It is proposed to take Items Nos. 1, 2 and 3. We will take all stages of Item No. 1 and the Worker Participation (State Enterprises) Bill will follow. If that Bill is concluded before 6.30 p.m. the House will break for tea. In any event we will take the Labour Party motion at 6.30 p.m. I propose that, notwithstanding the Order of the House of 4 November 1987, the speech of the proposer of Item No. 3 shall not exceed 15 minutes and the speech of any other Senator shall not exceed ten minutes.
Order of Business.
On the Order of Business, I would like to refer the Deputy Leader of the House to Item No. 15 on the Order Paper, the amendment to the 1987 Extradition Act. I would like to propose that it should be taken today as the first Item of business and to remind him and the House that I got a clear undertaking from the Leader of the House, Senator Lanigan, last October that this matter would be addressed and would be taken on Second Stage at a later time. First, we have seen enough over the last period of time to indicate the urgency of this matter and to indicate that, as a House of the Oireachtas with a clear commitment and responsibility and duty to our citizens, we have a clear duty to see to it that our citizens have a fair trial. Secondly I ask for some amount of discretion on this matter. It has been a major discussion point for the past month. I ask my colleagues on the other side of the House to support this particular issue. We have kept our heads in the sand on an issue which is of absolute relevance to the time.
You cannot make a speech.
You will understand, I am sure as well as anybody else, how important it is that this issue should be addressed. I ask the Deputy Leader of the House why this issue will not be discussed. It has been discussed in every house and in every place outside of here.
You can hear the answer, but you cannot make a speech. We are all aware of what you are saying.
I await the Deputy Leader's answer on the point.
I would like to raise the matter of the Adoption (No. 2) Bill and to ask the Deputy Leader of the House to give us an indication of when we will have it for discussion again. It will not change things radically. It is quite a small Bill with minimal consequences, but I would like to see it coming back into the House.
On the Order of Business, I would like to raise the very short notice which Members on this side of the House were given of the Labour Party motion on the Order Paper today. Apparently, this motion was not handed in until Monday. We have heard the points made from the other side of the House on many occasions. It is helpful for Senators to have as much advance notice as possible of items which will be coming up. If groups and Members wish to be helpful to Senators, when motions are submitted Senators should have advance notice of them.
Through the Chair may I advise Senator Mullooly that the Whip of the Government party was notified at the end of last week that the education motion would be discussed. It is our prerogative to have an allocation of time to decide on the actual wording of the relevant motion. That was cleared and lodged at the appropriate time, in time in fact, for the Senator to have amended it, so I do not see anything wrong with the timing. It was done in precise timing and in consultation with the Leader of the House. Could I ask the Deputy Leader of the House, who has now signified a change in the agreed procedures for taking Private Members time, why we were not advised until now that our time was changed? I accept that there is a reason for it, but I was not told. We had agreed on a procedure to be followed, and just now I have been told there is a change. If we were to make changes, I would like to have known last week because people have prepared speeches.
I share Senator Fennell's concern about the Adoption (No. 2) Bill. Certainly last week Senator Lanigan seemed to appreciate the concern of Senators. He indicated that he would press the Government very strongly to have it brought before the Seanad speedily, so I hope the Deputy Leader of the House can give us some assurances on that point.
When is it anticipated that we will take Item No. 24: That Seanad Éireann takes note of the Fourth Report of the Joint Committee on Women's Rights — Sexual Violence. I ask this in the knowledge that legislation, and the preparation of such legislation, is getting under way. The Law Reform Commission brought forth an important report dealing with this area. There is a certain debate taking place in the wider public forum. I feel it would be very useful if we in this House debated that report as a way of signalling some input into the preparation of the legislation. It is a matter of concern because there is a rising incidence of this kind of crime, which is to be deplored.
I would like to add my voice as strongly as possible to that of my colleague, Senator O'Toole, in seeking some real indication of when Item No. 15 will be taken. The reason I do this is that this matter has been brought up repeatedly and we have been fobbed off with specific undertakings which were not lived up to. As representatives we come continually under pressure from constituents who want to know why this matter is not being debated in this House.
You are supporting Senator O'Toole, but do not copy him.
He is inimitable. May I raise one technical point? It is a technical point about the Business of the House. I have noticed for some time that the monitor is quite indistinguishable. We cannot read what is on it. I wonder if this is the same kind of reception that is being received around the House.
There is a breakdown at the moment. When everything that is relevant comes on, you will see the names.
I hope the Cathaoirleach is not suggesting that my voice is irrelevant.
May I add my voice to that of other Senators? The Leader of the House was very angry last week, and quite rightly so, about what he felt was being fobbed off by Government Ministers and about delays in proceeding with Government legislation. Added to that list of items being fobbed off are the Companies (No. 2) Bill and the Video Recordings Bill. I do not want to get up here every week and repeat what happened on the Committee Stage of the Video Recordings Bill, but we were forced by the Minister to rush that Bill through at the time which was inconvenient to some of us who had a lot of amendments down, because we were told that the matter was urgent, and we accepted that the matter was urgent. I accepted without doubt the information supplied to me by the Government side. It is a fact that that Bill was rushed through because we were told, quite understandably, that it was urgent. It is still urgent and nothing is being done about it. I would like to know what is happening. I will not ask you to protect me from Senator Cassidy——
Senator O'Toole protected you——
Is it in order for Senator Cassidy to refer to my absence from the House?
I do not think so.
On a point of order, when an inaccuracy is being stated I think it is only fitting that I should point out that it should be corrected.
That is not a point of order.
I am speaking on the Order of Business, and was speaking consistently on the Order of Business. It was the interruptions which distracted me. On Item No. 15 — and I will be very brief — there is at this stage a very deep feeling in this country of concern about the nature of justice in the jurisdiction nearest to us which, as far as Irish people are concerned, can no longer be regarded as a parliamentary democracy in terms of the rights of the citizen. It is extremely important, therefore, that Senator O'Toole's and Senator Norris' Bill should be discussed particularly in order to allow the Members on the other side who have such deep views on this matter to express themselves.
A Chathaoirligh, I would like to bring to your attention the fact that the clock has stopped. On the Order of Business I would like to make it clear that, from my point of view, with regard to Item No. 15 I think the House, and some of the House certainly, would agree with me when I say that there are already quite adequate extradition arrangements provided for in law in this country. Therefore, I want to state very clearly that I see no reason to regard Item No. 15 as a matter of urgency.
May I add a few words to what Senator Murphy said? I think there is a slight danger at the moment that not only will Britain put the clock back but that Ireland might put the clock back too. I can see no reason at the present to debate Item No. 15. There are many things that have to be clarified in the next few weeks without adding fuel to the fire.
Senators
Hear, hear.
Senator W. Ryan to reply and conclude on the Order of Business.
With regard to the Labour Party motion the time was short. It has been the practice that we get motions on a Friday. I pointed out to Senator Ferris last Friday that his motion had not been received. He said it was probably the motion on education. I understood it was the education motion that was on the Order Paper. The motion we received is quite different and is much longer. In fairness to Members of this House, motions should be in the hands of the Clerk by the previous Friday in order to give people an opportunity to prepare something on the item. Senator Ferris also mentioned that he was not involved in regard to the change of time. I decided to do this because this motion lasts for one and a half hours only whereas other motions last for three hours. If Senator Ferris insists on getting 20 minutes, I am agreeable to that. That is why I decided here today——
I only asked why it was changed. You did not inform me that you had decided on anything.
I decided early today and I did not tell anyone.
My number is 558.
I do not see what difference it would make. That is what I have to say on this motion or any other motion in the future from any Party. The motion should be received on the Friday before the date in question or, if at all possible, on the Thursday before that date.
With regard to the Adoption (No. 2) Bill, I hope to have it for the House on this day fortnight. I am insisting on that. I have asked the Minister to have the Committee Stage ready on that day.
The Companies (No. 2) Bill was mentioned by Senator Ryan. I expect to have that next week.
With regard to Item No. 24 which Senator Bulbulia raised, it is our intention from now on if at all possible to have Government business only on Wednesdays and motions on Thursdays. When we have that sorted out in the course of a few weeks I expect we will then take Item No. 24 on today's Order Paper.
In regard to Item No. 15 I am in complete agreement with what Senator Murphy and Senator Robb said about this Bill. This week, of all weeks, is not the week to raise that matter in this House. I am not sorry really, but we are not taking Item No. 15 today.
I would like to propose an amendment to the Order of Business. It is precisely this kind of panic politics of reacting to the times and saying when justice is——
Senator O'Toole, you have spoken. Please move your amendment.
I am proposing an amendment to the Order of Business and I am asking that the Senators on the Government side of the House be given a free vote on this issue. I know that many of them feel——
Senator O'Toole, we have to hear your amendment first.
I am proposing as an amendment to the Order of Business that Item No. 15 be taken first on the Order of Business today. I am making the case that we have heard enough and know enough about——
Sit down, Senator O'Toole.
If I sit down my motion will be misunderstood. I sit down reluctantly.
Is it seconded?
Yes.
Question put: "That Item No. 15 be taken before Item No. 1."
Votáil.
The question is: "That Item No. 15 be taken before Item No. 1." On that question a division has been challenged. Will those Senators calling for a division please rise in their places?
Senators Ferris, Harte, Norris, O'Shea, J. O'Toole and B. Ryan stood.
The division will now proceed.
The Seanad divided: Tá, 4; Níl, 40.
Tá
- Eogan, George.
- Norris, David.
- O'Toole, Joe.
- Ryan, Brendan.
Níl
- Bohan, Edward Joseph.
- Bradford, Paul.
- Bulbulia, Katharine.
- Byrne, Seán.
- Cassidy, Donie.
- Connor, John.
- Cregan, Denis.
- Cullimore, Seamus.
- Daly, Jack.
- Doherty, Michael.
- Doyle, Joe.
- Fallon, Seán.
- Farrell, Willie.
- Fennell, Nuala.
- Fitzgerald, Tom.
- Hanafin, Des.
- Haughey, Seán F.
- Hillery, Brian.
- Hogan, Philip.
- Kelleher, Peter.
- Kennedy, Patrick.
- Kiely, Rory.
- Lydon, Donal.
- McCormack, Padraic.
- McEllistrim, Tom.
- McGowan, Patrick.
- McKenna, Tony.
- McMahon, Larry.
- Mooney, Paschal.
- Mullooly, Brian.
- Mulroy, Jimmy.
- Murphy, John A.
- O'Callaghan, Vivian.
- O'Connell, John.
- Nicolás Ó Conchubhair.
- O'Toole, Martin J.
- Reynolds, Gerry.
- Robb, John D. A.
- Ryan, William.
- Wallace, Mary.
Tellers: Tá, Senators J. O'Toole and Norris; Níl, Senators S. Haughey and Fallon.
Question declared lost.
Order of Business agreed to.