extraordinary, unfair and unsubstantiated things which have been said by some Members of the House in public over the past few days. It is a subject upon which many Members have some very positive ideas. I should like to ask the Leader of the House if extra time could be made available for this motion; if, perhaps, some time could be made available tomorrow or extra time next week.
Secondly, on the Order of Business, I raised two weeks ago what the Leader of the House described as a rumour, that is, the establishment of parliamentary committees which is of concern to all Members of this House. Since then the Chief Whip in the Dáil has confirmed that it is the intention of the Government to curtail seriously the number of committees to be established. In all parts of this House that would be regarded as a retrograde step. I would like the view of all parties in this House to go from the Leader of the House to the Government that we should regard the committee system as it finished up in the last Oireachtas as our starting point and that we want to see a vigorous committee system established quickly. We do not want the summer recess to come upon us and the committees not even established. This is a matter of great urgency which I should like the Leader of the House to convey to the Government.
In support of Senator Manning with regard to item No. 4, I expressed some concern the first day we met about the attacks on this House and I was amazed to learn of the cannibalism that is now taking place — we are starting to attack ourselves. To see this item on the Order Paper in the names of two Members is reasonably fair, but to hear a public attack by one of those Members this morning is totally unfair. I support the call for extra time in this House to discuss the matter fully because the advantage that has been given in placing one side's view on the record is grossly unfair to the Members who believe in this House.
Will the Senator hold his speech for tonight.
I wish to raise two points on the Order of Business. For the record, could the Cathaoirleach give some information to Members of the House on the matter raised last week about finding a new Chamber for this House as an interim measure. I understand many people feel they are being misled by what they read in the press and there are public rumours going around.
The second item I wish to raise is of no less importance to some of us, but probably is of lesser importance to most people. I raised it before. It is the question of accommodation for Independent Senators. The Cathaoirleach gave an indication to me a fortnight ago, as did the Leader of the House, of full support in getting proper accommodation. This was much appreciated by the Independent Senators. However, we have now run into a difficulty as the rooms which we were hoping to use as offices cannot be made available to us without the consent of the Dáil or the Ceann Comhairle. This accommodation was previously used as offices for Senators and was taken from Senators to be used by a joint committee without any consultation whatsoever with either the Whips, the Leader of this House or the Cathaoirleach. I believe we are getting a very poor response on this issue.
The Senator is making a speech. I take the two points he has made for the third week. With regard to the first one: when I know where the next Chamber of this distinguished House is to be I will come in here and make a statement without the advice of any Senator. I do not know at present. With regard to publicity, after 35 years in public life I do not always believe what I read in the papers. When the next move is to be made I will announce it to my colleagues, who should be the first to be told anyway.
With regard to accommodation for Senator Joe O'Toole and other Senators, that is not my responsibility as Cathaoirleach. I understand the Whips are doing their best to accommodate every Member of the House. Before I call on the Leader of the House, I appeal, as somebody who has served this House for 11 years, for support from inside this House for the Seanad. If we do not support the House to which we have been democratically elected, I do not know where we are going.
I am taking my cue from what the Cathaoirleach said, I hope the media have had sufficient notice of this motion which is generating great interest. It is important that Senators should maintain respect for the House. We may continue to discuss the issues that affect this House until kingdom come unless the media are prepared to disseminate that information to the general public. Without in any way implying criticism of the media I hope having had notice of this motion, that the media, in relation to the debate which is about to take place on this motion, which is so important to the future of the House and to the conduct of and respect for the House, will be conscious of their onerous responsibility to ensure that the people are made fully aware of the debate as it continues.
I hope I did not misunderstand the Cathaoirleach's statement that when another premises becomes available to this House she will make a statement to the House. I hope when that happens Senators will have an opportunity to decide whether that accommodation is suitable.
I meant that it is normally done through the Committee on Procedure and Privileges. I do not decide on matters in the House or outside it without discussing them with my friends. I consider everybody in this Chamber my friends. I will try to do everything right as Cathaoirleach. With regard to where the next Chamber will be, we seem to be in a whirlpool at the moment and I do not know whether eventually they will get us out the gate for good. I did not mean that I would come in and pontificate and say: "This is where you are going now, Senator Doyle". I am sorry if I gave that impression.
I thank the Cathaoirleach for her concern.
Senator Fennell mentioned Item No. 22. That is one of a long list of reports which are down in my name, some of which are now out of date and no longer relevant. In the next week or two we should eliminate the ones that are irrelevant. We can put together others so that we can have a reasonable debate on what is relevant. As far as Item No. 22 is concerned, there is much public concern about it and we should debate this matter at the earliest possible moment. I will get in touch with the Minister for Justice about this matter and I can guarantee that we will make progress as soon as possible.
On Item No. 4 there is no doubt that quite a degree of public concern has been expressed about the operation of this House. Indeed, some of the concerns that have been expressed are ones that all of us who have the interests of the House at heart would wish to discuss. However, as has been said, quite an amount of rhetoric has been used by various people who do not have the interests of this House at heart. Whether on radio or in the press, there is no doubt that there has been quite an amount of ill-informed comment about the powers, functions of the House and debates on various items.
I want to make certain that nobody will feel he or she is not getting an opportunity to discuss the matter which is embodied in this motion. The normal length of time for a debate of this nature is three hours. We will extend the time available. We will take an hour and a half this evening and we can allow time tomorrow. We can discuss in the morning the amount of time we will take up with this matter tomorrow and we can take it again next Wednesday. I do not think we should extend the amount of time each contributor is allowed but we should allow any Senators who want to contribute to get in on the debate.
I take the points raised by Senator Mooney and Senator Loughrey. Senator Kennedy in association with Senator Loughrey was going to make the point that some of the elements in the media have been very critical of this House. I hope they will take cognisance of the debate when it takes place here. Could I appeal to one of the organs of the media I have been critical of in the past. The Irish Press group, who commented on quite a number of occasions on the activities in the Seanad but do not see fit to send representatives to the Seanad, that if they want to comment on the activities of the Seanad they should send somebody to the Chamber to listen at least to the debate and, having listened to the debate, if they want to comment nobody will have anything but good reactions to that.
I appreciate the remarks of Senator Joe O'Toole concerning the Chamber and equally the remarks of the Cathaoirleach. The Committee on Procedure and Privileges will be meeting again today. We will be discussing the questions raised about accommodation for the House and Independent Senators. Senators are still coming up against problems particularly in terms of accommodation and telephones. We will deal with those as soon as we can.
What about the committees?
On the question of committees, all I have to go on is what I read in the newspapers but I can assure the Senator that the Whip and I will approach the Government Whip in the Dáil to find exactly what is going on and we will report back here as soon as possible.
Order of Business agreed to.