Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 21 Nov 2023

Vol. 297 No. 5

Nithe i dtosach suíonna - Commencement Matters

Policing Co-operation

Senator Victor Boyhan

I concur with the Cathaoirleach's comments and welcome the Minister for Justice. She is no stranger to this House. We value the fact that she is the front-line Minister and has ultimate responsibility for the administration of justice, policing and many other aspects of her Department's work.

I thank her for being here. I appreciate her coming to House to deal with this important matter.

When we talk about policing, the key word is partnership. It is critical that we engage with our city and county councillors, the Garda Síochána, local authorities and the business community - all the stakeholders in our community. The Minister will be very familiar with the joint policing committees, JPCs, and the aim behind them, which is for greater consultation, co-operation, engagement and synergy in the administration of policing in our local areas. Traditionally, JPCs have been made up of the chairpersons of the local representatives, Garda officers nominated by the Garda Commissioner, local authority members and Members of the Oireachtas. That is really important because it is one of the few occasions when city and county councillors meet in a more formal structured way with Oireachtas Members to deal with policing. Partnership policing is about consultation, considers recommendations and supports the policing structures in place on the ground. With her vision for tackling crime and making our streets and our communities safer places, the Minister knows that we need to draw on the strength and expertise of all the stakeholders in this.

There has been some communication which is misleading to say the least. A number of councillors from all parties and none have contacted my office in the past week to ask what is going on. There seem to be misunderstandings. There has been some suggestion that there may be no city and county councillors on the committees. That is not my understanding, but it is important to have a look at the matter. Whatever way we call it, ultimately it is about co-operation and facilitating stakeholders to participate in a policing process. I ask the Minister to take the opportunity to set out her stall. She is driving the policy. It is her key competence and key area. It is important that we liaise with the structures on the ground. We need to have a role for An Garda Síochána and all the other stakeholders, but we also need to have a role for city and county councillors in the process. I hope the Minister can shed some light on the matter today and we can actually deal in facts rather than misunderstandings so that we can leave here today knowing her vision and plan for community policing and the role of all of the stakeholders as part of that process.

Minister for Justice (Deputy Helen McEntee)

I thank the Senator for giving me an opportunity to correct some of the misinformation about this important legislation and to set out how I envisage the local community safety partnerships operating in the years ahead. The overall objective is to build stronger safer communities. As the Senator said, people must feel safe and be safe in their homes. To build stronger safer communities, the communities themselves, either directly or through their public representatives, need to have a real say in how to improve their local areas because nobody knows than the local community better than those working in it and part of it themselves. This approach goes far beyond the traditional policing response. It is not just the responsibility of An Garda Síochána alone although, of course, high-visibility policing is central to it. It requires all relevant State bodies, voluntary organisations, councillors, TDs, Senators and other elected representatives and local community and business groups working together in a joined-up way in partnership with the local community to prioritise and effectively address issues in their own areas. It is very specific to each area because we all have challenges in our own counties and specific townlands.

The local community safety partnerships are provided for in Part 3 of the Policing, Security and Community Safety Bill, which, of course, I hope comes before the House shortly for Committee Stage. It is worth noting that the proposals in the Bill have already been approved by Dáil Éireann and prior to that the proposals were included in the general scheme of the Bill. Of course, the Bill was subject to pre-legislative scrutiny which took place over 2021 and 2022 and, of course, Members of this House were involved in that. These partnerships will operate at a local authority level and will replace the joint policing committees. I acknowledge the significant work that has been done by those on the joint policing committees. As somebody who goes to the local joint policing committees, I see the benefit of that engagement. What we are doing with the community safety partnerships is building on that fantastic work. The partnerships will serve as a forum for discussion and more importantly as a key driver of action in local communities to increase safety.

It is also important to say funding will be available for these partnerships. Each pilot to date has benefited from the community safety innovation fund, which I established and for which budget 2024 provides even further investment. At the moment it is €3.75 million. I can see that increasing year on year.

The Policing, Security and Community Safety Bill will place a statutory obligation on Departments and other public service bodies to co-operate with each other to improve community safety. The partnerships will have a wider membership than the JPCs currently have. They will include residents, community representative organisations, including representatives of young people, older people, new and minority communities, and business and education representatives; as well as a range of public services, including HSE, Tusla, of course An Garda Síochána and the local authority. I stress that local councillors will remain a very important part of the make-up of these new fora.

Senators will be aware we have had pilot partnerships. They are currently running in Longford, Waterford and Dublin's north inner city. They have all drafted community safety plans which show the real value of inputs from the wider stakeholders. For example, in Dublin the business group suggested the idea of community safety wardens. Dublin City Council committed to improving public lighting and the streetscape. The Longford County Council committed to installing additional CCTV cameras and that the partnerships would receive regular updates and give feedback on the roll-out of these cameras. In Waterford, the HSE committed to increasing harm reduction information in pubs, clubs and youth clubs. Many different actions are already taking place that everybody is feeding into. These are just a handful of those actions.

There are six to seven local councillors on each of the pilots to date. They are chosen from among the team of councillors. When establishing the pilots, we adopted the approach of the membership mirroring that of other local government committee structures, including the local community development committees, LCDCs, and the strategic policy committees. Not all councillors are on them, but they change and swap over. Councillors are on different committees at different stages and this is what we are trying to replicate here.

The Bill currently before the Seanad does not specify the composition of each partnership but provides that it will be a matter for the Minister to set up through secondary legislation. This provides for a more flexible approach, allowing for future changes if something is not working effectively. In the Garda Síochána Act of 2005, the membership or composition of JPCs was not specified; that was all done at a later date. We are trying here to provide that flexibility again.

I will come in on a few other matters, if that is okay, afterwards.

Senator Victor Boyhan

I thank the Minister for a comprehensive six-page response to a three-line Commencement matter. She has clarified a lot of it for me. She has clearly said and reminded us – and it did not dawn on me until I was sitting here – that Dáil Éireann has passed this legislation, maybe subject to changes. I am anxious this legislation comes to the Seanad. The majority in the Seanad is replicated by the political affiliations in Dáil Éireann. I presume it follows that there will be support for it. More important are the Minister's words that “local councillors will remain a very important part of the make-up of these new fora”. I welcome that and I think councillors from all groups and none will welcome it. The Minister says the Bill before the Seanad does not specify the composition of the partnerships but that she will outline that in secondary legislation.

I thank the Minister for her detailed response and for reassuring me and city and county councillors around the country that there is a role and function for them in a policing partnership. That is important. The Minister has recognised that and they will value that very much. It would also be helpful to continue to have engagement with the Local Authority Members Association, LAMA, and the AILG because the more people understand what the vision is and the plans are, the more supportive they will be of them.

Deputy Helen McEntee

I reassure the Senator of that continued engagement. Throughout the pilot process we have had consistent engagement with the LGMA and with the County and City Management Association, CCMA. Last December we held webinars and information seminars where the chair of the JPCs and the administrative officers were also invited. We will continue to engage.

It is important to note an independent evaluation is looking at the three pilots. The reason I do not have that finalised is the Dublin partnership only published its plan in September. We need to give it time to bed down. I will be taking on board how those have worked and any changes that need to be made. I accept some counties are bigger than others, some have larger populations than others and some have more than one JPC. When we are rolling out new community partnerships we have to be mindful of that and of the reputation that is there.

I am clear there needs to continue to be a way for all councillors, whether on the committee or not, to be fully briefed by the community safety partnerships and have continuous engagement locally with members of An Garda Síochána

Under the pilot schemes, there are meetings where all of the communities and the general public can engage on the partnership. Regardless of whether that happens more than once, there are many opportunities where everybody can have a say and be connected with the partnership while, at the same time, making sure that the size does not become so big that it cannot actually focus on the plan at hand.

I am absolutely committed to making sure these work, that it has full, proper and equal representation across all of the areas I mentioned from a public and private side and, most importantly, that the objective is not lost. It is not just the Garda that has a role in safety; it is all communities. I want to see that can work properly.

An Cathaoirleach

As the independent Chair but as a member of the joint policing committee in Cork, I endorse what Senator Boyhan and the Minister said about the importance of local government members and the importance of that dynamic continuing. I am delighted the Minister gave those comments. It is refreshing. The local councillor element at the joint policing committee, as we all know, is critical to success.

Healthcare Policy

An Cathaoirleach

I am glad Senator Keogan is here. It is good to see her. I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Butler, to the House.

Senator Sharon Keogan

Earlier this year, I called for a debate on Ireland opting out of the amendments to five articles in the international health regulations that were adopted on 27 May 2022 by the World Health Assembly. On that day, 194 unelected, unaccountable and largely unknown delegates to the assembly from WHO member states agreed on amendments to five separate articles of the international health regulations, namely, articles 55, 59, and 61 to 63, inclusive. These amendments are legally binding on WHO member states and do not require ratification by national legislatures or presidential signatures, both of which are required for national legislation under Irish law. While four of these amendments give no cause for concern, the amendment of Article 59 slashes the period after which future amendments would come into force from 24 months to 12 months. Furthermore, the time during which a member state can exercise its right to reject was shortened by 18 months to ten months.

Amendments to the international health regulations often have sweeping effects on WHO member states. The periods after their passing are an essential time to allow individual states to appraise such amendments and choose whether to opt out, as allowed for by Article 61. The World Health Assembly, WHA, is now examining a whopping 307 amendments to the international health regulations, which are expected to be decided at the 77th assembly in May 2024. If Ireland does not opt out of the May 2022 amendments, we will have only one year to prepare for the implementation of these 307 amendments in our country and even less than one year to decide which ones will be of benefit to Ireland and which we could do without. No one in this House or outside of it is under any illusion as to the current health of our healthcare system. We need all the time we can get if huge, sweeping changes are to be made and imposed on us by the WHO. If we do not opt out of the amendment to Article 59, the HSE and the Department of Health simply will not have that time when it comes to May 2024 and the international health regulations are amended more than 300 times. As such, I think Ireland should reject the 2022 amendments to Article 59 of the international health regulations and President Higgins and An Taoiseach should write to the WHO to signal this.

Minister of State at the Department of Health (Deputy Mary Butler)

I thank Senator Keogan for raising this important matter. As the recent Covid-19 pandemic has demonstrated, international co-operation is vital in the response to cross-border health threats. As such, Ireland strongly supports a multilateral approach to global health issues, with the World Health Organization in a central leadership role.

The purpose and scope of the World Health Organization regulations is to prevent, protect against, control and provide a public health response to the international spread of disease in ways that are commensurate with and restricted to public health risks, and which avoid unnecessary interference with international traffic and trade.

These regulations act as an important mechanism for international co-ordination and provide the basis within international law for the setting up of reporting structures for the monitoring and reporting of issues relating to infectious diseases, particularly where they may pose an international threat. Following the Covid-19 pandemic, several World Health Organization member states expressed the need to strengthen these regulations under agenda item 16.2 of the 75th World Health Assembly in May 2022. Accordingly, the establishment of a working group on the international health regulations was approved on 27 May 2022.

Noting Senator Keogan’s concerns regarding Ireland's decision on opting out of the amendment made to Article 59 of the international health regulations, IHR, I would like to clarify that the decision made by the World Health Assembly on 27 May 2022 did not amend the regulations. Rather, it commenced the negotiation process to amend the regulations which is currently ongoing and is due to conclude by May 2024. The working group has been tasked with discussing targeted amendments to the IHR to address specific identified issues, challenges and gaps, which are critical to supporting effective implementation and compliance with the IHR going forward. More than 300 proposed amendments have been submitted by WHO states parties, with common themes including equity, transparency, collaboration and assistance, in addition to the overarching principle of strengthening accountability to protect global public health. While Ireland did not submit any proposals, it plays an active role in the discussions.

As provided for in the Irish Constitution, the conclusion of an international agreement such as the IHR is an exercise of the executive power of the State in connection with its external relations and is therefore concluded by or on the authority of the Irish Government. In practice this means that Government approval must be sought for the signature, ratification, or approval of the amended international health regulations. However, this can only take place once the agreement has been finalised.

As such, I would like to assure the Senator that no amendments to the IHR will take effect in December 2023. Article 59 of the IHR will only be applicable once a final text has been agreed by the working group and submitted for the consideration of the 77th World Health Assembly in May 2024, at which Ireland will be represented.

Senator Sharon Keogan

I appreciate the attempt at reassurance on where our health service is going to be going forward. However, it does not give me any comfort. The media has been entirely silent on this. If it were not for a few good people with their ears to the ground, all of Ireland would be ignorant of what is happening over on the Continent, where laws are being made which will drastically impact the lives of Irish people. We do not know who is making them, nor do we appear to have any say in the matter. It simply does not sit right with me nor with many other Irish people who expect to be ruled by an Irish Government. I have said in the past that the Government is engaged in a piecemeal parcelling out of Ireland's sovereignty and I stand by that. Will the Minister of State please allow the HSE and the Department the necessary time to react to the WHO changes and opt out of this amendment to Article 59?

Deputy Mary Butler

The Department of Health is leading the co-ordination of Ireland’s position in respect of the proposals to amend the IHR. This work involves working with the relevant policy units in the Department, Government Departments, Ireland's permanent representation to the UN in Geneva, EU member states and EU partners on this matter. I would again like to reassure the Senator that Article 59 of the IHR will only be applicable once a final text has been agreed and adopted by the World Health Assembly, at which Ireland will be represented. As negotiations are still ongoing in relation to these amendments, it is not possible at this time to determine the precise legal ramifications of these amendments, if agreed, nor has it been determined what form if any these amendments will take. As such I would like to re-state that no amendments to the IHR will take effect in December 2023.

The requirements of the Irish Constitution will, of course, be fully reflected in Ireland’s position towards these negotiations, and my Department will engage with the Office of the Attorney General on any concerns that may arise in this regard. Ireland will continue to fully engage with the work of both the working group of international health regulations and the IHR review committee to ensure that ambitious, fair and implementable amendments are submitted for adoption to the World Health Assembly in 2024.

Mental Health Services

Senator Erin McGreehan

The Minister of State is very welcome. I am very glad the Minister of State responsible for this area is here. It is crucial that we address head-on the issue that no one should feel helpless and alone in circumstances where they have a mental health crisis. I ask the Minister of State to outline the supports available to an individual going through the trauma and also to family members who are trying to support that individual during that time. We all know that people do not plan to get sick. They do not expect it. Most of the time it comes out of the blue. As the Minister of State knows, mental health crises are often the same way. It is necessary to provide the necessary support and guidance to those individuals and families during these challenging times. I ask that we focus on establishing a comprehensive support system that is accessible to all in all circumstances. Often individuals and families are not sure where to seek health during a crisis. When they do go to the accident and emergency department and ask for that help, they should be able to receive it and not have to fight for it. Hospitals need more support workers and more trained professionals in order to help patients arriving at the doors, to be able to signpost and answer questions and to talk a family through what is happening.

Two stories have been highlighted to me recently by people in the constituency in which I live. Both the stories involve patients at Beaumont Hospital. One person had to fight tooth and nail to save her dad and convince doctors and psychologists that he warranted entry to a safe environment in order to get better. She begged to be heard and understood. She and her father were sent home with a list of ways to manage anxiety. No medication or intervention was provided. They were told to go to the GP. It began a very difficult time at home and a fight to survive. The person in question had to stay with her dad because she was incredibly worried, and rightly so. They called for an ambulance within 24 hours. The Minister of State can imagine how afraid and vulnerable her dad was, as she was herself. A doctor told her that her father had wasted resources and that he did not warrant the ambulance. Imagine hearing that from a medical professional. Even if it was not life and death at that moment, who was he to judge and to make a person feel more vulnerable?

Another young father was sent away because he was not in the Beaumont Hospital catchment area. He was promised that the matter would be followed up in the correct area but this never happened. Unfortunately and tragically, this young man took his own life, leaving a family in despair and a young child without a father. That in turn becomes a whole family trauma and leads to mental health difficulties.

The man in question was told by the doctor that he was not experiencing mental health difficulties. However, the doctor also mentioned that he was seeing an average of 20 people a day with mental health issues. These figures are shocking. The doctor saying he had wasted resources is more troubling as he also admitted to the man that he had only ever admitted two patients with mental health issues in his time in the accident and emergency department in Beaumont Hospital. The Minister of State gives a lot of resources. She is the most proactive mental health Minister of State we have ever had and has provided the largest budgets. She is putting out these policies and resources and but when a person goes to hospital, they lack advocacy and feel they are turned away at every opportunity. I have a few more questions but I will ask them in the follow-up.

Deputy Mary Butler

I thank the Senator for raising this matter. I always look forward to coming to the Seanad and to any opportunity I can get to speak about mental heath and the fact that recovery is possible. Lived experience and what patients go through is something we have to listen to and learn from. That is important.

The answer that has been presented to me relates to crisis resolution services but I will speak in general first. One in four people, at some stage in their life, will have an issue with their mental health.

Thankfully, we are speaking more openly and more freely about it now. For many people, a visit to their GP and the support received from there can be sufficient, but there are other people who may have an acute mental health episode which might require a great deal of help, which is why we have more than 68 approved centres in the country, which are departments of psychiatry. These are for people who would have an acute mental health challenge and who need support. It is important people reach out for those supports because, unfortunately, in Ireland, we are seeing that three quarters of all suicides in Ireland are men and one quarter are female. I am very conscious of the fact that Sunday was International Men's Day and this is International Men's Health Week. A very significant proportion of people, men in particular, who need supports are not reaching out. That was not the case being presented by the Senator today and I cannot speak to an individual case. In this case, men of different ages reached out for help and they felt the help they got was not sufficient.

On 26 May this year, I launched the crisis resolution services model of care. It represents a significant step forward in the provision of targeted mental health supports for people experiencing a crisis. It also fulfils a long-standing goal, aligning with a number of recommendations in Sharing the Vision, our national mental health policy. Our national mental health policy puts the service user front and centre. It is cross-departmental because if a person has issues outside of his or her health or issues with regard to housing, social protection or justice, it can trigger a mental health episode.

The demand for a crisis resolution services model of care arose from the recognition that those experiencing mental health crises often require specialist supports after hours and at weekends. It offers person-centred intensive supports in a timely way to assist the service user in his or her recovery journey. Importantly, it seeks to offer an alternative to inpatient admission. The national crisis resolution service steering group was responsible for overseeing and advising on the design and development of a model of care and pilot implementation plan. Membership included representatives from each location and national representatives such as psychiatry, social work, occupational therapy, psychology, nursing, mental health operations, mental health planning, etc.

Crisis resolution teams are community-based multidisciplinary teams that provide rapid assessment and intensive support to individuals who are in a mental health crisis, working rapidly and co-operatively to help people in a mental health crisis. This pilot scheme sees the incorporation of the teams in five different pilot learning sites: CHO 1, CHO 4, CHO 5 and CHO 6, and a fifth site due to open in quarter 4 of 2023. The reason these particular areas were picked is that these were identified as areas with very poor supports out of hours. The other areas would have been deemed as having supports out of hours. Crisis resolution teams will also play a role in supporting out-of-hours crisis cafés, or solace cafés. They will provide a friendly and supportive crisis prevention and response service. They will run in partnership with different community agencies. I will continue my contribution in my next part.

Senator Erin McGreehan

I thank the Minister of State for her genuine and thoughtful answer. Our basic requirement for patients when they have these crisis moments is to trust the system and to feel safe. That is a step to recovery and to being able to trust that system. A key point, particularly when the Minister of State's Department is doing so much in the area, is that it needs to filter down to the accident and emergency department. When I googled what to do in an accident and emergency department and what the best advice for me is, there was nothing or any advice for me. Nothing came up for me. When a person is in crisis, who does that person do to ensure they are not dismissed and do not feel inferior, a nuisance, unheard or that they are going crazy because nobody is listening to them? We must offer and make this service a far better one when somebody presents to an accident and emergency department.

I know the Minister of State is so committed to this because we have had conversations with her before about this. It is something on which I would very much like to work with the Minister of State to be able to understand as a local representative, to be able to help signpost my constituents and to give them the support the Minister of State is putting in place.

Deputy Mary Butler

I thank the Senator. She has a good point which many of her colleagues make every day in the Dáil and Seanad. The first port of call for anybody who is in distress should always be the GP. Always reach out to somebody in your family, if you can at all. So many people do not reach out. If the GP or an ambulance is called, you will be brought to the emergency department.

It would be expected that, within a short space of time, you would be seen by somebody with a psychiatric background to conduct an assessment. That is the most important thing. It is also important that people realise recovery is possible. In the HSE at the moment, there is a new group which is recovery and education-focused. Everyone working there has lived experience of mental health difficulties. We include peer support, which is important.

I am happy to speak to the Senator offline about the two cases she raised to see if I can do anything to help. All I can say to people is please reach out if they need help. I know in these cases people reached out but they felt sufficient help was not provided. I am very sorry that was the case.

Renewable Energy Generation

Senator Niall Blaney

I welcome the Minister of State to the House. I raise this matter and call on the Government and European Union to act swiftly to deal with the dumping of electricity generated by renewable sources, particularly in rural areas. I can speak only in real terms of County Donegal. The situation there, as I know it, is that most of the energy produced by the wind farms and hydro station is currently dumped and wasted. In the current climate, with the price people are paying for electricity, it is not good enough. I have with me the EirGrid implementation plan for 2023 to 2028. It is not fit for purpose for the western seaboard or places like County Donegal. The north, north west and west are the points with the greatest ability to create that energy into the future but we are not planning for it. Our network is not fit for purpose.

What plans are there, over and above what is in the plan, to move this issue on and to ensure that when we develop offshore wind, the network is fit for purpose? Someone needs to drive this at European level. The European Union should be driving on, considering what we have gone through since the war in Ukraine. Current technology should be used to join up all member states to ensure we can buy and sell electricity to each country as needed. What I see in front of me does not give any answers or conclusions as to when County Donegal will have the network required. Currently, we dump between 21 and 22 hours of our resources out of 24 hours per day. That is an awful indictment and an awful waste. Donegal is one of the biggest contributors in renewable energy yet we are dumping it. It is not good enough. I want to hear solutions and the plan for what will be done. There must be some way of putting it into the network because we cannot afford to let what is happening go on.

Minister of State at the Department of the Environment, Climate and Communications (Deputy Ossian Smyth)

I thank Senator Blaney for asking this question. The Climate Action Plan 2023 sets out a roadmap for taking decisive action to halve our greenhouse gas emissions by 2030 and to reach net zero not later than 2050.

To halve our emissions and set ourselves on the road to net zero, we have to deliver, and accelerate where possible, the renewable electricity targets set in the Climate Action Plan 2023. These targets include 80% of electricity demand being met from renewable energy by 2030. Accelerating the delivery of actions in the electricity sector will be key to meeting the climate targets and staying within our sectoral emissions ceiling.

Meeting projected demand by 2030 will require enabling various forms of renewable electricity. As such, we have set targets to be met. These include 9 GW of onshore wind, 8 GW of solar and at least 5 GW of offshore wind. To deliver the generation assets required and the ability to meet the expected increase in demand, we must also deliver a heretofore unprecedented amount of national electricity grid infrastructure.

The Commission for Regulation of Utilities, CRU, is the independent regulator. It is accountable to a committee of the Oireachtas and not to me as Minister of State. It has been assigned responsibility for the regulation of the electricity market and this includes supervision of electricity system operators. System operators Eirgrid and ESB Networks are tasked with building, safely operating and maintaining an electricity system that is fit for purpose.

As Minister of State, I do not have a role in the delivery of electricity grid infrastructure. This is in line with the 2012 Government policy statement on the strategic importance of transmission and other energy infrastructure. This states the Government does not seek to direct EirGrid and ESB Networks or other energy infrastructure developers to particular sites, routes or technologies.

My officials continue to engage with system operators on the future of the electricity system. EirGrid, as transmission system operator, must operate and develop our high voltage transmission network. This network carries wholesale electricity around the country powering some large energy consumers and the distribution network, which, in turn, powers every electricity customer in the country.

Plan-led approaches will play a key role in the future electricity system. In July, EirGrid published version 1.1 of Shaping Our Electricity Future. This provides its updated road map to 2030 for the transmission grid necessary to deliver on the renewable energy targets as set in the Climate Action Plan 2023. To develop a grid that is fit for purpose and can utilise all envisaged types of renewable generation, both onshore and offshore, we must ensure that our future grid has appropriate access to neighbouring electricity markets. This is achieved through interconnection.

The North-South interconnector, which will link the grids North and South, will form part of the backbone of a fit-for-purpose electricity system, helping to ensure energy security and reduce electricity costs. EirGrid is engaging with local affected communities as part of advancing this key project. Separately, the Celtic interconnector will provide a 700 MW link between Ireland and the European internal energy market by connecting Ireland to France. Earlier this month, a delegation from the French Government visited Ireland to mark the start of construction of this key project.

I want to address some of the points Senator Blaney made about Donegal. There was no reference to Donegal the Senator put down, but I am happy to speak about it. Senator Blaney said he believes the vast majority of renewable energy generated in Donegal is being dumped. I am not aware of this. I am happy to look into it. If this is what is happening, it is not right and it should not be the case.

The North-South interconnector in very important. We have had years and years of debate, process and planning but it has now got to the stage where everything is fully consented and construction and development are under way. We are in the construction phase. Senator Blaney knows how important it is that if we have a surplus of electricity available in the North and not available in the South that we can balance between the two grids and have good interconnection between them. We have electricity interconnection to the UK but nowhere else. France is next, and we have plans for three further countries. We have approximately 0.5 GW of interconnection outside of Ireland. We expect that we will have 5 GW, in other words ten times more, by 2033.

Senator Niall Blaney

I thank the Minister of State. I get that Donegal was not part of the question but the Minister of State can examine it and check it out. The reason that between 21 and 22 hours of energy is being dumped every day is because we do not have a network to carry it out of the county. One connector with Northern Ireland will not be sufficient for our future needs. The plans in place by various organisations are completely insufficient if we are to develop the capacity that is not only in the Government's current plans but also those for the future.

Moreover, there is an opportunity for the country, as part of the EU, to develop an asset for the State using our offshore wind.

As someone from the north west, it is sickening to see that the first offshore wind energy development will be on the east coast, with the west coast treated as an afterthought. That does not matter to some people and all they really care about is reaching our targets, but that is not good enough. Neither is it good enough that we do not have a network.

Will the Minister of State examine the case of Donegal? The Government needs to consider the network nationally. We need a network that is fit for purpose and can look after all of our people across all of the island in future.

Deputy Ossian Smyth

I would like to work with the Senator to find out what is happening in terms of renewable electricity generated in Donegal and what quantity is being generated there.

The reason offshore wind is being developed on the east coast before the west coast is twofold: there is a larger population on the east coast and, more importantly, it is easier to put turbines off the east coast because the waters there are shallower. The west coast is windier than the east coast, so there is more potential for generating electricity. It is also more beautiful and has deeper waters. We believe that the technology that will suit the west coast will be floating wind turbines. It is not a commercialised technology yet, although there are pilot projects in Portugal and Scotland. It will be developed in the 2030s. Offshore wind will be developed on the east coast before the west coast.

The Senator is right that we need better internal connections as well as connections to other countries. The North-South interconnector does not cross Donegal. It crosses the Border north-south rather than east-west. We will need increases in the grid. The Senator should read EirGrid’s strategy, Shaping Our Electricity Future, which was published in July, where it relates to Donegal and see whether he is happy with what is included. If he is not, he can revert to me, as I am a Minister of State in the relevant Department.

Acting Chairperson (Senator Martin Conway)

I thank the Minister of State for his time. It is appreciated. I know how busy he is.

Community Development Projects

Acting Chairperson (Senator Martin Conway)

I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Noonan.

Senator Paul Gavan

I welcome the Minister of State. I ask him to make a statement about future funding under the social intervention fund for Limerick city and the implications for vital community projects.

The economic and social intervention fund for Limerick city was set up under the Limerick regeneration framework implementation plan, which set out a programme of physical, social and economic interventions over a ten-year period and is due to end on 31 December. The fund has financially supported 180 social, economic and community development projects across Limerick.

The areas that will be impacted by the loss of this funding include regeneration areas of Ballinacurra Weston, Moyross, Southill and St. Mary’s Park. Projects affected include the Bedford Row Family Project, Limerick Youth Service and Limerick Island Community Partners, serving the King's Island area. The fund also supports Our Lady of Lourdes community centre, the Southill Hub and Moyross groups like Extern and the Moyross Community Enterprise Centre. It has also benefited St. Munchin’s Community Centre. These services are the foundation of the communities they support. Their work is far too important and Limerick cannot afford to lose any of them through a lack of funding.

My party leader, Mary Lou McDonald, my colleague, Maurice Quinlivan, and the Sinn Féin team in Limerick visited St. Mary’s Park, among others, on Friday. People there told us that they had been advised that no further funding was available, they had up to 1,200 individuals dependent on their services and the projects they ran were essential for the local area and individuals, leading to increased confidence and employment of those who would otherwise be left behind. They told us that Limerick City and County Council had acknowledged that the services were too important to lose but had been unable to confirm any funding stream as yet. The council had advised the centre that it should put the staff on notice and that their jobs were now at risk. This affects 12 individuals in full- and part-time work whose positions are dependent on this scheme. If funding is not sourced by February, it is likely that the centre will have to close down. It will no longer be able to support interventions in one of the most deprived areas of the State.

Numerous parliamentary questions have been raised with the Minister by Deputy Quinlivan seeking assurances around the continuation of funding for the various community centres, projects, groups and clubs that currently depend on this funding. Responses from the Minister stating that the Department is awaiting a response from Limerick City and County Council on seeking alternative funding sources are concerning.

We are six weeks away from the funding cliff edge. Staff are worried they will have no jobs in the new year and it is causing so much stress waiting for clarity on their future. The staff are not just worried about their own jobs. They are genuinely worried about the loss of services to the community they care so passionately about. These are the concerns of just one of the groups we spoke to. There are so many more that will be affected.

This date for the end of funding was set ten years ago. Why has it taken so long for anyone to come up with a plan for alternative sources of funding? I would hate to think that any of these groups or community services will be lost as a result of sheer incompetence or neglect to ensure the stability and funding of community services across Limerick. The regeneration funding might be ending but it must be said the regeneration project is far from being complete. Does the Minister of State have some clarity on the possible sources of funding going forward? Will he give any reassurance to those workers who, even as we speak, have been put under protective notice even and to the communities affected?

Minister of State at the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage (Deputy Malcolm Noonan)

My Department currently supports a programme of large-scale regeneration projects in Limerick, Dublin and Cork and smaller projects in Tralee, Sligo and Dundalk. These regeneration projects target the country's most disadvantaged communities and seek to address the causes of disadvantage in these communities through an holistic programme of physical, social and economic regeneration.

As the Senator is keenly aware, the Limerick regeneration framework implementation plan, LRFIP, was adopted by the then Limerick City Council in February 2014. This plan set out a programme of physical, social and economic interventions over a ten-year period from 2014 to 2023. The plan is now in its final year. A key element of the LRFIP to date has been the economic and social intervention fund, ESIF, and approximately €4 million per annum over the past ten years has been made available from my Department. This fund supports a range of social and economic initiatives to strengthen the local communities in the target areas of Moyross, Ballinacurra Weston, St. Mary's Park and Southill. This fund is an integral part of the overall approach to regeneration and helps to leverage additional mainstream funding for the benefit of the areas.

Limerick City and County Council is responsible for the operation of the programme. Projects proposed for funding are selected through an open process reviewed by an independent assessment committee whose recommendations are sent to my Department for confirmation of funding. The council also operates an appeals process for unsuccessful applicants. A review completed in 2016 of the LRFIP showed that the social interventions in the Limerick regeneration areas had a positive effect on the communities. I think the Senator pointed this out in his opening remarks. Investment in this area has focused on school services, community centres, family support, youth work, improving the health and well-being and quality of life of residents, improving the social environment and safety on the estates, and access to further education, training and work.

As the Limerick agreed programme concludes in 2023, my Department has asked Limerick City and County Council to develop a strategy for the future funding of these important initiatives. This is to ensure the benefits of regeneration can be built upon and carried on into the years ahead. My Department has agreed to continue funding of the ESIF for 2024 and has requested Limerick City and County Council to submit proposals for review. The Senator can rest assured my Department remains committed to working with the council to sustain the benefits being achieved through the implementation of projects under the regeneration programme. This offers a positive way forward for Limerick City and County Council. It is important the proposals it will bring forward for 2024 are submitted to our Department for review. It is critically important for the continuum of these programmes and projects. The Senator spoke about staff members being at risk. It is critically important the local authority is proactive and brings forward proposals for review by my Department.

Senator Paul Gavan

I was pleased to see a key line in the Minister of State's response, which frankly has not been confirmed to any of these groups to date, which is that the Department has agreed to continue funding for ESIF for 2024. This is a very welcome announcement.

What I cannot understand, and perhaps we may be at one on this, is why those working on these key projects are being told by the council to give protective notice to their employees. I need to understand better what has happened here. As I pointed out earlier, we have had ten years to prepare for this end of funding and to put new funding in place.

My request of the Minister of State is for more information as to when he put in this request to the council for the strategic plans to be submitted and how long he has been waiting for a response. He might also say something about funding beyond 2024. I would hate to think we were in a situation where, every 12 months, we are going to go through this real concern about the future funding of projects and the future of the staff and communities involved.

Deputy Malcolm Noonan

Those are questions we can come back to the Senator on. Certainly, all parties were aware of the end date of 2023. It was critical for future planning that Limerick City and County Council would begin the process of engagement and consultation around the continuum of support for the very valuable initiatives the Senator has spoken about, notwithstanding the fact there are staff affected by this. Our Department has allocated €50 million from the 2024 Vote to fund the national regeneration programme, which includes the economic and social intervention fund. The fund is there, and it is very important that Limerick City and County Council brings forward these plans. We are reaching the end of 2023. It is important that the council submits its plans to the Department. If there is any additional support or information that the Senator requires, we can pass that on to him through the Department in the context of what is required. However, it is critical that the local authority brings forward those proposals as soon as possible.

Acting Chairperson (Senator Martin Conway)

I thank the Minister of State for his time this afternoon. I know how busy he is. I commend Senator Gavan on putting down this matter. As I am from a neighbouring county, I know the great work that has already been done on regeneration in Limerick. The people involved are outstanding. That clarity is welcome and, hopefully, this matter can be resolved.

Cuireadh an Seanad ar fionraí ar 1.57 p.m. agus cuireadh tús leis arís ar 2.30 p.m.

Sitting suspended at 1.57 p.m. and resumed at 2.30 p.m.