The Order of Business is No. 1, a motion concerning the risk equalisation scheme which was referred to the Joint Committee on Health and Children which has completed its discussions, to be taken without debate; No. 2, European Convention on Human Rights Bill 2001 – Second Stage, to be taken at the conclusion of the Order of Business and conclude not later than 2 p.m., with the contributions of spokespersons not to exceed 15 minutes and those of all other Senators not to exceed ten minutes, and on which Members may share time, the Minister to be called on to reply not later than ten minutes before the conclusion of Second Stage at approximately 1.50 p.m.; No. 3, Intoxicating Liquor Bill 2003 – Order for Second Stage and Second Stage, to be taken at 3 p.m. and conclude not later than 6 p.m., with the contributions of spokespersons not to exceed 15 minutes and those of all other Senators not to exceed ten minutes, and on which Members may share time, the Minister to be called on reply not later than ten minutes before the conclusion of Second Stage at approximately 5.50 p.m.; and No. 15, motion No. 33, a Labour Party motion on funding for elections, to be taken from 6 p.m. to 8 p.m. There will be a sos between 2 p.m. and 3 p.m.
Order of Business.
The Leader is proposing that the House deal with No. 3, the Intoxicating Liquor Bill 2003 which was published and circulated to colleagues in the House this morning. The Government is attempting to ram it through the House today and tomorrow. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform has had 12 months to get his act together on this issue and now in the late stages of this parliamentary session he and his Government colleagues are attempting to bring the Bill before this and the other House within a matter of two weeks. This is unacceptable. The Minister has used the argument that this is a complicated matter which needs to be thought out and considered, yet the Leader is proposing that the House deal with Committee and Report Stages in a period of three hours, even though the Bill contains a significant number of sections. This is a radical departure from existing practice. We need more time to debate the Bill, which should not be dealt with in this manner this week. I have no difficulty dealing with Second Stage today but tomorrow's Committee Stage debate should continue next week.
Justice spokespersons on this side of the House will be in the House from 11 a.m. to 6 p.m. They will deal with the European Convention on Human Rights Bill 2001 and the Intoxicating Liquor Bill. It is not fair that they should be in the House for that length of time and not get the chance to consider their amendments to the Bill published this morning. The Leader is, presumably, under pressure from the Government to get this Bill through the House. However, this is not the way to do business. We do not normally have Committee and Report Stages together. I ask her to seriously reconsider this in advance of tomorrow's sitting.
When is it proposed to have full statements on the health strategy, now nothing more than an election strategy and proven as such? When will the Minister for Health and Children inform the House of the allegedly fundamental changes he will make to the health service? The key issues concern improving the service for our people, delivering on the Government's commitments for an additional 3,000 beds, 200,000 extra medical cards and the elimination of waiting lists within two years. These are all pipe dreams. We want to debate the real health strategy issues, not some cosmetic changes which will not make a difference to people's health. I ask for a debate on this issue.
The enthusiasm, goodwill and generosity of the people have been shown once again in their response to the wonderful athletes coming from all over the world to celebrate and be part of the Special Olympics. I hope I speak for all colleagues on this issue. I have been struck by the marvellous enthusiasm of people who have opened their homes, hearts and wallets in order that we may host these games. This is a great example of the good-natured spirit of our people and should be celebrated. The country should take pride in their generosity over the last week in particular. We have seen many people come for this great occasion which we should all celebrate.
I support Senator Brian Hayes in his comments on the Intoxicating Liquor Bill. The Leader must agree that it is not the most helpful way to proceed, and it does not assist the efficiency of the House if we get a Bill in the morning and have to debate it in the afternoon. The timescale is unrealistically short.
We have debated the level of crime in the capital city but we need a focused debate on gangland warfare in the city. The situation is getting completely out of hand and many people would like to see clear, specific, targeted action against the operation of gangs. In the last couple of days we had another assassination – the drive-by shooting of a man in Eden Quay. That is the tenth gangland murder so far this year. When will we have a concerted effort to stop the warfare? The apparent growth in the level of violence in the State is regrettable.
I initiated the process of putting down amendments which would protect the gay community and Travellers against discrimination. As somebody with that track record I say that it is time the decent people within the Traveller community spoke to and dealt with some of the worst elements in that community. It is intolerable that the day before yesterday a pub in Mayo, the proprietors of which are an elderly couple, was ransacked because a group of Travellers was refused drink after hours. The landlord and his wife complied with the law and the group trashed the pub. The guards said the situation was horrible because of the large number of people involved. That is not acceptable. The message should go out from those who have traditionally supported Travellers that this kind of behaviour is unacceptable.
In the light of what Senator Brian Hayes said about the generally marvellous feeling there is towards the athletes in the Special Olympics, it is also unacceptable that a group of Travellers in Ennis should occupy land which was to be used as a welcome site for people participating in the Special Olympics. It was one of the meanest things I had seen in a long time because the people of Ennis had gone to a great deal of trouble preparing a celebration. They had planned a brass band and all kinds of things which the participants would have loved. However, the people concerned, in a mean spirit, moved in and spoiled years of preparation.
I say this sadly as one who has consistently supported Travellers' rights. However, they need to talk to rogue elements within their community and tell them they are giving all Travellers a bad name and to stop such behaviour. They should also tell them that they will support the Garda from within the community against this behaviour, which is intolerable to any citizen, whether he or she is a member of the settled or Traveller communities. We are not prepared to put up with such behaviour.
I support my colleagues in their measured objections to the principle of a Bill being published between 9 a.m and 9.30 a.m. this morning when it appeared in our post. It is stated on page 3 that the Bill contains references to around 14 other pieces of legislation. No amount of preliminary leaks, warnings or drafts could prepare an Opposition spokesperson without the availability of a Bill. It is profoundly wrong. I recall the last time the Leader was under pressure from the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to have the Immigration Bill through this House in a hurry. It is funny because that Bill is still on the Dáil Order Paper, despite our having been told at one stage that it was so urgent it had to pass through both Houses in a week. The truth is that there would be no rush about this Bill if the Houses were not adjourning so early. Presumably, this is because the Taoiseach is fed up of losing the debate to the Leaders of the Opposition two mornings a week and wants to hide from his responsibilities.
That is not relevant to this House.
I am finished on that topic but wish to record my view that it is entirely unacceptable.
Does the Leader have any plans for us to debate the Government's restructuring of the health service, which the newspapers are calling "reform"? There used to be a phrase – democratic centralism – used by people with whom I would be more acquainted than others. It is now part of history but we have a notion of bureaucratic centralism masquerading as increased efficiency. There is a need for a serious debate on these proposals. I am not a believer in management speak which seems to suggest less democracy means more efficiency. However, the logic of that argument could land us in dangerous territory. Democracy is the way in which consumers of the health service make their feelings known. That is an issue for the debate. I ask the Leader to consider a serious debate on the health service.
The story from County Mayo has become a convenient way of distorting an issue. I do not care whether someone is a Traveller, it is wrong for any section of the community to break the law. As it happens, the 11 camper vans in question are all British registered and were passing through County Mayo. I do not understand the reason gardaí came, observed the demeanour of the people concerned and then left the scene. Subsequently, the son of the publican involved made three 999 calls without getting an answer. That is a bigger issue than that of the Travellers. Judging by his demeanour on a radio programme, this decent, dignified man effectively felt abandoned by the part of the State which is supposed to protect us in such circumstances.
There was another issue raised last night. Although I do not wish to get involved with the decision of the Director of Public Prosecutions on the little girl in Tallaght, at the tail end of the report, almost as a passing casual remark, it was mentioned that the girl and her family had been intimidated out of the house in which they were living by the family of the person now not being charged with any offence. Does the State offer protection to its citizens when there is a real and immediate threat to them? I understand gardaí cannot be everywhere but the man in County Mayo sought the protection of the Garda. The other family knew who was intimidating it. Can we not protect our citizens from threats? If not, we might as well forget about it.
I thank Senator Norris for raising the incident involving Travellers in Ennis. Perhaps the Leader will arrange a debate on Travellers' rights. While I recognise the difficulties Travellers face in the Ennis region, their actions in recent days have brought difficulties to the people of Ennis who are grappling with the issue and handling it exceptionally well. I was proud of the people of Ennis and County Clare who turned out in their thousands yesterday to welcome the visiting delegations. The difficulties that arose earlier in the day were overcome by the evening. Rogue elements of the kind involved in this incident have no place and are not condoned by anybody. I agree with Senator Norris's remarks. It was an outrageous situation and an attempt to damage the reputation and the people of Ennis. Thankfully, it did not succeed.
I support the comments by Senators Brian Hayes and Ryan on the way the Order of Business is being dealt with this week, especially the proposals for dealing with the Intoxicating Liquor Bill. I am the Fine Gael Party's spokesperson on this very important legislation, for which we have called on many occasions. However, the Bill is being rushed through the House and will not get the time and attention it deserves from all Senators. I ask the Leader to use her influence with the Minister to ensure it is dealt with in a proper manner. This will entail giving us the time to deal with it. Senator Tuffy and I, and other Senators, will be in the House until 6 p.m., yet we will be required to submit amendments for Committee Stage, scheduled to be taken tomorrow. It is unacceptable that we should be put under such pressure. I ask the Leader to see what can be done.
I join Senator Brian Hayes in welcoming the Special Olympics athletes. I also congratulate the organisers for holding the Games on an all-island basis. The welcome so manifest in the South is also manifest in the North, both from members of the public and the public authorities. It has been an exemplary act of community co-operation.
Will the Leader ask the Minster for Transport to use his good offices to encourage the National Roads Authority to take action on the tolling of the Drogheda bypass? It is a wonderful road incorporating a beautiful bridge. Motorists from the North cannot pay the toll in sterling, which creates an additional burden for them which will be pronounced on days on which football and international rugby matches are held. The difficulty with present arrangements, which act as a deterrent, could be easily addressed.
I support Senator Terry's comments on the Intoxicating Liquor Bill, which is complicated legislation. Perhaps there could be a bigger gap between Second and Committee Stages.
We all know there is a grave shortage of acute hospital beds in this city, not least in the children's hospitals. A few months ago the Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children with special responsibility for children, Deputy Brian Lenihan, attended a debate in the House on the fostering of children in the course of which I pointed out that, sometimes, children who required fostering were placed in acute hospital beds in the children's hospitals by the social services. While I am sure the Minister of State did not mean to misinform the House, he said this practice was being phased out.
Recently, Professor Denis Gill of the Royal College of Surgeons said in a speech that acute hospital beds for children had been used on 108 occasions last year to mind children for a few days, sometimes a few weeks and, in some cases, even a few months. Not only does this mean that children are in the wrong place, it also means that other children who are ill, some of whom may need urgent treatment, are not being treated. Will the Leader ask the Minister for Health and Children to return to the House to tell us what his Department and those involved in organising such care are doing?
I support the remarks of Senator Norris regarding what happened to publicans in the west. Much has been said in this House and other fora about Travellers' rights but they have obligations also. It appears that a certain section of that community considers its rights to involve subverting the rights of others. It is interesting to note the registration numbers of the vehicles involved. We are not discussing the traditional Traveller as we know him or her but transient traders who could buy and sell every Member in this Chamber and have a great deal of cash left over. It is important to ask the reason there was a failure to respond to the three 999 calls made. I regret to say this raises a very serious question. Are vintners under the protection of the law? As somebody who has worked in bars and experienced similar but less serious incidents, I can appreciate how the couple in question felt. There are serious questions which require answers.
The Taoiseach was heard to say last week that financial institutions had a moral responsibility to pass on the interest rate cut to their customers. I am sure everyone in this House agrees. However, if moral responsibility had been applied to Government decisions over the last 12 months, it would have altered the manner in which the country was run. The Minister for Health and Children has a moral responsibility to prevent people from lying on trolleys when they should be in hospital beds. He also has a moral responsibility to look after carers and provide services for those most in need.
Speech.
Senator Bannon appears to be making a statement.
The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform has a moral responsibility to ensure people have safe homes and safe streets while the Minister for Education and Science has a moral responsibility to ensure teachers and students have proper schools.
Does the Senator have a question for the Leader or is he seeking a debate?
I have a question.
Then put it.
We saw Deputy Noonan's moral code.
As the Taoiseach raised the issue of moral responsibility, I ask the Leader to make time available to debate it. It is something of which the Government and its spin doctors have lost sight which is the reason it is important to hold a debate. It is of the utmost importance to the general electorate.
What about the responsibility of the Opposition?
I wish to address the issues of tolerance and inclusivity but I am a little reluctant to speak following my colleague's speech on taking the high moral ground, which I thought belonged to others. In a week in which there is a great outpouring of tolerance in relation to the Special Olympics we have all witnessed wonderful scenes on television and in our towns. I must confess, however, that my home town of Drumshambo, host to the team from Mauritania, has not experienced them due to the team's visa problems which are devastating to the local committee.
In the context of tolerance and openness, I ask the Leader to consider requesting the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism, Deputy O'Donoghue, to make a statement to the House about growing intolerance at international football matches. There have been a number of comments in the media following the continual booing of a Georgian player due to the fact that he plays for Glasgow Rangers. There is an element of support for the Irish football team which is introducing an air of intolerance which was never present. I suggest that Fran Rooney, the new chief executive officer of the FAI, enter discussions with the Minister on the matter. On the issue of morality which has been raised in the House, we are talking about an unrepresentative minority which equates following the Republic of Ireland football team with following Celtic Football Club. They are separate entities.
Given the spirit of tolerance that is evident in the country, the House should take a position on this. The Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism should issue a statement condemning this encroachment on what has traditionally been a family affair. People who go to international matches would not have experienced this previously.
There is also a responsibility on the sports media. Members will be aware that, being a sports journalist, I have more than a passing interest in sport. The media have failed to make reference to this intolerable behaviour in their match reports. Perhaps the Leader would consider inviting the Minister to the House to make a statement on this issue.
The Senator can elaborate further when the Minister is here.
I wish to raise something that occurred in the House last week. It relates to an Oireachtas meeting at which two members of the Garda Síochána were present. One Deputy raised the issue that these members of the Garda were—
That is not relevant to this House.
This particular behaviour is intolerable and unacceptable to a Member of this House.
I upheld the sovereignty of the House.
Senator McCarthy, please refrain from discussing a matter which is not relevant to this House.
May I conclude on a different matter?
Yes, on a different matter.
Thank you. Reservations have been expressed by Members about the short time available to Members to acquaint themselves with the Intoxicating Liquor Bill and to conduct the necessary research. It is not appropriate for the Minister to publish a Bill in the morning and expect spokespersons to stay in the House all day to debate it. Ascot is on at present but I do not expect the Minister, Deputy McDowell, to go there like his colleague, the Minister for Finance, Deputy McCreevy, goes to Cheltenham.
That is not relevant.
What other Bills of such importance are being debated?
I ask the House to condemn the ESB for closing 27 retail outlets, most of them in the west. Five years ago County Roscommon had four ESB shops, but now not one is left open. Does the ESB wish to continue serving the entire population of the country or just the major population centres? The Taoiseach intervened with the lending institutions with regard to the cost of borrowing. He should now intervene with the ESB, which applies an APR of 22.9%. That is exorbitant and is causing severe hardship.
Will the Leader arrange for the Minister for Agriculture and Food to come to the House when negotiations are completed in Luxembourg on CAP reform? Commissioner Fischler has put forward proposals for regional solutions and greater flexibility at national level. He has nothing more than the renationalisation of the CAP in mind. The consequences for Irish agriculture and farming communities is that the existing decline will accelerate and the current supports of €460 million will be removed by 2006. The Seanad should have an urgent debate on this issue to ensure the Minister is aware of our support and, in the absence of a national plan for agriculture, to suggest to the Minister the need for a strategy to retain as many family farms as possible. It is important that the Leader invite the Minister to the House to debate this issue and that the Minister prevent the renationalisation of the CAP in Europe.
The Leader of Opposition, Senator Brian Hayes, said with regard to the Intoxicating Liquor Bill that too short a period has been given to engage in a full examination of its intricacies. I will come back to that later. Senators are entitled to the very best of service and information from all sides. I would add, though not by way of self-justification, that we did circulate, not an early draft but sketches of what the Bill was about, to party leaders and spokespersons some day last week – Thursday, I think. Thus, the Bill was not a bolt from the blue, so to speak. I have just checked and I understand the leaders and spokespersons on justice of each party received some material through my office.
My colleague, Senator Dardis, has noted that on 11 June, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform discussed the general scheme of the Bill with the Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights. The content of the Bill has been adapted – particularly sections 17 and 21(1)(b) – to take account of a number of concerns raised by members of the joint committee. I point that out not in self-justification but simply to indicate that the Bill is not quite a bolt from the blue. I am not sure which Members of this House sit on the joint committee but I am sure some do.
I will inquire if it is possible to take Committee Stage on Friday or next Monday, but I will have to come back to the House on the matter after I have made those inquiries. I accept that to take Committee Stage the day after the Second Stage debate is a very rapid progression, to put it mildly, so I will see if it would suit the Minister to take Committee Stage on Friday or Monday of next week.
Senators asked that the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Martin, should come to the House to discuss the health strategy. The Minister fully intends to come to this House before we dissolve—
Dissolve? Does the Leader know something we do not?
No, not dissolve – I mean before the summer break. I discussed this personally with the Minister yesterday, and he intends to come to the House. I do not know what date it will be because he is not going to the Dáil with his proposals until Friday week, but we will have the Minister here before we break up.
The Special Olympics is just wonderful. Every time one reads about it, sees it on television or encounters it in one's home town or area, the athletes are like shining beacons of light. When one sees their faces, their helpers, their families and what they are doing, it raises morale and spirits, and it is such an inspiration to all of us to see such wholehearted participation and joy. We all had that sense of anticipation and participation, I suppose, when we were younger, but to see it now amongst these athletes is inspiring. We have all been ennobled by their nobility. Noble is very much what they are, and I thank Senator Hayes for raising the matter because it deserves proper acclamation.
Senator Norris agrees with Senator Brian Hayes regarding the Intoxicating Liquor Bill 2003, and he also raised the issue of gangland murders. The Senator has been very prominent indeed in raising the issues of the Traveller community in a very positive way. That is why the Senator, and the rest of us, have been struck by the carry on in Mayo. I do not know the details of the issue so I would not comment on the unanswered 999 calls, but the Senator properly draws attention to the whole issue.
Senator Brendan Ryan objects to the celerity of the proposed passage of the Intoxicating Liquor Bill, and he also wishes to have a debate on health reform. We will certainly have such a debate. The Senator rightly argues that citizens are entitled to have their rights protected, but sometimes when one reads stories about calls not being answered and so on, there is a story behind the story. I would hesitate to be castigatory until we have got more facts.
Senator Dooley agreed with Senator Norris, particularly with regard to Ennis, and we saw on television last night the great welcome the town gave to the athletes. The same welcome was extended everywhere, in wee villages as well as larger population areas, but the Senator is right and I am glad that matter concerning Travellers in the town was resolved quickly.
Senator Sheila Terry talked also about rushing the Bill, saying that they would be here all day. Our spokespersons have voices and will be here all day too.
I do not mind being here all day. It is a question of having amendments in by tomorrow.
Fair enough, but in general terms the spokespersons of all the parties will be here all day.
Allow the Leader to speak without interruption.
The speed of the Committee Stage is the point of contention.
I will stay all night if necessary.
Everybody is very good, but two or three speakers on the other side of the House said that they would be here and we will be here too.
Allow the Leader her entitlement to speak without interruption.
Senator Maurice Hayes correctly pointed out that the Special Olympics is run on an all-Ireland basis, which is a good thing. So many sports gain credibility by being for the island as a whole. The Drogheda bypass is a huge anomaly when the currency question arises.
Senator Mary Henry referred to the acute beds in children's hospitals being given to psychiatric patients.
To children who are being fostered.
Yes. She said the Minister assured her that this practice was being phased out but that it does not appear to be. Senator Glynn, supporting Senator Norris, preferred the term "transient traders" to "Travelling community" and referred to the Garda issue. Senator Bannon wants all of us to speak up about moral responsibility. I would have to find a professor of theology to respond to that.
The Taoiseach is supposed to be giving a lead.
Order, please.
First the Minister for Health and Children, then the Minister for Justice Equality and Law Reform and the Minister for Education and Science in the bar.
Senator Bannon, please, no interruption.
Senator Mooney referred to the growing intolerance at international matches and asked when the Minister should come here to discuss it. Senator Mooney said that the sports media did not appear to have any view but I did catch Des Cahill on "Morning Ireland" saying something in passing about the disgraceful nature of this behaviour.
Senator McCarthy attempted to raise the matter of what happened at a committee but we will not talk about that. I understand his point. Senator Norris made a powerful remark at that meeting. Senator McCarthy also raised the matter of the abbreviated debate on the Intoxicating Liquor Bill, which is a very important Bill.
Senator Feighan condemned the ESB for closing its outlets and for its APR of 22.9%. We live in a different world now. Most areas have large shops selling all the required electrical goods, which would not have been available in or through other outlets many years ago. If he wishes to make his complaint I will pass it on.
Senator Ulick Burke wants to invite the Minister for Agriculture and Food to discuss the conclusion of the CAP reforms. I have put in for this. When the matter has concluded it would be useful to have a debate but not before then.
Finally, without any plamás, I wish to congratulate Senator Brian Hayes on his new appointment.