This section addresses the issue to which Deputy McCormack referred — new penalties for the illegal sale or handling of unstamped tobacco products. The Deputy is probably aware that tobacco products are now stamped. Following consultations with the Revenue Commissioners and the Garda a number of changes were sought by all concerned and we are giving effect to them in this legislation to ensure there are better and more effective powers between the various authorities to avoid what is now a very substantial abuse in parts of the country.
SECTION 61.
Question proposed: "That section 61 stand part of the Bill."
We should consider going further than that. The summary convictions, which are the only ones that are likely to apply, seem to be potentially lenient. While there is provision for a 12 months' prison sentence, a mandatory prison sentence should given for a second or subsequent offence. If an offender has been caught once and gets off, it should be made clear that a second or subsequent offence carries a mandatory jail sentence to ensure that such offenders do not continue to trade in these products. When these offenders are summons by police, they hold the view that everything will be all right on the day. Now is the time to show some teeth on this issue.
Will the implementation of the provisions in this section lead to the end of the illegal sale of cigarettes on the street? This point was approached by Deputy McDowell from a slightly different angle. The illegal sale of cigarettes on the street and the cheap price at which they can be sold in some cases has the effect of introducing many young people to the habit of cigarette smoking. This amendment should strengthen the section sufficiently to take those traders who openly flout this illegal trade off the streets. I support this amendment if the Minister is satisfied it will have that effect.
These changes in the law followed consultation with the Garda, the Revenue Commissioners, Customs and Excise personnel and our Department and were made with the assistance of the Attorney General's office. I am interested in the comment made by Deputy McDowell because of his professional experience and his view that a mandatory sentence after a second conviction would have merit and would not be regarded in a negative way by the courts. I am told judges do not like the concept of mandatory sentencing.
Alternatively, it could be provided that a second or subsequent offence would carry a mandatory sentence unless a judge certified in the particular circumstances of a case that it would be unjust. A garda may take the name of a person illegally selling a product or a customs and excise officer may take the product, but the next day that person is selling a similar product on the street.
There must be a stronger deterrent.
Such offenders are not put into jail pending trial. Their names and addresses are taken and they are released that evening. If such illegal trade is their way of life, they will continue with that trade.
In light of what the Deputy has said and having regard to his legal expertise and experience, I am open to considering this matter on Report Stage. We share a common objective in this regard. I am open to considering anything that will made this section more effective.
It should be an offence to purchase such products. The Minister should be frightening people off from buying them. Many people believe it is an offence for such traders to sell cigarettes, but that it is okay for the customer to flash a packet around the pub.
A Deputy
The same applies to the sale of tickets outside Croke Park.
We will have to take a rain check on this. I am not averse to considering that suggestion.
If we are serious about addressing this problem, we should consider it.
The Deputy should not give a lecture on the freedom of a liberal society, as pronounced and proposed by the Progressive Democrats, in respect of this.
The purchase of goods that have not come through customs, particularly cigarettes, is not much of a civil liberty.
The Deputy has made an interesting observation. We will reflect on it and come back to it on Report Stage. We have a common objective to stamp out illegal trading because we know it is hurting our revenue.
Question put and agreed to.
Sections 62 and 63 agreed to.