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SELECT COMMITTEE ON JOBS, SOCIAL PROTECTION AND EDUCATION (Select Sub-Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation) díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 15 May 2012

Vote 26 - Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation (Revised)

The select sub-committee is in public session to discuss the 2012 Revised Estimates for public services for the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation. I welcome the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Richard Bruton, the Minister of State with responsibility for research and innovation, Deputy Seán Sherlock, and the Minister of State with responsibility for small business, Deputy John Perry. I also welcome the officials of the Department who are attending for the briefing and appreciate their making the journey.

As members are probably aware, today we have a new format for the Estimates. The 2012 Revised Estimates were presented to the Dáil in a new format, whereby estimated expenditure is structured into strategic programmes which correspond closely with the high-level goal set out in the Department's strategic statement. The resources consumed by each strategic programme, financial inputs as well as staff and other administrative costs, are shown alongside each programme. The Revised Estimates also include supplementary performance information regarding outputs and the impact of the programme expenditure.

Today's meeting on the Revised Estimates gives us an opportunity to review the progress made to date, the targets set and the resources made available for each programme. Members are aware we are empowered only to consider the Estimates and cannot alter, amend or vote on them. However, this discussion will be useful to us when we seek to engage again with Ministers in July to discuss our views on funds for 2013. Under the move to try to have whole-year budgets I hope we will have a chance to discuss the budget for 2013 in July, well in advance of its formation, and that members can offer their views on it. At today's meeting it is useful to use the new format which will leave us in a better place to offer useful input in July.

I circulated a timetable for the meeting which proposes that we allow an opening statement by the Minister, and the Ministers of State, if they so wish, followed by a discussion on the 2012 Revised Estimates in the form of questions and answers on each programme listed in the Estimates. There is also time at the start for opening statements from each spokesperson from the Department, if they so wish. At the last meeting on Estimates for the Department of Education and Skills, we took the decision not to bother with that step and to confine matters to questions and answers, but today that is up to the officials. I have no problem with it. I call on the Minister to give his opening statement.

For clarification, if the Minister of State, Deputy Sherlock, wished to make some opening comments on the innovation section, for example, or the Minister of State, Deputy Perry, on his brief, could that be done later in the meeting? I might then make one initial opening statement.

That is fine.

I thank the Chairman for inviting me to attend to deal with the Estimates for our Department. As he knows, during the course of the year, the employment challenge has become the central theme of what we are about. We published an action plan for jobs which is, to a large extent, a unifying project across most of the work we do in our Department. The economy is going through a very difficult transformation, as we all know, and building long-term sustainable enterprises is the core of what we must do. We must do everything to make that possible. The action plan for jobs sets out what I believe are bold but realistic ambitions. One is to have net expansion in employment of 100,000 by 2016. The other is one to which the Taoiseach is particularly committed, namely, to make Ireland the best small country in which to do business by 2016. Those are no mean challenges for Government, not only in our Department but right across the spectrum.

Most Deputies were present when we debated the action plan for jobs in the Dáil but it is worth noting it is different in that it is joined up across all of government. It is not just one Department asking what is to be done about enterprise and then looking to the "enterprise Department". What happens in the Departments of the Environment, Community and Local Government and Health is just as relevant. Many different Departments can have a role in creating a vibrant medical devices sector or a strong alternative energy sector, or whatever. There are significant employment opportunities to be created where government works together and this plan seeks to get government to do that. In addition, let us be honest, in a time of scarce resources it enlists the broadest possible support, looking to the chambers of commerce, the unions and others to support and promote schemes that are available and get take-up on them in order to help projects get off the ground.

The other innovation in the plan is that there are timelines for every action. People are held accountable by the Taoiseach. This is a rigorous process, not a casual process. Even in the short life of it, it has made a significant impact in getting decisions across the line on time and, therefore, it is important.

The third dimension that is different about this is it is a learning process. We had an action plan for 2012 and I acknowledge people will ask why it did not do this or that but there will be action plans in 2013 and 2014. I am actively engaged meeting groups in different sectors across the country to learn from them where the shoe is pinching and what government can do better. That is an important dimension of the plan. Its themes reflect what it will take to ensure a strong enterprise sector in the economy and to make it easier to start up and succeed in business. The Minister of State, Deputy Perry, is very much at the heart of that dealing with start-ups and small business, the regulatory environment, prompt payments and one-stop-shops that deliver to small businesses and start-ups.

The second of five themes is lifting the performance of indigenous companies and the Minister of State, Deputy Sherlock, is very much at the core of that. We are working on how we get them to be more innovative; how we roll out the investment we have made in research and development capacity in our universities to business; how we create development capital funds that will allow companies to grow to scale instead of being bought out as they grow; and how we will deliver loan guarantees to companies that cannot access credit.

The third theme is deepening the impact of multinational companies. We need to always think afresh. One of our key strengths as a nation is the fact that we have strong clusters in many sectors, including ICT, medical devices and pharmaceuticals. There are strong multinational companies at the core of these sectors but, in the foothills, there are also many strong indigenous companies. The challenge for us is to deepen that connection, to get more indigenous companies into the supply chains of multinationals and to enhance the connection between multinationals and the research investment we have made in our higher education institutions. Almost half of foreign direct investment, FDI, relates to research and development and it is vital that we align the research and development effort to that challenge.

The fourth theme is looking to the sectors of the future, which will be an ongoing challenge over the years. The action plan for jobs has identified some sectors and what we can do about them in the short term but we need to think continually and draw in support from across government for the development of sectors where we have opportunities. Tourism is clearly one. The Government took a number of steps last year, which have had an impact. The tourism figures are good but there are many sectors and we need to be strategic about selecting them and making sure we deliver in them.

The final theme is competitiveness which has many dimensions. There is cost competitiveness but there is also the issue of the regulatory support and systems in place.

I am pleased to report that, following the first quarter, we delivered 96% of the actions we said we would and we still need to get three across the line. We have had a good year in the context of FDI and we can reflect on that as we go through the programmes. This year, as the Chairman said, we presented the Estimates in a new way. Having spent most of my political life on the Opposition benches, I know this is a major improvement. We are not only outlining the money we spend in each area but also the numbers of people involved, the activity levels, the impact indicators and the outcomes we are achieving. Some are showing good results but others can be challenged by the Opposition. It is important that members have an opportunity to challenge. Under the enterprise subhead, the figures were good for FDI and the IDA, with the best performance in more than a decade. We succeeded in stabilising employment and we exceeded expectations in some areas. For example, the number of high-potential start-ups was higher than we targeted but, in other areas, we did not do quite as well. Export performance continues to do well and it exceeds the growth of any other sector of the economy. Overall, across all the agencies, we have expanded employment over the past 12 months. There are approximately 5,000 more people at work in agency supported companies than this time last year.

Deputy Sherlock will deal with the second theme later but members will see from the Estimate that we have worked on the prioritisation of the research spend to try to get the best bang for our buck and to try to get more companies involved. The output indicators show that this year, approximately 1,200 companies were involved in one way or another with the research activities of our colleges either through the EI or SFI programmes.

The third theme is regulation. Perhaps it is less glamorous but it is hugely important when it comes to the challenge of being competitive. We need stronger competition in many markets and we need an effective Competition Authority. We have debated the strengthening of sanctions in the Dáil. I have announced that I am extending the strength of the authority to give it more effectiveness in delivering necessary enforcement and I have asked its officials to examine sectors where there is a need for studies to improve competitiveness. We are working on what we hope will be the best in class set of companies legislation. The legislation has 2,500 elements and it will come before the House.

It would be more interesting to hear what members have to say and to reflect on questions and seek to learn from their experience.

We have three programmes to address and, therefore, it is up to members to take one programme at a time followed by questions or take them all together.

We will take one at a time.

I welcome the Ministers and their officials and I thank the Minister for his presentation. I noticed the funding for EI has increased by €19 million. While that is welcome, funding for the IDA has reduced by €12 million and funding for county enterprise boards has reduced by €3.5 million. It is, therefore, an "as you were" situation. I welcome the new format for the Estimate. I do not wish to be unduly critical, as I realise we are only starting down this road and it represents a considerable improvement on what went before. I recall asking the Minister in the House, given he was not substantially increasing the resources of the development agencies, how they would magically improve their performance and he indicated that there would be a different way of doing things. That has not been borne out by the figures. For example, I refer to the IDA's output last year as opposed to what is projected this year. Last year, it approved 148 investment projects while this year, it is expected to approve 144. The only difference is that 50% of them will be located outside Dublin and Cork as opposed to 28% last year, which I welcome. Last year, €700 million was spent on new research and development and innovation projects while this year's figure is estimated to be only €500 million. In addition, SFADCO was supposed to approve investments totalling €3 million last year but it will only be €2.5 million this year, although it is on the verge of extinction as an industrial agency. There are a number of repetitive paragraphs. Some of them repeat each other word for word with some in the past tense and others in the present tense. There are words like "co-ordinate", "prepare", "develop", "oversee" and even more vague words like "reflect" and "promote". It is difficult at the end of the year to judge whether an agency has reflected or promoted something. I presume agencies will oversee whatever it is they are supposed to oversee. Nevertheless I welcome the new format and I am merely pointing out that it could be improved, which I am sure will happen as we proceed.

I understand that the IDA attracted 13,000 jobs and lost 7,000 in 2011, for a net gain of approximately 6,000. Can the Minister indicate the figures for 2012? A total of 61 companies were attracted by the IDA last year, which was an increase of 30% on the previous figure. However, only five of these new companies come from BRIC countries. What is the likely position this year in terms of new companies attracted here for the first time and in terms of focusing on the BRIC companies?

One third of the 61 companies that invested in Ireland for the first time in 2011 were emerging firms with turnover of €20 million or less. Apparently this is part of the IDA's strategy to target venture capital backed companies at an early stage of development. Can the Minister outline the likely position this year in this regard?

The jobs lost in Enterprise Ireland supported operations last year were equal to the number brought in. I understand no jobs were gained in net terms. What does the Minister forecast for this year? In 2011 the agency supported 93 new high potential start-up projects. How many jobs have these companies created and how many projects are expected to be supported this year? It also approved 700 innovation vouchers worth €5,000 each to help SMEs undertake research at universities and institutes of technologies. What is the projected position in this regard for 2012? It supported 55 emerging start-up under the competitive start-up fund in 2011. How many does it envisage supporting this year and what sort of job content is involved? Perhaps the Minister could also address the mentor issue. Is it correct that Enterprise Ireland has approximately 300 mentors? Does it plan to increase or decrease this number?

Finally, I ask the Minister to indicate the current position regarding the proposed reorganisation of the city and county enterprise boards.

Cuirim fáilte roimh na struchtúir new. The Minister set out his views on job creation. My party believes the jobs issue is the biggest problem facing Irish society at present. However, we differ from the Government in that the latter does not put additional moneys behind its plans, whereas we suggest that an investment of €13 billion will be required over the next three years. This money would come from the National Pensions Reserve Fund, the European Investment Bank, NAMA and the private pension industry and would be invested in projects that can create jobs and improve competitiveness through retrofitting, wind energy, broadband provision and water services. We have been making this argument for the past four years and it is finally gaining traction throughout Europe as people realise the necessity of Government-led investment for job creation.

This is my first occasion to examine these documents in this format. I imagine we will begin with the jobs and enterprise development sections. Vote A3, which deals with Forfás, apparently indicates that the agency underspent its budget by €12 million. The pay bill for Forfás is twice that of the IDA or the county enterprise budget. It is logical that investment would go directly into job creation, however. I do not doubt Forfás provides immense value but what is its key performance indicator for jobs? Vote A7 indicates that Enterprise Ireland also underspent on its budget.

Section 1 of the document on programme A, jobs and enterprise development, reports that 17 Minister-led Enterprise Ireland trade missions took place in 2011, compared to 15 in 2012. SFADCO approved five investment projects totalling €3 million in 2011. The amount for 2012 decreased to €2.5 million. Section 2 reports that seven investment projects drew down €5.5 million in 2011, whereas 13 investment projects drew down €6 million in 2012. Funding increased slightly but it had to be divided among a larger number of projects. What is the strategic thinking behind that expansion? Section 4 reports that the target of processing 100% of export licence applications was met. Is consideration being given a higher-level target in terms of generating an increase in the number of licence applications?

The Government has been congratulated for its success in attracting FDI. The increase of 50% in the competitiveness of the State has helped but in many ways FDI continues to operate as an enclave in Ireland when compared to other states. Approximately 85% of the inputs in FDI in this State accompany the firms from outside the State rather than being properly embedded in the local economy.

Would it be possible in future to relate the value of exports and merchandise to the local economy? A figure is provided for total direct expenditure in the Irish economy. I ask for a breakdown of that figure rather than putting IDA, Enterprise Ireland and SFADCO into the same box. We would be able to arrive at a clearer measure of their activities if they were separate.

In regard to the figure for FDI inward stock as a percentage of GDP, what is the indicator for the domestic economy? It would be great to get an understanding of the impact on the domestic economy from the section on impact indicators.

I welcome the Minister and his colleagues. The boss of Glen Dimplex gave an interesting presentation to a packed meeting of this committee on the topic of youth unemployment. He outlined an overall view of various economies in Europe and Asia. What struck a chord with me was his complaint about Ireland's neglect of its industrial base. He was quite specific about this neglect in comparison to Germany. He also complained about the neglect of technical subjects that underpin it, such as metalwork, woodwork, mechanical drawing, art and design. He referred to the heavy investment in the dual system of education in Germany. Perhaps the Minister will make some comment on this.

Regarding youth unemployment activation measures, which the committee is examining even though it is not the responsibility of Deputy Bruton, we must look at innovative activation measures. The Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Burton, has begun to consider this. I am submitting ideas to the Minister in order to enable young people to put new structures and direction on the lives in communities where highs level of unemployment cause major personal, social and community damage.

Subhead A7 shows an underspend by Enterprise Ireland of €23 million on capital projects in 2011. Was the money diverted elsewhere and what was it spent on? In subhead A8, funding for county and city enterprise boards will be reduced by 12% in 2012. How does this fit with the objectives in the Action Plan for Jobs with regard to encouraging entrepreneurship? Are alternative forms of support proposed to assist people who need enterprise support?

Subhead 5 relates to the substantial investment made by the Department in the designation of Dublin as a city of science in 2012. The centrepiece of this is a major Euroscience Open Forum, ESOF, conference in July. What portion of the €1.5 million allocated will be spent on outreach activity in schools and to promote science as a career path?

We are dealing with the first programme and Deputy Conaghan has moved on to the second set of questions. We will deal with the first set of questions.

There is a huge range of questions and I hope I can do justice to them. Deputy O'Dea raised a number of issues about targets and spending in respect of the IDA, Enterprise Ireland and SFADCo. Each case has different explanations. The spending of the IDA was higher than its initial allocation, which reflects its success. There is a property repayment in 2012 and part of the figures reflect movements in the organisation's resources. The IDA and the other agencies have access to their own resources. In the case of Enterprise Ireland, there was a timing delay that resulted in a lower drawdown in respect of the innovation fund and venture capital fund. Establishment was slower and so the drawdown was slower. There were fewer claims and also some returns on equity investments. A number of things are happening in each case, reflecting the movement on capital. All of the schemes are demand-led and depend on the number of projects that come forward for support. We make an allocation but have an arrangement whereby unspent resources can be carried forward.

Deputy O'Dea asked whether the IDA target of 144 investment projects was not ambitious compared to the previous achievement. The sum of 148 was an exceptional achievement and well ahead of the target. We have not pulled the peg to a new level just because the agency did very well in one year. We have held the target. Deputy O'Dea asked a similar question in respect of high potential start-ups, HPSU. The achievement was not 93, as he suggested, but the target was 85 and then we set a new target of 95. The momentum created will be continued.

Overall, there was a net increase of 4,256 jobs across all agencies and the bulk of the expansion occurred in IDA companies. Enterprise Ireland and the other agencies held their own but the significant expansion was in the IDA. We have targets for different agencies in 2012 and some of them are set out in the programme documents. The 2011 output for Enterprise Ireland grant-aided new jobs was 4,500 to 5,000 and next year it will approve 6,000 to 7,000 grant-aided new jobs. From memory, the figure of 144 investment projects is equivalent to 12,500 new jobs so the targets reflect the fact that this will be slightly below this year's outturn, which is exceptional. Enterprise Ireland has a substantial increase, from 1,500 to 2,000, on its target of last year.

The Deputy correctly raises the issue of the success to date of the IDA in BRIC countries. It reflects the fact that these are long-term investments. Some 90% of growth in trade will occur outside the European Union and one expects foreign direct investment over time will reflect the shift away from Europe. The IDA has created centres in the BRIC countries, as has Enterprise Ireland but at this stage they are not delivering. Comparing the Enterprise Ireland person working in India with an Enterprise Ireland person working in France and Germany where there are established markets, it looks as if it is not as good an outturn. However, if we want to break into these new markets, we must lay down a new approach. What is different in these markets is that we employ people from the country. The Enterprise Ireland centre is substantially manned by people from the region. Reflecting new opportunities, the agencies are investing and time will show our capacity to deliver a better flow of projects and trade. Everyone recognises that these are growth sectors and we need to develop them.

From my work with the IDA, I know there is an increasing emphasis on smaller companies that are dynamic in their sectors. We do not have a disaggregated target for 2012 but I expect such companies will figure at least as prominently. It is a dynamic sector. We do not set net targets because we do not have control over it. In terms of the global strategy, we are setting a net target of 100,000. Regarding the redemption of innovation vouchers, this year was exceptional. Some 400 were targeted and 518 were redeemed. We have set a target of 450 for what seems to be a successful scheme. The competitive start programme involves support for 60 companies.

Last year, the figure was 55.

The Deputy is correct. The figure this year is 60. I do not have the figure for mentors to hand, but I will seek it for the Deputy. When I revert to the county enterprise board, CEB, issue, I will ask the Minister of State, Deputy Perry, to contribute.

I will address some of Deputy Tóibín's points. The underspend by Forfás reflects pension issues. The 2012 Estimates are lower than the 2011 Estimates. Increases on the 2011 outturn relate to increased pension costs arising from an underspend on the 2011 allocation, as a number of anticipated retirements for 2011 were deferred into 2012. The bulk of Forfás's spend is on pensions across all of the agencies rather than just in respect of itself. It is the employer of Enterprise Ireland and IDA staff. It had a role.

It was the other agencies' human resources department.

The pay bill for the IDA is not-----

The pensions part is in Forfás's Estimate. Forfás is essentially a policy-oriented body. Hence, key performance indicators, KPIs, are not measured in job numbers. Forfás was central in helping the Department to prepare its action plan for jobs, prepare the report of the National Competitiveness Council, NCC, and review the science budgets. Much of its work involves providing the Department and the wider agencies with intelligence and research on economic conditions. I mentioned the source of the underspend.

The nominal figure in respect of trade missions has decreased, but the actual figure will run ahead of the 15 missions contained in the Estimate. I will need to revert to the Deputy with the exact figure. The number was to be less initially, but it has been bumped up since then. It was 17 last year.

The explanation for the figure for the Shannon Free Airport Development Company, SFADCo, is that the amount allocated in each case and the number of projects involved reflect the size of the projects.

Export licences are for types of goods that need special licensing because of their toxic nature and so on. We do not generate them.

For this year, the target for trade missions is 20. Seven have been completed to date. It is an increase on the initial figure.

My understanding is that export licences are for goods that need special licensing, for example, dual-use products. A dual-use product with a defence use would need an explicit licence, given our international commitments. It is not a policy tool to promote trade. It is legitimate to trade under licence, but we respond to industry's needs and do not use it as a promotional tool.

The Deputy was right, in that this document needs to contain more information on the allocation of purchases. As foreign direct investment, FDI, has developed, there has been a decline in the purchase of goods or inputs and a rise in the purchase of services. On the indigenous front, the level of input remains high. This reflects the fact that a large part of our indigenous industry is food-based or uses agricultural goods. It is not fair to compare the two sectors and point to how the inputs on the indigenous side are 40% but only 10% on the export side. Figures of this nature are not comparable, given the sectors involved. We have a number of foreign-owned food companies, but a high concentration of indigenous companies are predominantly in traditional sectors and source materials within the country. Many FDI companies are service-oriented, for example, financial services, ICT, medical devices, etc. Given the nature of their sector, they will not have as great a linkage in terms of goods purchases. We are seeking to develop the inclusion of indigenous companies in their supply chains, for example, in the medical devices sector, which has been successful and accounts for a large number of workers. Our indigenous software sector is larger than the multinational software sector. The companies involved have low levels of input purchases, but they have high levels of service purchases, be it a financial service, accountancy service, etc. One must examine each sector to get a picture of its impact on the economy.

The Deputy is correct, in that one of the objectives of public policy must be to deepen the impact of such companies. I stated this at the outset. Where an indigenous company has access to a multinational's Irish supply chain, we are seeking greater access to its supply chains in other markets. We are trying to deepen companies' impacts. Some sectors are more successful in representing clusters than others.

Deputy Conaghan's point has also been articulated by the chief executive of Glen Dimplex, Mr. O'Driscoll. It is undeniably right. Our courtship with the construction sector did a great deal of damage to traditional industrial skills. Apprenticeships in Ireland have predominantly been in the building trades, not in manufacturing. By contrast, Germany has better established apprenticeships within its industrial base. This has not been the pattern in Ireland and we are paying for it now. Some sectors are straining to develop because of a lack of skilled manpower. One of the challenges for the Government is to get SOLAS and the Higher Education Authority, HEA, more engaged with the needs of sectors that will be the sectors for the future. We have seen some good results. This year, the Department of Education and Skills has set out a plan to develop the number of ICT students through short-term placements and long-term course deployments.

I will ask the Minister of State to discuss CEBs and small businesses. Our approach is the best way to deliver a one-stop-shop for small businesses. It engages with local authorities and sets up a small business division within Enterprise Ireland for the first time. To this end, we are setting up an implementation group. Perhaps the Minister of State might like to comment on small businesses.

I thank the Minister. The small business sector is important. The role of CEBs is critical. A question was asked about the decrease in the relevant subhead. This is due to ongoing efficiencies in public sector staffing. The subhead's capital allocation has been maintained at €15 million. Should additional funding become available in the Department during the year, full consideration will be given to topping up that allocation.

The Minister correctly referred to the significant level of collaboration with Enterprise Ireland and to the potential roll-out of a one-stop-shop for business. Given the fact that 200,000 companies employ 700,000 people, the one-stop-shop will play a vital role in terms of mentoring and advising on bank applications, how to access finance and how to address difficulties that are critical for micro-companies. Large companies do not face the same challenges as small ones, given economies of scale and so on. Small companies are usually dealt with by Enterprise Ireland. In collaboration with third level institutions, Enterprise Ireland works with high potential start-up companies. We are acutely aware of the importance of Enterprise Ireland's important work in terms of the critical services it mentors. It also provides financial interventions, creates local enterprise awareness and develops an enterprise culture.

The availability of funding for small companies is limited and even though enterprise vouchers are coming through Enterprise Ireland, there are huge difficulties but the one-stop-shop will provide an opportunity to have a centralisation of services which will involve local government. We are working on this at present. The action plan for jobs recently proved to be a radical and forward thinking overhaul of the current national enterprise support model. Central to this new premium model will be the development of a one-stop-shop facility for small businesses at local level - a new front door to a more embedded culture of entrepreneurship across the country. The new one-stop-shop will be known as the local enterprise office and will be situated in the local authority. It will incorporate the successful county enterprise model of supporting enterprise but with the additionality of the enhanced role of Enterprise Ireland and the local authorities working effectively, under the guidance of Enterprise Ireland, on developing the potential of companies to grow. The aim of the new model is to ensure that there is a seamless system of support for indigenous enterprise and as positive an environment for entrepreneurship as possible in terms of access. People are concerned to ensure that the volume of red tap is cut, that doing business is simplified and they are also concerned about the licensing and regulation of business. I chair the high level group on business regulation. We are very much looking at the area of making it simpler for people to establish a business. When one considers the stacked up cost of government by local authorities, having them involved in this one-stop-shop facility will certainly help.

A good deal of work has been done to develop this model and all parties are working to effectively achieve a common goal. In the meantime I assure everyone here that the county and city enterprise boards will remain fully open for business and that they have a wide range of supports, which have been very effective. I have toured the country and seen them in operation. Their level of interaction, in terms of mentoring supports and advice, is very effective. While it may not be a cheque, such supports are effective.

The capital funding for the county enterprise boards in 2012 has been retained at the 2011 level of €15 million and this is indicative of the Government's commitment to the microenterprise sector in Ireland. The county enterprise boards proactively managed their budget allocations throughout the year. With the central co-ordination unit, there may be an overriding demand in one area while funds may not be drawn down in other areas. Such considerations may be one of the reasons there may not be a full draw down of funds.

The central co-ordination unit, in conjunction with the county enterprise boards, is working on the preparation of an in-depth, mid-year review of spend and commitments, which is currently under way. The purpose of this exercise is to identity any significant pressure points at individual county enterprise boards, which can happen. Overall, I am very encouraged by the commitment of the personnel within the structure. Radical proposals will be coming forward, which will bring about change in terms of the one-stop-shop facility, about which the Minister, Deputy Bruton, has spoken. It will certainly enhance the service. The €15 million capital budget is ring-fenced and if there is a demand for further funding, the Minister, Deputy Bruton, will be quite supportive of that.

I note Deputy O'Dea is offering and I take it his question is on the programme we are discussing.

Specifically on what the Minister of State was talking about, I am trying to ascertain when these one-stop-shops will be in operation. First, when approximately is it envisaged that the county enterprise boards will close and the one-stop-shops will come into operation? Second, how will they be staffed? They will comprise the existing staff but what additional staff will they have? Third, on what the Minister said on the funding for the county enterprise boards, €15 million in capital funding was estimated to be provided in 2011 but the outturn was €18.135 million. The provision for 2012 is again only €15 million on the capital side, which I take to be the grants. That is a very substantial reduction.

That €18 million-----

Before the Minister of State replies I will take a question from Deputy Tóibín.

Deputy O'Dea made a valid point. Many of us will know county enterprise boards that have run out of funding half way through the year. All of us will know of individual enterprises that would have been told there was no money available for them. With regard to the changes in the system, how will outputs from the county enterprise boards in their new format be different from what is in existence? How will the cost structure change? What savings will be made by embedding them with the local authorities? What efforts are being made to change the culture within local authorities to orientate that culture in an enterprise direction? Everybody in this room knows that, traditionally, local authorities would not have had a strong enterprise orientation in the past.

There is a change in the manner in which this management will take place. The few county councils I visited that have the development units have been effective in encouraging enterprise in certain counties. That may not be the case in every county but there will be a co-ordination of services.

On Deputy O'Dea's point as to when this change will take place, legislation is pending and work on it is under way but it will not diminish the current role of the boards. No company has been refused support to date. Many companies have decommitted themselves in terms of funding. The €3.5 million that was allocated previously was a top-up. In terms of the co-ordination unit, I spoke about the scenario of demand arising for additional funding later on for genuine projects. If one notes the number of companies that have been assisted by the enterprise boards to date, the cost involved of the jobs that have been created represents extraordinary value for money. The number of grants approved was 1,009, the value of grants approved was €15 million, the number of grants paid out was 1,146, the number of full-time jobs in CEB-assisted companies at the end of 2011 was 32,000 and the number of other jobs in CEB-assisted companies was 12,000. Therefore, they are very effective on the ground. With the centralisation of this service in local government, the best will be taken out of both organisations.

On the issue of the staffing requirement, the county development boards look after the business development within the county from a local authority point of view. It makes huge economic sense to maximise the efficiencies from local government while the remit of enterprise will be very much under the management of the Minister, Deputy Bruton, his Department and Enterprise Ireland to ensure an ethos of enterprise prevails. We are conscious of the fact that there are 200,000 companies in this sector and that is the engine of growth in the country. It does not need to be paid lip-service; what it wants is decisive action. It needs mentoring support. It is not all about giving out money. It is about collaborative support and working with the bank on the business loan, the management of accounts and even from the point of view of such funding providing value for money.

The voluntary input is important also. Many people work in a voluntary capacity on the county enterprise boards. The current staff can remain with the Department or decide to switch to local government. That will be optional in terms of the personnel involved but it will be an enhancement of the service, ensuring that certain exclusions within enterprise boards will be changed and that there will be subsidiarity, with the involvement of more successful business people. There are many successful people in business, law and accountancy who want to give something back to Ireland in a voluntary sense and we intend to tap into that resource. It is all about the involvement of the community, economic regeneration and social enterprise, which is at the heart of every community. In recent years there has been a realisation of social enterprise in the community, and in terms of the voted estimate we also had the community economic companies which are very successful. They will be taken on board. I am optimistic this change will represent value for money. There are great people working in local government, the enterprise boards, the social enterprise area and the community and economic area and we hope we can tap into all of that. Likewise, the two pillar banks have indicated they will offer mentoring supports.

It is a job of work in terms of getting the legislation through the Dáil, which is the intention. The Bill has gone to Cabinet for approval and has been agreed in principle. It is a matter of drafting the legislation and that job is on hand. I hope we will have an announcement on the timeframe as to when this might take place, and I am optimistic it will be by the year end.

We are not leaving it to chance. There will be service level agreements between Enterprise Ireland and the local authority deliverer, so they will have to shape up to the standards. We recognise this is a challenge to local authorities to become more enterprise-orientated but we also recognise, as the Minister of State, Deputy Sherlock said, that local government has big capacity to be part of the solution to the enterprise challenge in its area as opposed to being part of the problem, as the Deputy is slightly inferring. That is the challenge. We will be looking not just at the delivery of grant support, we will also be rating local authorities as to their performance across other business supports, for example, how easy it is to get a licence, how quick they are to respond and whether they are innovative in terms of relief for new start-ups. We will be trying to encourage into the system new ways of supporting business in the local authority area. We are hoping it is a two-way process that is win-win.

Westmeath County Council had a very innovative idea whereby it gave a unit in Mullingar worth €12,000 to a new start-up company, and there are many ideas with regard to water charges and rate charges. Where there are vacant units, local government has a level of autonomy to encourage enterprise. Units are vacant in many towns and villages and to have a one-stop shop with enterprise at its core is a way to get people back to work and promote the revitalisation of towns and villages at local level. Local government has a huge role to play with regard to start-up costs, including the operational costs of business that would be levied by local government. On the role of Enterprise Ireland, the new mandate given by the service level agreements with local government will be a very effective tool, as will the involvement of social enterprise and community economic regeneration. I am optimistic in this regard. The details will be clearly drafted in legislation.

I compliment the current structure and acknowledge the value for money we are receiving. The capital budget that is in place is being used very effectively and, in fact, has been topped up in the past two years. The demand is there and no company has been refused based on satisfying the proper criteria for a grant application.

The Minister is correct. The county enterprise boards have worked very well and represent the best value for money if one takes the cost of a job produced by them when compared to the other two bigger agencies. My inclination is not to change a winning formula unless it is replaced by something better. My question is whether the staffing level for the new one-stop shops will be the same as the level in the current county enterprise boards.

We will be utilising the staff that are there. To take the case of Sligo as an example, the unit is currently very tightly staffed and runs a very efficient staffing arrangement. Following amalgamation with Sligo County Council, the people working on the enterprise desk will be working with them, so that will enhance the staff.

What about current staffing?

The mandate of the existing staff working within local government will be a matter of the collaboration of the staff who are there. This will enhance the service. There will be involvement from local authority members, which will be important and will give it a far greater voice at the front of house within local government. It will provide a one-stop shop for businesses whereby - without necessarily giving out money - mentoring advice, IT supports and so on can be provided through an advice clinic or solution desk. The one-stop shop may not have all the answers but it can advise people on what to do to get the answer. Most business people would react to that favourably enough.

To confirm, there will be members of the local authority whose role will be, as the Minister of State said, to orientate themselves towards enterprise development, which is the role of the county enterprise boards at present. Some individuals who are currently working within the local authorities will find some part of their role will be the same as the county enterprise development board.

The staff within the business support units, which are in every local authority at present, will be working within local government and will have an enhanced role under the mandate of Enterprise Ireland, with a very clear service level agreement that will clearly focus-----

There will be a cost to that because if some staff within a local authority at present are having their roles changed to be more enterprise orientated, some of their existing roles will have to be reduced. Is that correct?

We will look at the roles of the business support units within every local authority. Given their terms of reference, this will develop their current role with the expertise of Enterprise Ireland. There is a very clear mandate for business support in every local authority, which will be enhanced by the service level agreement with Enterprise Ireland. This will complement them and maximise the levels specified in their contracts rather than change this in any sense.

We move to questions on the programme for innovation. I call Deputy O'Dea.

Perhaps the Minister of State, Deputy Sherlock, would like to begin.

Deputy Michael Conaghan took the Chair.

In the 12 months since the last Estimates process, we have been engaged in the research prioritisation exercise that was chaired by Mr. Jim O'Hara, formerly of Intel. We have quite literally stripped down the areas of prioritisation into 14 specific areas. While I do not believe I need to outline what those areas are, they vary from future networks in communications to innovation in services and business processes. What we have been seeking to do in the past 12 months is to move into a space whereby there is a closer alignment between academia, through the research component, and industry in order that we can move a new metric into the fray, namely, the effective creation of jobs. That is what has been informing Government policy in this period.

That research prioritisation exercise has given rise to another exercise, the prioritisation action group, which will be chaired by myself. Its purpose is to look at the 14 areas of focus in the research prioritisation exercise and to drive an agenda to find how we can get that alignment between research and industry in a way that creates the jobs while also seeking to get more accurate measurement of the impact of research, for example, with regard to analysing the spend for research and innovation across various programmes and how we can drive new enterprises and jobs arising from that. That process is ongoing as we speak. It is an interdepartmental approach involving all of the funding agencies for research, such as HEA, SFI, Enterprise Ireland and so on. The group has met twice and is looking at the various themes. We have already looked at medical devices and food for health and we are now moving into sustainable food production and processing. We will move through each of the themes individually.

We are also moving to create an intellectual property protocol so there is a standardisation across all of the higher education institutes. If we are creating intellectual property through the higher education system, we need to ensure everybody is singing from the same hymn sheet and there is a clear understanding, because of the various cultures that exist between different academic institutions, of what intellectual property is and how it is mined for a national usage to create those types of companies, innovations and jobs we need to create. We are on target on the EU programme, framework programme 7. We have drawn down approximately €360 million and our target is approximately €600 million. We are on target to reach that. The next framework is Horizon 2020, which is chaired by our Commissioner, Mrs. Máire Geoghegan-Quinn. We seek to ensure that from the proposed €85 billion spend we can influence how the calls are made. There is significant bilateral engagement ongoing currently and we are hopeful that we will reach a higher target than the €600 million already espoused.

We are also moving to launch the research centres programme. In essence, we are trying to see greater consolidation. We have come from a position where, in the mid 1990s - former Minister, Deputy Martin, rolled out the original programme - we were building capacity through the capital spend and through the programme for research in third level institutions, PRTLI, to now where we are seeking to move the research community with us in a way that ensures that everybody realises we need to create more jobs and that we realise the importance of the FDI infrastructure here. As the Minister, Deputy Bruton, said already, increasingly more of the investment is predicated on the pre-existing research infrastructure. It is no longer just about corporate tax anymore, but as much about one's footprint across research, science, technology, innovation and research and development and innovation. Those metrics and how the Government funds those areas is as important an indicator for inward investment. What we are trying to do is to create a greater indigenous space of the types of companies that we are funding so that we rebalance the ship in a way that creates more sustainable indigenous Irish companies that can compete on a global scale. This is a high level overview of where we are currently.

I am glad to see the Government is working on developing the intellectual property protocol as that is critical. Subhead B6 refers to the programme for research in third level institutions and to a drop of 8%. Is that a significant drop or does it manifest in an increase elsewhere? I also notice that the objective in 2012 is to process 100% of applications for patents, trademarks and industrial designs. I thought we were already able to do that within a 12-month period. The provision for the Patents Office seems to have reduced slightly, by 6%. Is that a textbook example of more for less?

As the Minister of State is aware, with regard to employment in indigenous enterprises, some 91% of employment is accounted for by enterprises of 50 people or fewer. In order to break into new markets and expand operations, product innovation is particularly important. There is no doubt that the current crisis has disproportionately affected the opportunity these companies might have to raise money from product innovation. Where in the innovation programme is the emphasis on dealing with this?

On the last question, there has been an increase in the number of companies that have taken up innovation vouchers through Enterprise Ireland. What we are seeking to do is to continue along that vein, but also to encourage smaller businesses, with 50 people or fewer, to engage more with the research infrastructure. Very often Irish-owned businesses, particularly family businesses, do not move into that space. These businesses are often in the services sector and do not see any need for interfacing with academia. However, if they have a relationship with Enterprise Ireland and are creating new innovations, new intellectual property or new types of services, they will have the opportunity to avail of these innovation vouchers. There were approximately 651 collaborative innovations between industry and third level in 2011, but I do not have the breakdown on these to hand.

On the science, technology and innovation side, the chances are that if businesses in the SME sector have a relationship with Enterprise Ireland and are in the scientific or research related field, they will have a relationship with one of the research entities, either the strategic research clusters or the centres for science, engineering and technology. I hope this addresses the Deputy's point.

Yes. What about the -----

I want to be satisfied the Deputy is okay with that response.

Does the Minister of State expect there will be an increase in the number of innovation vouchers to be granted this year?

There was an increase last year, above the targeted level for 2011. The output target for 2012 is 610, which is lower than the 2011 figure, but towards the end of last year there was a massive increase. We must remember it is a demand-led scheme. With regard to any of the companies employing 50 people or fewer to which I talked, what one seeks to do is to try to encourage them, through Enterprise Ireland, to see whether there is scope within their individual entity for a relationship with the RDI programme, the institutes of technology, UCD, UCC or whatever. The more of those relationships that are established, the more likely we will, through the innovation voucher system, get some sort of a new process or product which will create the jobs we badly need.

On the Patents Office, it was previously included under the administrative subheads, but it now has its own subhead under programme B. The reduction is accounted for by a reduction in pay.

Is the office not processing 100% of patent applications currently?

It should be processing 100% of patents, but forgive me for not having a direct answer. It is a demand led provision, so if demand is down, activity will be down. With regard to the PRTLI, there has been a significant reduction in construction costs on that. As a result of expenditure cutbacks, we have had to make cuts also. Instead of having a pro rata cut across the board, we have removed three structural PhD programmes for 2011 and have deferred them. We will consider them again in the context of the 2013 programme. I have the titles of the three programmes and can supply them to the Deputy later.

We do not always get an interesting response when we ask the Government why it has not identified more high potential start-up units. We are often told the programme is demand-led but demand can be generated through Government activity.

The Minister of State spoke about moving people from the academic world into closer relationships with enterprise. Will he outline the specific technical steps to achieve that objective?

The innovation vouchers are very good in terms of doing what they are meant to do but I often find that when a small firm gets an innovation voucher it outsources the innovation to another organisation and, as little activity takes place within the firm, there is limited cultivation of innovation. The fusion programme developed by Intertrade Ireland, which puts third level science and engineering graduates into firms for 18 months with a view to cultivating innovation systems, is worth considering in this regard. The graduates are often employed directly by the firms concerned when they complete the programme.

Among the planned outputs for 2012 is the creation of three technology centres in strategic areas identified by industry. Where, how and when will this happen and what jobs will be created as a result? Is there an opportunity for the Government to develop third level outreach centres in every city and major provincial town in the State? Navan in County Meath, for example, could have a third level outreach centre under either Dundalk Institute of Technology or NUI Maynooth. Individual businesses could work with the outreach centre to build the relationships to which the Minister of State referred.

In regard to the impact indicator of Government expenditure on research and development as a percentage of GNP, Horizon 2020 sets targets throughout Europe at 3% of GDP. This figure is more difficult for the Government to achieve. In the interest of allowing us to make comparisons, is it possible to generate the expenditure as a percentage of GDP in future?

Further to my previous question, I ask that the figures for share of exports employment by Enterprise Ireland and IDA clients and research and development be broken down between the two organisations in order to give us an understanding of how they are behaving individually. Do the figures for Enterprise Ireland include the county enterprise boards or are they separate? I would like to understand how the boards are constituted within that figure.

Deputy Seán Sherlock

In terms of metrics, measurement of academic output was traditionally based on the number of publications, peer reviewed papers and citations. There is a culture in academia whereby world class research is funded on the basis of excellence. However, while the word "excellence" speaks for itself, it is also a concept within science and the academic world. If one looks at the list of centres for science, engineering and technology and the strategic research clusters one will find a deep collaboration between industry and science. That agenda can be driven by scientists who are enterprise facing or by our large footprint of multinational corporations. The Government works very closely with industry and academia. This is a small country in which relationships allow Ministers the type of access they need to make a positive influence on the programmes that drive companies or an academic agenda. It is a good system and it measures up to international metrics. It ticks the box in terms of excellence. However, we are trying to progress further towards enterprise without compromising the need to ensure a basic scientific infrastructure that provides new generations of scientists with the skills to move into the applied space and create the innovations we need.

We have been successful because the professors who are the principal investigators collaborate directly with industry. Hundreds of companies, including Lucent, IBM, Hewlett Packard, Boston Scientific and GSK, engage with academic researchers on a daily basis. The Government funds agencies such as Science Foundation Ireland, the HEA and the PRTLI because it trusts their ability to act as interface. While we do not seek a paradigm shift, the challenge is to get our scientific community to think about the creation of jobs and new companies. Although we have already created quite a number of companies, we want them to move further into that field.

The object of the prioritisation exercise is to focus on the 14 areas the Government intends to fund in order to concentrate minds. These 14 areas are enterprise facing but they will also bring societal benefits. We cannot lose track of that aspect of scientific endeavour. By imprinting within the calls statements on the impact on enterprise, we can create the type of indigenous companies and closer collaboration we require.

The man or woman who can come up with a metric for every euro we spend will probably get a Nobel prize. Finland is ahead of us in this regard but it still finds this a difficult task. It is probably also difficult to achieve in the US. We have completed an exercise on the PRTLI programme and the return to industry on an engagement of €1.1 billion has been approximately €1.8 billion. That exercise was informed by the experience of industries which collaborated in the programme. One can state whether the impact has been positive but it is difficult to measure it to the last cent. The current phase is about ensuring every scientist or principal investigator who is funded by the State realises that his or her activities must have an economic output.

The Deputy referred to a €13 billion investment programme. I beg the indulgence of the Chair. The Deputy is saying we have €13 billion in the pot to spend on job creation. The Government will fund agencies such as Science Foundation Ireland and move it into the applied space. There will be a legislative change to allow it to do that so there is a closer alignment with Enterprise Ireland. Programmes such as technology innovation development feasibility study, TIDA, and New Frontiers get our researchers moving into the space where they are thinking about creating the indigenous platform we need. That is an expeditious way to spend taxpayers' money. I will not go so far as to call it a stimulus but it is a way to ensure we are training the right kind of researchers so that we can create the right kind of companies. We cannot get an immediate impact but there is a medium to long-term impact. This is linked to my point about funding the basic research and moving people into a framework where they start think about creating more companies from their research. There should be a technology transfer office and we are moving to create a central technology transfer infrastructure, similar to a one-stop shop, so there is a real relationship between the principal investigator and the technology transfer office, TTO, which is trying to mind the intellectual property in a way that creates the companies we need to create to continue to move up the international rankings food chain.

Nine research centres are funded in three technology centres researching food for health, an international energy research centre, bio refining and bioenergy, IT innovation, applied nanotechnology, composite materials, microelectronics and in May we will have a manufacturing, research and energy efficiency centre. Enterprise Ireland will drive these centres. Some 137 multinationals and SMEs were involved with the centres in 2011. That bears out my comment about the interrelationship.

We do not have the jobs figures in response to the question about jobs to be created. A large proportion of international companies are engaged in this process, which ensures the continuing investment of the multinational companies. It also strengthens their base here because we are sending the message to headquarters that embedding them further generates more activity, which leads to job creation. We know that to be the case but we cannot measure the number of jobs that will be created.

Where does the Minister of State reckon the jobs will go? Does he see potential for a third level outreach programme?

In my area, where UCC and CIT are based, it is easy for industry to get access to the institutions. The Rubicon and Nimbus centres are based in CIT and UCC runs the IGNITE programme, which encourages interaction between industry, start-up businesses and the academic institution. It depends on which way one looks at the case of a small business that wants to innovate. A company that wants to innovate and create something new will go to the city or county enterprise board or Enterprise Ireland. Is Deputy Tóibín suggesting the institutes should come out and engage with the business? The creation of a liaison office is very easy. I would be very surprised if there is not someone who interacts with business on a daily basis, through Dundalk IT, in the region Deputy Tóibín is talking about.

Yes, but the pathway to access the facility may not be clear for small businesses. There is an economic benefit to a region by having a resource in the region. This may involve the delivery of technological mentoring or development or training in a particular region. Every urban area with a third level institute benefits but some areas, such as Meath, do not. The development of an outreach campus as part of a one-stop shop will create a pathway for small businesses.

I will allow the Minister of State to provide a short answer before we move on to Deputy Conaghan.

It is a very good idea. Coming from Cork and having an eye to what is happening in the country, I see it in operation throughout the regions on a daily basis. If I understand the Deputy correctly, it is a mechanism through which county enterprise boards can have an eye on what is happening academically. We can explore that and I am prepared to talk to Deputy Tóibín about it. The Department has an open mind on the engagement. If Deputy Tóibín is saying there is a deficit in the Navan and Meath area, we should examine it to see if an improvement can be made. This is an apolitical space so the more ideas we have coming from the committee on making the system more beneficial for users, the better. I freely acknowledge that previous Governments started out on this road and we must give due recognition. I also give due recognition to the visionary people within the Department, who interface with our agencies every day and play the ground hurling on this.

I have been reading about the University of Limerick, which seems to be the leader in terms of campus companies. I saw a report recently that praised the University of Limerick for linking industrial activity and innovation. Perhaps my point is not relevant but the report caught my eye.

The University of Limerick has the Lero software centre, which is a global leader performing world-class research. The Government and SFI have invested €16 million in the Irish Software Engineering Research Centre. The key to such centres is collaboration. Its partners include DCU, Dundalk IT, NUIG, TCD, UCD and UL. There is also an interface with the industry. The SFI CSET award is augmented to the tune of €6.4 million by IBM Ireland, Intel, QAD, Kugler Maag CIE and Movidious. That is the system we are trying to ensure works.

The Irish Software Engineering Research Centre considers themes such as water management, smart cities, transport infrastructure and ensures output will be influenced by academic pursuits, industry and societal needs. I refer to smart cities and the issue of water which is very prevalent. The smart use of water and the application of technological advances to the delivery of water and using Lero, the Irish Software Engineering Research Centre, as an example, there is a societal or beneficial outcome which will ultimately benefit the economy.

If I may comment on Deputy Sherlock's point, the other explanation for the success of the Limerick situation is that it is a relatively new university which was established as an institute of higher education in 1970. It was regarded as a technologically oriented institution right from the beginning and a technology park has developed in the area around the university with a plethora of companies which, in turn, access business in the wider region. Part of the story is how it was developed.

The final group of Votes covers the broad regulatory structure of the Department and the workplace relations area. The policy is to reduce over time the number of agencies from five to two, a first instance and an appellate system. This reorganisation is a very good example of public service reform in practice where all the agencies are collaborating and good results are being achieved. There is one point of entry and a single website and common forms. There is a much better turnaround. Employers are being notified in a more timely manner. The rights commissioner hearings are happening on demand. I am not saying we have resolved all the issues as many issues remain and there is much work to be done. We are delivering results. The Department and all involved deserve to be complimented on how the project has been dealt with.

The other areas under the remit of the Department include the Office of Corporate Enforcement, the Competition Authority, consumer affairs, the Companies Registration Office, the Registrar of Friendly Societies, the Health and Safety Authority and the Personal Injuries Assessment Board. These bodies do not make daily headlines. When they do appear in the headlines it is often when things are going wrong but they are crucial to ensure the relationships in the marketplace between workers, consumers, those who trade, are executed fairly. This is as important for growth and competitiveness as other activities in the Department. They are crucial in the work for Ireland to become the best small country in the world in which to do business because good working arrangements in these areas are very important. The publication of impact indicators show that good progress is being made and more companies are filing online. We are squeezing out the administrative costs. The Department hit the target of 23% and we will hit the 25% target for 2012. While very intractable disputes continue which are the product of the very difficult environment, the Labour Relations Commission and the various agencies which support employers and workers in dispute resolution are working well. There has been an increase in demand for their services but they continue to deliver a high quality service. In my view, it is a positive story.

I may not have fully answered Deputy Toíbín's question. Three more research centres are planned and I apologise if I did not state this in my initial reply. One centre is for cloud computing and €1.2 million funding was announced by the Minister, Deputy Bruton, in April. There is provision for the learning technologies centre to be established in June this year. It is hoped the financial services centre will also be established this year but some background work still remains to be done. Enterprise Ireland is working on a structure for regional gateways. To be helpful to the Deputy, I suggest he might engage with Enterprise Ireland with regard to his own specific area.

I am afraid the gateways may not solve the problem we have in Meath but we can work on it. I call Deputy O'Dea on the programme C regulation.

I thank the Minister for his presentation. The Minister will be aware of the horrendous delays in accessing hearings before some of those employment rights bodies, particularly for those unfortunate among us who have to live outside Dublin. I know the Minister is restructuring the operation, which is probably wise. I do not know when the restructuring will be in place but I know that the expenditure provided is the same as last year. The outturn last year was €18.16 million and it is €18.2 million for 2012. Regardless of what restructuring or legislation he proposes, he will not solve these backlogs without some extra commitment of resources. The extra commitment of resources might be a lot less in the new restructured and, hopefully, more efficient operation, but I do not think he will be able to clear some of those horrendous backlogs or make any significant impact on them for the same money.

I note a rather curious figure in C7, which deals with the Office of the Director of Corporate Enforcement. In theory, the expenditure looks to be increased by 68% in the year but the provision is only the same as the initial 2011 Estimate. The original Estimate for 2011 was for an expenditure of €3.3 million on current non-pay, whereas only €768,000 was spent. We are back to a figure again of just in excess of €3 million for 2012. Is the explanation associated with the current bank investigation?

The raw figures for the Competition Authority seem deceptive. There have been consistent complaints that the Competition Authority is grossly under-funded for the work it must do. There appears to be an increase of 29% in the funding but nevertheless, the initial funding estimated as being necessary for 2011 was €5.116 million, whereas the actual expenditure was only €3.621 million. What is the explanation?

A previous speaker mentioned the presentation to the committee by Mr. O'Driscoll from Glen Dimplex. I recall Mr. O'Driscoll suggesting that while regulation is necessary, the Department should carry out an audit of the current regulations applicable to industry to see which regulations could be dispensed with or modified and to examine to what extent they affect industrial expansion and growth in the country. Is the Minister disposed to considering that suggestion?

Regulations are like archaeology in that every Government leaves a layer of regulation behind it. I acknowledge that regulation is very important, especially in the area of workers' rights and entitlements. However, there is also the issue of how regulation sits with competitiveness. There seems to be a reduction in the outputs. In 2011, the Health and Safety Authority concluded 15,000 workplace inspections and 13,000 in 2012. Compliance is a significant issue, as is enforcement and it would be great if these were strengthened. I refer to the reduction of the administrative burden on business. Does this burden originate in the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation or is this burden imposed by all elements of central and local government? I ask the Minister to give details of objectives to reduce the administrative burden.

I refer to context and impact indicators in No. 5 which deals with the number of workplace fatalities reported under safety, health and welfare at work. The budget for health and safety appears to have been reduced by 1% but the head count within that section is reduced by 4%. Looking at the figures for 2009, 2010 and 2011, the fatalities were 43, 48 and 55, respectively. Perhaps the Minister can give his views on that, if possible.

I note there is a proposed reduction of €1 million for the workplace relations programme in 2012, which is regrettable in light of the complex redundancy cases that have arisen this year. I wonder if the Minister can clarify or justify that reduction.

As regards the Department's expenditure on international subscriptions, it is proposed that Ireland will spend €14 million on its membership of the European Space Agency. What are the material benefits of that kind of current expenditure?

I have similar questions to Deputy O'Dea regarding the outturn in 2011 compared with the Estimates both for C7, the Director of Corporate Enforcement, and C8, the Competition Authority. Is there any suggestion that those bodies might be merged?

How active is the Competition Authority in advocating legislative change to promote competition? I know the authority is to be invited to appear before the full committee at some future stage. The Competition Authority is funded in order to prevent anti-competitive behaviour. For a number years, the Minister has mentioned that the country has lost much of its competitive advantage. Some of that is based on a range of matters, including energy costs. I am concerned that the level of funding may be insufficient to ensure the authority can function to the best of its ability.

I will start off with Deputy O'Dea's points. He is right to say that there are serious backlogs but in the present situation we are not in a position to provide additional resources. We have to concentrate on getting better efficiencies, and we are doing so. There is a backlog in the Employment Appeals Tribunal of 76 weeks in Dublin and 77 weeks in provincial areas. However, the tribunal disposed of 11% more cases in 2011 than in 2010, so there is a better throughput.

We are trying to reorganise the whole system. The system has tended to be characterised by multiple applications by the same worker across a range of different processes. These tend to rush headlong along the road to an ultimate hearing and an expensive adjudication, and it has become very legalistic. We are trying to have a single point of entry to consolidate the cases into one. We are introducing an early intervention system to head off more of them from going down that route. As the Deputy said, there is little point in having long-delayed hearings and then sometimes the enforcement of the finding is ineffective. We are therefore trying to streamline the whole system. We are optimistic that we will deliver a better service with fewer resources at the end of the reorganisation. It is challenging but we have made real progress. For example, we used to have 36 different forms which have been consolidated into one. People used to put in multiple claims but that has changed. We have got most people to switch to using the online form. We are moving to be able to take everything in electronically, although we have not got to that stage yet. We have a single website and many people have collaborated to deliver a better service. We are getting there and it is a good example of how the Croke Park agreement can work. People will change and try to deliver. There is an enthusiasm to make this work, so I am optimistic.

Deputies O'Dea and Kyne are right concerning the Estimate for the Office of the Director of Corporate Enforcement. It is lower due to potential legal costs which did not arise, and that was a significant instance. The Competition Authority was able to meet moneys from its own resources because a contingent liability in respect of a possible award of legal costs against the authority did not materialise. So in both cases potential legal costs did not arise and so were not drawn down.

Both Deputies raised the issue of the Competition Authority. Competition is one thing, but breaching competition law is different. Breaches of competition law, including cartels and abuses of market dominance, constitute a problem and people regarded Ireland as having insufficiently effective laws in this respect. We have strengthened the enforcement system. We have a criminal system which has its problems. As Deputy O'Dea has often pointed out, the "beyond reasonable doubt" standard is a tough one to reach.

We have assigned additional staff to the Competition Authority so it can take more cases. In the context of the action plan for jobs, I have also asked the authority to examine segments of the market-place where there is insufficient competition, and to undertake studies in those areas. Traditionally, the authority has done a lot of studies on the legal, medical and other professions. Those studies have given the impetus to reform many of those areas. A lot of that reform was long delayed but the arrival of the troika probably gave new impetus to implementing those reforms. We are now seeing a number of reforms being implemented on foot of those reports. I have asked the authority to identify such problems elsewhere and hopefully that will throw up other areas for reform.

I take Deputy O'Dea's point, quoting Seán O'Driscoll, that we need to undertake an audit. As a first step in that regard, the Minister of State, Deputy John Perry, is involved in a process of auditing some of the licensing arrangements. Forfás is working in conjunction with the Minister of State to undertake that work. Hopefully that will throw up work we can build upon.

Like all sections of our Department, the Health and Safety Authority is constrained by declining staff numbers available to it. The HSA has had to focus on core activities and there has been a pull back at some levels on the number of inspections to focus on more risk-based enforcement. Clearly they are looking at the areas which present the greatest challenge. There are certain sectors that have been a source of great problems. They have focused on certain sectors, such as the construction sector in the past and farming at present. They have also tried to bring in new ways of helping business to be more compliant without inspections. Many members of the sub-committee will have heard their advertisements on the radio this morning, promoting the Be Smart self-help tool for small businesses to electronically approve their own compliance, rather than waiting for big brother to carry out inspections. That has been successful and it is part of the way in which we have reduced the administrative burden.

Deputy Tóibín is right in saying that there is a wider issue than the administrative burden in our Department. The same reduction target of 25% applies to all other Departments. We pioneered a way of measuring the burden, which is being rolled out across other Departments. They are undertaking that measurement function to see how far they have got. Some Departments have gone very far. Revenue is a good example and I believe it has already hit and surpassed the 25% reduction. The task is to identify if we have achieved that target which was set for all Departments and, if not, to take steps to deliver it. That process is under way.

Deputy Conaghan asked why are we reducing numbers in areas. Our obligation is to achieve more with less and that is the reason we are reducing numbers in areas such as those dealing with various worker rights, employment rights and industrial relations. We are being squeezed by the employment numbers that apply throughout the public service and we must seek to deliver more with less. We are trying to reform the system to ensure people are not trapped in one that is somewhat dysfunctional, as the existing system was. It had become too legalistic and had broken away from its original heritage of being a simple, easy to use system, but we are getting back to that.

I will pass the question on the European Space Agency to the Minister of State, Deputy Sherlock. I know from having met people that we get a good deal of business out of our membership of it. I would say the Minister of State has chapter and verse on that, or I hope I am not passing him a hospital pass on that one. I have answered the list of questions I have as I answered Deputy Kyne's questions already. Is the Minister of State in a position to respond to the question on the European Space Agency?

The European Space Agency is a hardy perennial. Approximately 22 Irish companies and at least 12 research groups are involved in space-related activities. In terms of our investment of €14.779 million in the agency, research carried out in 2008 showed that the financial investment to the economy of our investment of approximately €13.5 million in the agency in 2007 was approximately €21 million in foreign investment. In a recent survey of 30 companies involved with the European Space Agency there were 19 respondents which reported growth increased in value terms from €51 million in 2008 to €71 million in 2010 and they project it will increase by up to €168 million by 2014.

I can name two companies in this area with which I am familiar, Radisens Diagnostics and TreeMetrics. They are both start-up companies effectively, but Radisens Diagnostics is funded by the European Space Agency. It develops a point-of-care bloodtesting device and it will be used in the International Space Station. The fact that its diagnostic device is being used in the final frontier has a beneficial impact because if it is rubber-stamped up there, the company will see a massive growth in its sales potential. It will benefit from the kudos attached to the use of its device there. While I would have been among the sceptics in questioning the value of our membership at the beginning, there is a qualitative impact from the spend of approximately €14.7 million in terms of the number of jobs it creates. The number employed in Radisens Diagnostics will increase from 13 to approximately 35 in 2013. One can imagine the impact on the economy of the creation of 35 jobs. I, our Department and the Government believe that the spend is worth it because there is a return to the domestic economy.

TreeMetrics is in the business of forest inventory management and it is developing new overseas markets. As a result of it getting a grant from the European Space Agency, it projects the number it will employ in 2012 will be €16 million or 16 people. It also works with Coillte.

Having heard that figure, we can now go home.

The members are all still awake at this stage. The net point is that while membership of the European Space Agency might seem to be something that is quite esoteric and one might wonder why we should invest in it, the proof of the pudding is that it is generating jobs in the Irish economy. It is helping Irish companies to grow their businesses, their output is increasing in monetary terms, and they are creating new jobs. That is the bottom line. We have to go by the 2007 figures, which are the latest ones I have available. For a spend of €13.5 million in 2007, we had a return of €21 million. Those are the most recent figures I have but we will try to get more up-to-date figures.

Deputy O'Dea is offering. Does he wish to welcome that projected increase in the number of jobs that will be created?

It would mean that only 1 million people would be left unemployed in the whole of Europe.

Initially I would like to return to planet earth. I have two questions for the Minister. On what area did the office of corporate enforcement expect to spend €2.5 million last year that it did not get to spend? The Minister mentioned that the Competition Authority has taken on extra staff. Its increased provision for pay is only approximately €45,000. How many staff did it take on?

The position in regard to the ODCE is that there was a saving of €2.3 million. It is a contingency for legal costs that is built into the budget each year. It is a provision that is made every year; it is not related to a particular case.

The position in regard to the Competition Authority is that I have only recently sanctioned additional employment numbers as a result of a review that was undertaken of competition enforcement. This revenue does not reflect that decision.

How many people have been taken on?

If there are no further questions, we will move on to concluding remarks. Do the Ministers have anything further to add?

I thank the Deputies for their indulgence and their worthwhile contributions. As I and others have said, this is a work in progress. We are happy to take on board any suggestions that are put forward. We are engaged in meeting businesses around the country and getting feedback on what we are doing and what needs to be done. We will shortly frame proposals for 2013 and we will be delighted to receive contributions.

I thank the Minister and his officials. I am glad to hear him say that constructive suggestions will be taken on board, and we will submit those.

That concludes the select sub-committee's consideration of 2012 Revised Estimates for public services: Vote 32 - Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation for the year ending 31 December 2012. I thank the Minister, Deputy Bruton, the Minister of State, Deputy Perry, the Minister of State, Deputy Sherlock, and the Department officials for attending today.

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